RE: Assisted Sucide (Full Version)

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sexyred1 -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 8:46:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz

One could always write up a living will while in their sane mind. In such a will add to it that if euthanasia or some form of euthanasia becomes available and they suffer any conditions that warrant euthanasia that their life be ended peacefully. That would be far safer than relying on others to make decisions for oneself.

I am all for death with dignity. For the person suffering, and even their family, it allows the pain to end. Financially, it relieves the burden of expensive ongoing medical bills from taxpayers and the family if the one suffering has no insurance. Some people may think it's terrible to suggest ending one's life due to medical expenses (and I would agree if that were the sole reason). In my opinion, if I were suffering a terminal illness I'd rather my life be ended than for my children, grandchildren, s/o or anyone else be burdened with the medical costs of keeping me alive long after my natural death.

EFT


I agree wholeheartedly. I find that when you even try to discuss death, or suicide people freak out, especially friends and family. Therefore it would be imperative for one to ensure their wishes are met despite the emotional decisions that may be made by others.




lazarus1983 -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 8:55:52 AM)

Topics like these are always very weird to me. Because the people debating it are 90% of the time just presuming, looking at the situation from a distance. What we're debating isn't happening to us, and so it ends up being, "I think those people should/shouldn't because of how I feel." Seems a bit backwards to me.

Now if that were happening to me, I'd be the first to pull the plug on myself if I could reach it from my hospital bed. And if not, I'd spend my dying days constructing some kind of MacGuyver-like grabbing instrument.




Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 9:24:37 AM)

I don't know if 90% of the people are looking at this from a distance, focusing on other's choices. Personally, I was looking at it from "if it happened to me". That is not looking at it from a distance. That is looking at it from within, close up, and personal. Quite honestly, I believe most people who debate this issue are focusing on their own personal feelings of 'if it happened to me".

Edited for clarity. It's too early.




Rule -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 9:48:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
Thank you for sharing the BBC link.  "It seems sensible to me that we should look to the medical profession, that over the centuries has helped us to live longer and healthier lives, to help us die peacefully among our loved ones in our own home without a long stay in God's waiting room," Sir Terry said."  He does have a point. 

I strongly disagree. I think that people that are dedicated to cure medical problems and to care for people, ought never to be responsible for terminating the life of a person. That causes conflicts of interest. Especially since I know that many physicians are psychopaths that would enjoy such murders. (Harold Shipman was a prime example of such psychopathic physicians.)

In my opinion killing people ought to be the privilege of people who are dedicated to killing people, like soldiers and psychopaths that are not in a medical profession.




sexyred1 -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 10:05:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Topics like these are always very weird to me. Because the people debating it are 90% of the time just presuming, looking at the situation from a distance. What we're debating isn't happening to us, and so it ends up being, "I think those people should/shouldn't because of how I feel." Seems a bit backwards to me.

Now if that were happening to me, I'd be the first to pull the plug on myself if I could reach it from my hospital bed. And if not, I'd spend my dying days constructing some kind of MacGuyver-like grabbing instrument.



No, I am answering from my own close up view, not from a distance. Let us know if you patent the MacGuyver thingie. ;)




CarrieO -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 10:07:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
Thank you for sharing the BBC link.  "It seems sensible to me that we should look to the medical profession, that over the centuries has helped us to live longer and healthier lives, to help us die peacefully among our loved ones in our own home without a long stay in God's waiting room," Sir Terry said."  He does have a point. 

I strongly disagree. I think that people that are dedicated to cure medical problems and to care for people, ought never to be responsible for terminating the life of a person. That causes conflicts of interest. Especially since I know that many physicians are psychopaths that would enjoy such murders. (Harold Shipman was a prime example of such psychopathic physicians.)

In my opinion killing people ought to be the privilege of people who are dedicated to killing people, like soldiers and psychopaths that are not in a medical profession.


You're aware I was quoting a statement from the link posted in the OP.  I'm not sure who it is you're strongly disagreeing with...me or Sir Terry (who made the statement I quoted)...but if you had added the rest of my words, it might make more sense.  I was simply saying he had a point and I'll be curious to see how it turns out. 

Your last statement concerning those who should have the "privilege" of "killing people" just leaves me shaking my head and pleased that we can agree to disagree.




Rule -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 10:27:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
Your last statement concerning those who should have the "privilege" of "killing people" just leaves me shaking my head and pleased that we can agree to disagree.

