RE: Forced Bi? (Full Version)

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Icarys -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 1:41:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

Yeah I've always had an issue with the term forced in a consensual relationship. Until we bring back actual slavery to the law books or as you put it..Threaten a life..I've gotta laugh when I see that term used in this arena.

While debating the linguistic applicability of the term brings up a valid point (that many 'forced' elements of BDSM play are not actually possible unless there was specifically a lack of consent), I find that following it up by "laughing" rather than engaging the whys on the issue is an apathetic and passively harassing way to respond.

And then, to figuratively raise one hands abruptly in a show of non-guilt for making a comment you knew was coupled with an underlying jab when the person it's directed to becomes bothered by it is awfully disingenuous.

There are logically flimsy things that everyone believes in. I suspect, for instance, me snickering at someone wholeheartedly espousing the concept of a spiritual afterlife (in a thread that a believer has started to get feedback on it, no less) would be met in a much different manner.


Actually my laughing wasn't at anyone or anything other than the irony I find in so many things..I find that same irony in almost everything to do with bdsm.. I will admit to toying with the situation a bit when i saw the reaction or at least the perceived reaction to my first comments. I made my initial comment without reading a single post other than Aylees.

Yeah I probably shouldn't have laughed in the sentence but I wasn't making fun of anyone, only chuckling at the concept of forced anything in this arena.

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that I was raising my hands figuratively in a show of non-guilt?




Icarys -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 1:49:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

if you got your feathers ruffled because someone laughed at something you like...suck it up.

I don't recall this being emblematic of the attitude I remember you having at all.


What else can you do other than suck it up. I suppose you could argue it but in the end..you will suck it up.[:D]

I get your point though. I probably need more rest.




NihilusZero -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 1:50:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that I was raising my hands figuratively in a show of non-guilt?

I meant it seemed like you were being intentionally unaware of how the reaction could easily be upsetting (granted, I figured it because I know you and am aware of the insight you have).

Meh. Perhaps my comments were a bit overly sensitive. I suppose in my head I thought that it's enough to have the usual prodding that goes on in the fora without some of the genuinely cool people doing it to.

Neo.

[:D]




NihilusZero -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 1:52:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

I suppose you could argue it but in the end..you will suck it up.[:D]

Geez! If you had read the OP, he had already admitted to wanting to 'suck it up'.




*badum...chiiiiissssh!*

(Apologies to G&G if the intentionally cheese joke is in bad taste...)




Icarys -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 1:54:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that I was raising my hands figuratively in a show of non-guilt?

I meant it seemed like you were being intentionally unaware of how the reaction could easily be upsetting (granted, I figured it because I know you and am aware of the insight you have).

Meh. Perhaps my comments were a bit overly sensitive. I suppose in my head I thought that it's enough to have the usual prodding that goes on in the fora without some of the genuinely cool people doing it to.

Neo.

[:D]



It's not something I usually do but even Neo wasn't able to dodge every bullet.[:D]




Icarys -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 1:55:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

I suppose you could argue it but in the end..you will suck it up.[:D]

Geez! If you had read the OP, he had already admitted to wanting to 'suck it up'.




*badum...chiiiiissssh!*

(Apologies to G&G if the intentionally cheese joke is in bad taste...)


lol




LadyAngelika -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 4:15:37 AM)

Nevermind. I didn't read the following posts.

I love seeing NZ and "Neo" work it all out :-) Such gentlemen!

- LA




LadyPact -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 7:28:57 AM)

To answer your earlier question, GiveandGive, yes, a lot of threads around here end up just like this.  LOL.

