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RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 12:23:29 PM

devilwntdown

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/25/2006
Status: offline

right on amayos, i would have to agree to that as well. we as humans wouldnt exist if it were not for us being sexual to some point. one can be sexual with out having sex. i really dont understand how people come to the conclusion in this way of life that somewhere along the line it is not about sex. if you just want someone to clean your house or wipe your ass, quit being lazy, do it yourself or get a maid. just because someone doesnt take their clothes off, doesnt automaticaly make it not sexual. if in fact at some point it doesnt become sexual, your in it for the wrong reason, the way i see it anyway. what would be the point of someone giving themselves to me, mind, body and spirit, if i cant do as i wish with them. one who does not accept their own sexual needs, is to some point, a slave to themselves.

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 21

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 12:37:12 PM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Likewise, there are a lot of women and girls who post here as Dominants (and submissives), who in turn display an immense ignorance of theory and practice about BDSM in general, using the forum as nothing more than a means to pick up an overglorified boyfriend. I find it ironic that a $$$ ProDomme $$$ would be so willing to throw stones in this regard, when one really starts to consider what many would no doubt call her 'often less than authentic motive in the practice'.

God it is tiresome. I knew I shouldn't have come here in a depressed mood --- looking at her profile is enough to tip one over the edge.

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 22

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 12:51:35 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilwntdown

right on amayos, i would have to agree to that as well. we as humans wouldnt exist if it were not for us being sexual to some point. one can be sexual with out having sex. i really dont understand how people come to the conclusion in this way of life that somewhere along the line it is not about sex. if you just want someone to clean your house or wipe your ass, quit being lazy, do it yourself or get a maid. just because someone doesnt take their clothes off, doesnt automaticaly make it not sexual. if in fact at some point it doesnt become sexual, your in it for the wrong reason, the way i see it anyway. what would be the point of someone giving themselves to me, mind, body and spirit, if i cant do as i wish with them. one who does not accept their own sexual needs, is to some point, a slave to themselves.

Thing is, for some of us it really isn't about sex. I'm not one of 'em, as this is intricatly tied up with my sexual needs, but for some it -is- about no strings housecleaning and beating, on both ends. To say that someone who doesn't want to get sexual is in it for the wrong reasons is a bad idea, and invalidates many people with different sexual desires.

I wasn't arguing that the girl in your case -wasn't- gonna get sexual at some point, I was simply pointing out that someone she is not sexually attracted to may make an idea BDSM partner, especially for introduction, because it reduces one of the things that causes problems. If she isn't sexually attracted to them, and makes that clear, it allows her to explore BDSM without sexual entanglement. That can be a GREAT thing for a new person.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 23

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 12:52:11 PM

TheTopHat

Posts: 39
Joined: 3/12/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyEvilBych

Did anyone else notice that only the so called"Male doms" on collarme ever mention sex? LOL. Sex is NOT necessary and should NOT be an issue ever in TPE. There are alot of men on here who pose as Dominants, and actually they know NOTHING of BDSM at all...some buddy of theirs somewhere in life lead them to believe that being a Dom means "kinky sex" so they slap on some leather and hit the internet cause they cant get a woman in real life. Im not saying that All of the male doms on CM feel this way...but I know I have been IMd by several switches, and Doms who even email ME...and I am a Domme! and its always something about sex....I just get so sick of it.

I don't believe to date that I have mentioned sex at all in any of my posts, and I think to bring it up when first messaging someone is obnoxious and rude. But just to be a pedant, and because I hate it when anybody makes a statement (except for me) that is finite and absolute.

Power and sex are inately connected. Whether we look at it from a Freudian perspective or even more simply from the perspective of sexual attraction and desire being a motivating factor in all of our lives (aka Napoleon Hill). Additionally I'd argue that sex plays a big role in getting anyone to do anything - there have been a number of studies which show the most successful and convincing salesmen (and women) are those either with a higher sex drive or a higher interest in sexuality. Even if there is no actual intercourse control of a slaves sexuality is essential if they are to truly be a slave.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread....

_____________________________

TheTopHat (and Cane)

Just my 2.31 cents (In Canada you see)

(in reply to GreedyEvilBych)

Post #: 24

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 1:11:26 PM

ImpGrrl

Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Everything Wildfleurs just said - I second it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

It depends on the trainer. In my experience very few people are actually equipped to train people, but there are some who are. It sounds like you want her for yourself, so I hardly think you are the proper one to evaluate whether these people actually have the appropriate skills set and approach to be good trainers.

To me a quality trainer is someone who enjoys teaching people for the experience and personal growth that they will see in the person and experience personally. They also have the skills set necessary to actually teach the trainee specific, durable, transferable skills that can be objectively assessed. So to me, teaching someone how to “become a better submissive” isn’t really training. But teaching someone how to communicate effectively, how to become more physically flexible and fit, and how to become more organized and handle someone else’s schedule on top of your own are specific skills that I think can be extremely valuable in submitting to someone.