Psychopaths of the Earth: "Vote for me!" Anybody who does not want to be forced to kill another human, vote for me too, for if CarrieO has her way those most suited for the job will be forced to stand idle while those most unsuited for the job and most at risk of being psychologically harmed by it, will be forced by her to kill other people. Is that a correct interpretation of the inhumane consequences of what you said, or did I not quite get what you were saying?




kdsub -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 10:38:47 AM)

I am for assisted suicide by sedation but only with strict rules on who and how it is decided.

I could see greedy relatives or anyone that would benefit by the persons death to convince someone to end their life…only for their personal gain.

It would be easy to convince people in pain or suffering or from loss of mental facilities and reasoning.

I think it first should be spelled out in advance in a living will.

Then it should take the diagnoses of three accredited doctors of a specialty familiar with the patients illness stating this person is terminal and in their opinion has less than 6 months to live.

I believe maybemaybenot has the right option…Sedating someone to stop pain even if it kills them is the way to go. It would relieve pain of the suffering, save the life savings that are often used up in the last six months of care and also satisfy may religions opposed to actual suicide.

Butch




LaTigresse -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 11:08:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Topics like these are always very weird to me. Because the people debating it are 90% of the time just presuming, looking at the situation from a distance. What we're debating isn't happening to us, and so it ends up being, "I think those people should/shouldn't because of how I feel." Seems a bit backwards to me.

Now if that were happening to me, I'd be the first to pull the plug on myself if I could reach it from my hospital bed. And if not, I'd spend my dying days constructing some kind of MacGuyver-like grabbing instrument.


Your response is very weird to me. I believe most of the people replying to this thread are speaking from the heart based upon very personal experiences. I also believe that we are not debating what anyone else should or should not do, only what we hope to have the ability/freedom to do for ourselves and those that love us.

I don't know about your world, but in mine, I've seen too many elderly that did not plan for their last days. They put that burden on those that loved them.

I've got two people in my extended family that are still suffering the guilt of their mother's death. Even though the woman was well into her 80's before she became ill, she pretended she was going to just die peacefully in her sleep one night. As with most, that was not the case. She has an odd neurological disorder that slowly robbed her of her speech and fine motor skills, then over a period of time all ability to care for herself or communicate.

Her daughter spent tens of thousands of dollars to care for her mother in her own home. Giving herself a stroke because her brother was too freaked by his mother's condition to visit or assist.

After the daughter had her stroke, they resigned themselves to putting the old woman in the best care facility possible. Depleting the old woman's fortune. Everyone avoided, put off, visiting. Sitting and holding the hand of a crying old woman that couldn't communicate why she was crying.

Her final days were spent screaming, open mouthed and hollow eyed, in pain, until she was so sedated she slowed faded away. That woman's last few years of life were of no joy to her, or to those that loved her. Her last two weeks of life cost several hundred thousand dollars of intensive care and private nursing. All because she was selfish and made ZERO plans for her end days. Her son is spending his retirement drinking himself to death and her daughter is avoiding all family functions that remind her of her mother and spending her own retirement gambling her life savings away. All because of guilt and inability to deal with their mother's death.

That family has always been totally freaked about death and dying. I have watched for twenty years what that old woman and her views about the loss her her first husband decades ago, her son decades ago, her second husband a few years before her death and then her own illness and death, did to them.

I will do everything in my power to avoid doing the same to the people I love.




Rule -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 2:01:30 PM)

FR

Pratchett will be on BBC2 after the news tonight. I am going to watch his plea.




LillyoftheVally -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 2:20:17 PM)

In theory I am very much for it, implementation is less than easy though. I have worked with dying people, I have been asked to put a pillow over someones face, it is one of the most heatbreaking things you can hear. The worst was a woman, a nun, who suffered so badly at the end, she grabbed my hand and asked what if she was wrong and there was no god, she begged for someone to end it for her, of course in that instance it was not ever going to be something that was viable, it was such a twist of character. But then who is best placed to decide what is or isnt in character? Often the family are the worst people to ask, they can and often do have such a distorted view of their relatives, someone mentioned dementia but then you would have to know well in advance before it takes hold which is rare in many forms of dementia. Deciding where the line should be is hard, deciding who gets to decide is just as hard.