The thing is, you hit on something of a paradox in relation to the BDSM world.  The word 'forced' when connected with any kind of play is going to run the whole gamut of everything from how hot it is because it *feels like* a scene is against someone's will to if you want it, whatever it was really wasn't really forced, back to, yeah, but it's hot to feel that way.  If it was really forced, it wasn't consensual, and everything in BDSM is based on consent, even non consensual play, and yadda, yadda, yadda.  It's one of those circular things that never seems to have a beginning or an end.




urscute6969 -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 8:21:01 AM)

it has been done to me by my Mistress, and yes it was during cuckolding, yes it was painful for me at first because I do Love my Mistress more than my own life. I was ordered to lick and suck him as well as service her orally during and after. Now to simply say you are not into cuckolding without experiencing it is to say the least robbing you of an experience in life and the lifestyle.

Remember that it is not about you it is about serving your Mistress so it is about her.

there is nothing that I will not do for my Mistress!

oh an btw even if I will always desire to be her slave as well as her lover and the pain of watching another fuck her and my being denied that honor, it was very errotic to be a part of.

before You dismiss this try it, then make up Your mind

and as someone said above there is no gun to your head, but if you are truly wanting to serve your Mistress the gun to your head is the desire to please her so you will never be deemed useless to her.

PofMJ




GiveandGive -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 11:04:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

To answer your earlier question, GiveandGive, yes, a lot of threads around here end up just like this.  LOL.

The thing is, you hit on something of a paradox in relation to the BDSM world.  The word 'forced' when connected with any kind of play is going to run the whole gamut of everything from how hot it is because it *feels like* a scene is against someone's will to if you want it, whatever it was really wasn't really forced, back to, yeah, but it's hot to feel that way.  If it was really forced, it wasn't consensual, and everything in BDSM is based on consent, even non consensual play, and yadda, yadda, yadda.  It's one of those circular things that never seems to have a beginning or an end.



The only problem is that everyone knows exactly what is meant by 'forced', and they're just arguing semantics. I've met dozens of people like this in person, and every one of them has a false sense of superiority. Now, I'm not saying that's what Mr. Anderson has, but seeing as how his avatar is modeled after a character prophesied to be Christ, I'm led to believe so.




GiveandGive -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 11:10:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: urscute6969

it has been done to me by my Mistress, and yes it was during cuckolding, yes it was painful for me at first because I do Love my Mistress more than my own life. I was ordered to lick and suck him as well as service her orally during and after. Now to simply say you are not into cuckolding without experiencing it is to say the least robbing you of an experience in life and the lifestyle.

Remember that it is not about you it is about serving your Mistress so it is about her.

there is nothing that I will not do for my Mistress!

oh an btw even if I will always desire to be her slave as well as her lover and the pain of watching another fuck her and my being denied that honor, it was very errotic to be a part of.

before You dismiss this try it, then make up Your mind

and as someone said above there is no gun to your head, but if you are truly wanting to serve your Mistress the gun to your head is the desire to please her so you will never be deemed useless to her.

PofMJ


We're not in a full time dom/sub relationship, it's more of just a kink/roleplay to us at this point. So if she tried to do that with me, I would break up with her. Nothing against you or your experiences, but in our relationship, I'm not willing to accept that level of disrespect.




urscute6969 -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 11:17:09 AM)

Understood and thank you for replying.

if i was to guess and i may be wrong You are leaning more to the Dominate side than the submissive side. I would follow what Your heart is telling You always and by all means never do what You do not want to do.

for myself my Mistress is my Life and to tell You the truth only She will be able to Dominate me and no other. inside every submissive is a dominate lol heard that said one time wonder if that is true.

Have Fun and stay sane

PofMJ




GiveandGive -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 11:33:19 AM)

quote:

ning more to the Dominate side than the submissive side. I would follow what Your heart is telling You always and by all means never do what You do not want to do.
quote:

ORIGINAL: urscute6969

Understood and thank you for replying.

if i was to guess and i may be wrong You are leaning more to the Dominate side than the submissive side. I would follow what Your heart is telling You always and by all means never do what You do not want to do.

for myself my Mistress is my Life and to tell You the truth only She will be able to Dominate me and no other. inside every submissive is a dominate lol heard that said one time wonder if that is true.