If you don’t use those skills, at least you have them, but quite frankly I definitely can see the value in going to an objective outsider who is just interested in seeing you attain certain skills and can grade you on your ability to learn those skills and integrate them. But like I said, I think there are very few people that are able to do that and are interested in being a trainer.

C~

Edited to fix the weird formatting and add: I think its important to find out what people mean by training. Because I find its rare that they mean what I outlined in my post.

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 25

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 1:13:48 PM

devilwntdown

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/25/2006
Status: offline

again thetophat, i must concur with you. sex sells, its everywhere you look.

as to perverse, you pretty much validated what i was saying, even though that wasent your intension. sex doesnt mean just intercourse at all. if a woman wears a low cut top and a short skirt, shes trying to be more sexually attractive. even though she might not want to have sex with anyone, she is still using sex somewhat. weather you belive it or not, its the deep down driving force for all humans. and if someone just wants to beat someone and then have them clean their floor, that to me is not the right reason, its just lazy and ignorant.

(in reply to TheTopHat)

Post #: 26

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 1:40:54 PM

feylin

Posts: 182
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

"and if someone just wants to beat someone and then have them clean their floor, that to me is not the right reason, its just lazy and ignorant."

Different strokes....? So you only beat someone to have sex with them? <grins> Only pointing out that we all might not get the same thing out of the exact same act. Different needs, different fufillment. I might just be pleasing moping up that floor. <smiles>

Best wishes.

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 27

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 1:57:30 PM

ImpGrrl

Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilwntdown
if a woman wears a low cut top and a short skirt, shes trying to be more sexually attractive. even though she might not want to have sex with anyone, she is still using sex somewhat.

OR, she's feeling good about wearing what she's wearing. It's not all about teh mens.

quote:

weather you belive it or not, its the deep down driving force for all humans.

But *not* the deep down driving force behind all human *actions*. We're complex - and we have more motivations than the one.

quote:

and if someone just wants to beat someone and then have them clean their floor, that to me is not the right reason, its just lazy and ignorant.

Then what *is* the right reason? If the person on the other end of the deal wants exactly what they get - why the hell not?

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 28

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 2:14:50 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilwntdown

again thetophat, i must concur with you. sex sells, its everywhere you look.

as to perverse, you pretty much validated what i was saying, even though that wasent your intension. sex doesnt mean just intercourse at all. if a woman wears a low cut top and a short skirt, shes trying to be more sexually attractive. even though she might not want to have sex with anyone, she is still using sex somewhat. weather you belive it or not, its the deep down driving force for all humans. and if someone just wants to beat someone and then have them clean their floor, that to me is not the right reason, its just lazy and ignorant.

Sexual expression isn't the same thing as sexual attraction. I can wear soemthing sexy because it -feels-good, not because I'm trying to make men/women sexually attracted to me.

"The right reason"? Good lord. The right reason for gettting invovled in a personal relationship is because it fufills the people invovled. If I get invovled in a relationship with someone who says I will never have sex again and will be clothed head to toe in fabric every day of my life, and it fufills and satisfies me, I am invovled in a relationship for the right reasons.

I think you missed what I was trying to say, though, namely that for many of us getting invovled, elliminating the overt sexual aspects helps us focus on what we really want out of bdsm. With my first ownership relationship I found people who were ok with the fact that I wasn't ready for sex and sexual contact yet. Our relationship was based on service and pain. I was theirs to hurt and to make their lives easier, but we had no sexual contact. It helped me to figure out what I was looking for, and to sort out the bits that worked for me from the bits that didn't work. I already knew that BDSM was what worked for me sexually. I already knew it aroused me. I -didn't- know whta else worked.

I'm not saying sex shouldn't be invovled. I would be unhappy in a permanant relationship without a sexual aspect. However I stand by saying that a relationship without sexual attraction can be a great way to help one'sself learn what one wants from BDSM -aside- from sex.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 29

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 3:10:16 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Right, and that's TWICE now you've made a snide comment about someone's response to you--all in your first day on the site. Relax, cowboy. If you start a public thread and ask people for their responses, you're going to get responses you don't like. We see brand new pugnacious types all the time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilwntdown

lordandmaster,, "What "opinions" do you think we can provide?", hmmmmmmm, guess you had an opinion anyway, lol.

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 30

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 5:28:21 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

There are so many ways you can go when you are new, and it can get really confusing, sounds to me like she has found stewardship and parental guidance with these two and chances are because of their long time in the lifestyle, perhaps they have a tremendous amount of wisdom that they can impart safely and non -sexually . If I was new and not wanting sex i think that is the perfect scenario I would choose.

But on the other hand they could be evil and manipulative ax murders too, I cant possibly know, and nor can you, all you can do is look for signs, the main one being isolation from friend and lifestyle, and I would also start worrying if she starts spouting one-true-wayisms.