There is a woman where I worked, she has severe dementia, she doesn't speak, she can't move, she has to be fed, she used to be a fashion designer a very bright interesting woman. Last year she got pneumonia and the doctors did everything they could to make her better just so she could reach a hundred, many of the carers believed that they should have let her go at that point, that to resuscitate her was almost cruel.

The thing is that it is so often objective.

I have spoke about what I want when I die, all my family know what my wishes are, I believe it is true what was said earlier that we are so afraid of death or that it is simply not nice to talk about it that we don't when we are best placed to.




domiguy -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 2:46:12 PM)

There are plenty of people that I would be willing to assist in their suicide....Unfortunately, I am not sure if they are aware of it or have even contemplated it.




Rule -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 3:06:48 PM)

FR

Pratchett's speech is incredible! He spoke briefly himself and then his speech was given by his friend the actor Tony Robinson (Baldric), who functions as a stunt-Pratchett and who apparently has memorized the entire speech! He is still speaking.




Rule -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 3:26:42 PM)

It was the Richard Dimbleby lecture. Download it if you can. (Presumably tomorrow?)




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 4:24:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc
I was wondering how people felt about assisted suicide?

Necessary evil sometimes.
quote:


Would you commit it?

Yes, given certain circumstances.
quote:


Would you ask someone to commit it?

It's unfair to do so.

When comes the next question relating to legalisation for assisted suicide for those without terminal illness, but with endless suffering? Why under any circumstances convince someone that they must remain alive if they've given it enough thought and decided they want to die, it's patronising. It's one of those situations where someone wants a person to see the potential of their life in terms of the way the other person sees theirs, we are told in life to make our own choices and be individuals but for one of the biggest choices we are told we must be wrong, it’s nonsense that mentality.




kiwisub12 -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/1/2010 5:25:50 PM)

Very early in my nursing career, i cared for a woman who had metastatic bone cancer - and fractured her femur in such a way that it couldn't be operated on or stabilised. She spent her last months in hospital in skeletal traction. And when she came close to death, i with no hesitation, gave her such dosages of morphine as to relieve her pain, even though i knew it would suppress her breathing.

A lot of these debates have people who have never seen someone dying in pain jumping up and down. Perhaps if they had they would be a little more compassionate. Its easy to catagorically state that something is wrong regardless of circumstances if you don't have to face the people in said circumstances every day. I'm not in favour of government controlled medical anything, but suicide assistance, or terminal pain killing isn't something that government needs to get into.

This needs to be under the pervay of ethics committees.

and my Sir has metastatic bladder cancer.He isn't going to be cured, and we know this. We have talked about what is going to happen when he is dying, and dead, and it is very clear. Its not a hypothetical situation - it is the life that we are living together. It isn't going to be right for everyone - but it is right for us.





Termyn8or -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/2/2010 12:21:15 AM)

DO NOT RESUCCITATE
GIVE NO BLOOD

Where do I get one of those bracelets ? I wear no jewelry, but I will make an exception for that.

I would throw you a paragraph or two about his but most will just let it roll off their backs and not have a thing to say about it, so why bother ?

If it is my life, it is my life to end, and if I am vulnerable and someone kills me, that is my problem. Life is not as precious as people are mesmerised into thinking.

And that my friends is why Men like me are so fucking dangerous. Once you no longer fear death, you are ........... I have no proper word for it.

T




GreedyTop -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/2/2010 12:43:50 AM)

~FR~

My Mom has a DNR in place.  Would I honor that? Yes.  Would I encourage her to suicide?  FUCK NO.  BUT.. I truly believe that her choice for a dignified death should be followed, as much as it would kill me.. My Mom has always made decisions about her life, why should I take away her choice for death?

If I tried, I would see it as dishonoring her... and I am not willing or able to do that.




Termyn8or -> RE: Assisted Sucide (2/2/2010 1:12:51 AM)

GT, you are so eloquent at times.

Now instead of me talking about my end of life, I am thinking about Mom. Dad died in May, and she has her problems. She has never given a DNR order or anything like that. She worked all her life, finally retired and by the skin of her teeth did not get her retirement wiped out by the "crisis". She deseves every minute she can enjoy now.

But if it were different I would have no right to continue her torture by force, I'll load and cock the gun, or push the plunger in the syringe, whatever.

And there is another point, if you care one shit about your Parents, you will strive to never let them see you die. You see, you will see them die, that is the natural order of things, when they see you die it is not, and it is devastating beyond belief, even beyond my imagination, and that is saying something.

Be well.

T




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