Have Fun and stay sane

PofMJ


We kind of take turns every now and again. Usually I'm more comfortable being submissive, but every now and again she wants me to control her.




heartcream -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 11:35:16 AM)

quote:

There are logically flimsy things that everyone believes in. I suspect, for instance, me snickering at someone wholeheartedly espousing the concept of a spiritual afterlife (in a thread that a believer has started to get feedback on it, no less) would be met in a much different manner.


Huh? I thought you were the Hall monitor, or is that in only certain hallowed halls? Did you really just say that? Everyone? There are logically flimsy things everyone believes in?

I have seen you chew out someone for making jokes, and all the many things you get up in arms about and yet each and everything you seemingly champion I have seen you indulge in. It is all surrounded with your frilly vocabulary and Mehs. Do you see that? You arent the only one that does this. There is at least another poster who gets all itchy about someone disagreeing with another poster and defending them and their rights and then go into another thread and shut the thing down with what bullshit they think the topic, pov is. How superior they think their pov is leaking all over the place and it nauseates me.




ElanSubdued -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 12:43:08 PM)

quote:

urscute6969 to GiveandGive:

it has been done to me by my Mistress, and yes it was during cuckolding, yes it was painful for me at first because I do Love my Mistress more than my own life.  I was ordered to lick and suck him as well as service her orally during and after.  Now to simply say you are not into cuckolding without experiencing it is to say the least robbing you of an experience in life and the lifestyle.

Remember that it is not about you it is about serving your Mistress so it is about her.

there is nothing that I will not do for my Mistress!

oh an btw even if I will always desire to be her slave as well as her lover and the pain of watching another fuck her and my being denied that honor, it was very erotic to be a part of.

before You dismiss this try it, then make up Your mind

and as someone said above there is no gun to your head, but if you are truly wanting to serve your Mistress the gun to your head is the desire to please her so you will never be deemed useless to her.


Here's another perspective.

If someone wants to try cuckolding, that's fine, but this doesn't mean those who don't are somehow being robbed of life experience essential to the BDSM lifestyle.  Likewise, those not into cuckolding aren't dishonoring their dominants or becoming useless to their dominants.  I'm a big advocate of "never say never".  In other words, activities that may seem strange or things you might never want to do, later on, with more experience and an appropriate partner, can sometimes become things you're curious about trying and/or that actually become favourite activities.  This said, you know yourself better than anyone.  If you don't want to do something, don't do it.  If an activity is so important to your partner that this becomes a deal breaker, so be it.  That's a compatibility problem in the sense the partners want different things.  It *does not* mean one partner is lesser than the other or useless to the other.

The notion "remember that it is not about you, it is about serving your Mistress so it is about her" is great fantasy fodder and that's about it.  Effective dominants recognize that while they may make decisions in their relationships and they may make decisions about a host of other things too, this doesn't mean they always get their way.  Whether a BDSM interaction represents a singular play date, partners who play together regularly, a long-term relationship, or something else, the interaction is effected by all people involved.  To be workable, the interaction must reasonably address the needs and preferences of all involved, even if a given need is to have ones' own preferences circumvented.  In truth, while it may be hot to have ones' needs momentarily ignored or overridden, I've yet to meet anyone who enjoys this over continued, longer periods.  Thus, as vanilla as this may sound, BDSM relationships involve plenty of compromise, patience, and communication.