Presumably you wrote this post because she is a dear friend, just keep being that, and maybe talk to her about specific goals she may have for herself to get a clearer picture of how you can best serve her in achieving them.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 31

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 5:48:44 PM

BeingChewsie

Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilwntdown

and if someone just wants to beat someone and then have them clean their floor, that to me is not the right reason, its just lazy and ignorant.

Nah. It is perfectly legitimate if an owner doesn't fuck his property. Some men prefer to not screw the household servants. They serve a purpose and are useful. I wouldn't say my owner is lazy, frankly enslaving a girl *you* -can- fuck if you -want- and using her as a domestic or earner or hell any number of things seems pretty smart and savy to me. Especially if it frees up some of your time to pursue your passions. My owner loves to travel and does so frequently. Having me in his household makes it easier for him to do that.

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 32

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 5:51:54 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

bitatruble, if your that confused, why did you even bother. shes new to it, she dont know if someones being on the level or trapping her. and yes she is showing interest in me.

I said I was a 'bit' confused as I don't see how it's any of your business what she's doing if she doesn't belong to you. You said any thoughts would help greatly so I offered what I thought about the situation given the limited information.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 33

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 10:13:59 PM

Maam4slavegirl

Posts: 40
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: Iowa
Status: offline

Does it really matter who trains her or how they do it? Once she finds a dominant to take her as their own they are going to re-train her to their liking, not caring what she has known. That's only my opinion, but it is how it is how it will be when I find the one I am seeking. No matter what she will learn what I want her to be under my training.

_____________________________

You must be true to yourself before you can be true to anyone else. If you play games do not play them with other people's time. It is not fair to those truly seeking.

Mz Patti or Patti...depends on who's asking...

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 34

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 10:41:42 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

if someone just wants to beat someone and then have them clean their floor, that to me is not the right reason, its just lazy and ignorant.

Just because it's not right for you, doesn't mean it's wrong. I know plenty of masochists who would thoroughly enjoy having that exact arrangement. You 'just met' this woman and you are dictating to her what she should do, with whom she should do it, how she should do it and you are disparaging two people whom you don't even know because their way is not your way. I will state again ... she is, presumably, a fully formed adult, not a child and certainly not your child. You don't have any rights or say over what she does even though you clearly desire such from her. If you truly want to enlighten her, give her information on local venues, munches and events or forums such as this one where she can gain a diverse set of opinions rather than just yours. There isn't a valid reason in the world for isolating her from furthering her BDSM education. If you're not afraid of what she'll find out, invite her in.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 35

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/27/2006 6:39:43 AM

GreedyEvilBych

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

lol. well i wrote a "nice little rebuttal" but I have since decided its best not to give you the attention you so obviously crave...plus this thread finally became positive again after your obvious attempt to take it in a negative direction...so I will leave it so that the topic can continue as it is.

< Message edited by GreedyEvilBych -- 3/27/2006 6:52:08 AM >

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 36

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/27/2006 8:07:34 AM

valeca

Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilwntdown

in response to the shadows, there is enough things on line that i would direct her to study without putting herself in a bad spot

Amoung several other things, this caught my attention. Although there are several things one can learn by researching and reading online, it is only useful to a point. One cannot experience the sensations, conflicting emotions, frustration, exuberence or reality, etc. that come with actually -living-. Someone can read/research all there is to know about open-heart surgury, but would you want them cracking your chest open if all they'd done is read about it? Doubtful.

It may not have been your intention, but you've certainly tipped your hand regarding your feelings toward (or about) this girl. And in doing so, you've made yourself appear very closed minded. Your kinks/choices will be distasteful to some, but they're yours and are respected as such. It might go better for you, here and in life, if you extend that courtesy to those around you--whether you agree with them or not.

_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 37

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/27/2006 1:17:15 PM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyEvilBych

lol. well i wrote a "nice little rebuttal" but I have since decided its best not to give you the attention you so obviously crave...plus this thread finally became positive again after your obvious attempt to take it in a negative direction...so I will leave it so that the topic can continue as it is.

I was taking the thread in a negative direction?

Regardless, saying less than necessary is usually a good strategy.

(in reply to GreedyEvilBych)

Post #: 38

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/27/2006 3:05:10 PM

GreedyEvilBych

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

yes, it shows I have self control.....you should try it sometime....

After all if you can't control yourself, how are you going to control someone else? Have a glorius Monday....

(in reply to amayos)

Post #: 39

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/27/2006 6:16:48 PM

CERCKL

Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Really though this isn't a question you can ask for her or even your place to guide her. Just let her know there are other resources and ask lots of questions. Be her friend in otherwords.

But he wants more and wants justification to try and pull her away and convince her that it's better to with THIS wolf than the competition. Can't do that if you empower her to make an educated choice- she might not choose him.

Laughing...ya think?
C

_____________________________

AND I AM TOO AN ASSHOLE, I HAVE REFERENCES!!!

"Please, please, please believe me, I really am an asshole. All that Enlightenment and Higher Learning shit was all a ruse."

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 40

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