In the cuckolding example (assuming both partners don't feel the same), compromises might involve the partners agreeing cuckolding won't be part of the relationship, more discussion and learning between the partners, the partners agreeing to try cuckolding for an evening (likely with specific limits and stop procedures in place), the partners agreeing the dominant's desire overrules and thus the submissive will simply deal with the emotions of being cuckolded when they don't wish to be, and a myriad of other solutions.  I'm not going to recommend one solution over another although I do know certain approaches would work better for me than others.  One thing is pretty much certain though.  Regardless of the route taken, the partners will deal with the impact (positive or negative) on their relationship.  Dogma the ilk of "my way of the highway" or, reciprocally, "I live only to serve you Dominant One; you can do anything you want" isn't that helpful in dealing with complex desires and feelings between partners.  As conflict resolution mechanisms, in my experience, these kinds of absolutes are only workable in an extremely limited number of situations.  When invoked inappropriately, they bring about resentment and create more problems rather than resolving anything.

quote:

GiveandGive to urscute6969:

We're not in a full time dom/sub relationship, it's more of just a kink/roleplay to us at this point.  So if she tried to do that with me, I would break up with her.  Nothing against you or your experiences, but in our relationship, I'm not willing to accept that level of disrespect.


This underlines a key aspect of what I wrote above.  Regardless of the route taken, the partners will deal with the impact (positive or negative) on their relationship.

Elan.




domiguy -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 2:11:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

GiveandGive,

quote:

105, not 120.  She's never been above 110 in her life.  Doesn't have an account here.  Here's a photo of us from last summer.  (URL removed.)


If you don't have your partner's permission to post this photo, you should remove it immediately.  This is a personally identifiable photograph that could cause problems for your girlfriend.  Personally identifiable or not though, it is totally unethical to post something like this without permission.  If you can't remove the picture because your post is now locked, you can do two things:  (1) contact VideoAdminAlpha to have the link removed;  (2) remove the picture from the source server.

Elan.



quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

Domiguy,

Good Lord.  You continue to demonstrate such misogynistic and, for that matter, utterly misanthropistic views.  Your vile language and continued insults (directed at Lady Angelika and dommes in general) make anything you say hard to take with any seriousness.

Elan.



Listen up sweet britches and maybe you will learn something....

Your first post above was just another indicator of the severe case of dommetitis that you are currently suffering from. dommetitis can only be cured by three treatments ranging from 60 to 90 minutes in length of robust Domidong sucking.  These treatments would prevent you and your ilk from suffering the embassing symptoms and prevent the complete bullshit and tripe that seems to continuously dribble out of your pie hole.

You post could not be more wrong.  It proves that the dommetits has reached your brain and has impeded your ability to reach a logical conclusion. 

A domme is a horrible thing to waste.

I can post any pic I want out here as long as it does not violate tos. 

So all of you subs who have forwarded gash and tit shots I believe that the threat level of exposure has reached "orange."  I do not need your consent to post those pics.  They are mine I'll do whatever in the fuck I want with them.

Might be time you say some fairly fucking nice things about me whether heart felt or not.

So elan,  don't get a pair of your panties or a parachute all up in a bundle...Relax. You are obviously severely compromised from your battle with dommetitis and you should get some rest before you make yourself look like more of a silly lil gurl.

The symptoms of dommetitis do tend to manifest themselves in the victim by a "know it all" posting style, a lust for rich and unhealthy fast foods, followed by a horrendous weight gain.

Like so many others, the Domidong is your only road to salvation.

elan, who hurt you?

Come to Domiguy.





GiveandGive -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 2:18:24 PM)

quote:



So all of you subs who have forwarded gash and tit shots I believe that the threat level of exposure has reached "orange."


Okay, that got me. That was really funny.




domiguy -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 2:35:19 PM)

Kid, you got chutzpah.

Don't let these bossy dommes bring ya down.  The majority of them are a complete buzzkill.

Poor little subbies.  My heart weeps for their plight and the suffering that they must undertake at the beefy hands of these ill tempered dommes.

Anywhooooo son,  I call you son, only cuz I'z old enough to be your pa.  Of course there ain't no fuckin' way, that no fuckin son O' mine is going to come out here and start some damned dick sucking thread.  Only because he is too busy dedicated to his work as a botanist.

Boy, get your groove on. When your 5'1" 105 lb piece O' fuck meat tires of your wanton cum slurping agenda, which she will.  You send her on over to Chitown and I'll give her a welcome that she will not soon forget.

God bless you both....You are doing the Lord's work.

your pa.




Rochsub2009 -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 3:35:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

The thing is, you hit on something of a paradox in relation to the BDSM world.  The word 'forced' when connected with any kind of play is going to run the whole gamut of everything from how hot it is because it *feels like* a scene is against someone's will to if you want it, whatever it was really wasn't really forced, back to, yeah, but it's hot to feel that way.  If it was really forced, it wasn't consensual, and everything in BDSM is based on consent, even non consensual play, and yadda, yadda, yadda.  It's one of those circular things that never seems to have a beginning or an end.



Thanks LadyPact.  You beat me to the punch.  i agree with you completely.

Personally, i enjoy many "forced" activities.  Is it truly forced?  Well, not completely.  After all, i have the ability to refuse the command.  But what it actually does is giving the person being "forced" the opportunity to expand beyond their comfort zone.  Sure, if we want to be completely literal, it isn't forced.  But why be so literal?

i love forced scenes.  As strange as it may seem, there are many activities that i don't particularly enjoy that i LOVE when they are forced. 

i'm no psychologist, so i can't explain why this apparent contradiction is so.  i just know that it is so.




NihilusZero -> RE: Forced Bi? (2/2/2010 5:21:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

quote:

There are logically flimsy things that everyone believes in. I suspect, for instance, me snickering at someone wholeheartedly espousing the concept of a spiritual afterlife (in a thread that a believer has started to get feedback on it, no less) would be met in a much different manner.


Huh? I thought you were the Hall monitor, or is that in only certain hallowed halls? Did you really just say that? Everyone? There are logically flimsy things everyone believes in?

I'm not sure what your contention here is. My wording actually was improper, though. It should have worded instead as:

Everyone has something logically flimsy they believe in.

Like love or an afterlife or alien anal probing or boy bands. Now, perhaps you find it upsetting because you think that I'm saying that logically flimsy things cannot also be of particular value to someone (which I'm not). The point is everyone has something idealistic (if not unrealistic) they hold to, so the act of mocking someone else for their version of it is normally a hypocritical thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

I have seen you chew out someone for making jokes, and all the many things you get up in arms about and yet each and everything you seemingly champion I have seen you indulge in.

Yes, I made a joke here. I made a joke about something the OP clearly is not embarrassed about (which I took a moment to address anyhow, just in case) and it was a whimsical play on words intended to lighten the mood of the thread and my conversation with Icarys.

There is a marketed difference between jokes that everyone can join in on and enjoy and jokes that are at the expense of putting someone else down.

Where have you seen me indulge in the latter?

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

It is all surrounded with your frilly vocabulary and Mehs. Do you see that?

Are you talking about this thread? Because Icarys and I have historically gotten along fantastically and my comments to him here were in that context.

My "Meh" here was actually an honest self-sit-down of sorts because I did feel I was a bit too dry in my addressing his comments and I wanted to reassure him that there was no ill will behind my words but just a sincere critique. From his reaction, I'd say he thinks that was the case.

But, again, if this is relevant to some other post(s) of mine elsewhere, I'd be interested in knowing which.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

You arent the only one that does this. There is at least another poster who gets all itchy about someone disagreeing with another poster and defending them and their rights and then go into another thread and shut the thing down with what bullshit they think the topic, pov is.

Icarys himself responded here in a way that indicated he realized that "laughing" was a bit rude, despite the fact that I know that's not his modus operandi at all. Are you able to see that I'm not picking at his words because they are disagreements but because they are of a dismissive nature?

If, instead of responding to your concerns here with a direct and non-confrontational tone, I was replying with snarky rolleyes smileys or subtle jokes...how would you feel? How would you feel if I was doing that to you in a thread you'd started in order to talk about something personal to you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

How superior they think their pov is leaking all over the place and it nauseates me.

Tact, civility, friendliness, and following the fora rules nauseate you?




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