Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: American Talibangelicals


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: American Talibangelicals Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 12:45:11 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
It really makes no difference to me who is religious or not...The US also had a few agnostic presidents...and this is one of my points.

I don't know the religious affiliation of my councilmen...mayor...representatives both on the state and federal level and most people I know do not either. AND I live in the middle of the so-called Bible belt...Missouri. They, like myself, voted by the issues not the religion…it never comes up.

You, and many outside this country, are overreacting to a few loud mouthed fanatics and think the majority of Americans are the same. And being hypocritical at the same time concerning your own leaders.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 2/3/2010 12:51:39 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 12:48:20 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You said Tony Blair avowed that his religion would not affect his decision-making. Brown has made no such claim…Obama said the same thing and so did Bush so why is that not good enough for both nations.



When did Bush make such a claim?  In fact, I remember him claiming the opposite in many statements that were widely documented.

I don't remember Obama commenting in either direction.



I heard him on more than one occasion say religion did not enter into his decisions during direct questioning by the media.... You show me a quote otherwise where he claimed to only be representing Christians.

Butch





_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 12:53:41 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I heard him on more than one occasion say religion did not enter into his decisions during direct questioning by the media.... You show me a quote otherwise where he claimed to only be representing Christians.

Butch






http://www.pierretristam.com/Bobst/07/wf081507.htm

...have fun.

None of us have claimed that Bush only represented Christians, so thats a red herring. What has been claimed is that he's a religious man, who based his political decisions on his personal faith. Two diofferent things. The quotes i've linked to above are a mixed bag, some are arguably misquotes too. However what they do demonstrate is that Bush's presidency was not a secular one.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 1:06:20 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
What a crap bullshit link...below you

Oh I believe he is a religious man of convenience and made decisions according to his upbringing...just as the majority of world leaders today and in the past made discussions according to their upbringing...I do ...so do you.

So did Tony Blair...so will Brown...so will Harper...so will Obama...but he will not infringe on any other religion in America. That is how it has worked for these hundreds of years.

Busch constantly preached that no retribution be allowed against Moslems in this country.

You are just hung up on religion that means little to the average American in politics and painting us unfairly.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 1:29:46 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

What a crap bullshit link...below you

Oh I believe he is a religious man of convenience and made decisions according to his upbringing...just as the majority of world leaders today and in the past made discussions according to their upbringing...I do ...so do you.

So did Tony Blair...so will Brown...so will Harper...so will Obama...but he will not infringe on any other religion in America. That is how it has worked for these hundreds of years.

Busch constantly preached that no retribution be allowed against Moslems in this country.

You are just hung up on religion that means little to the average American in politics and painting us unfairly.

Butch



...there's none so blind as those who will not see.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 1:42:36 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
The US also had a few agnostic presidents.

Actually every POTUS has had a stated Christian religious belief. The closest we've ever come to an agnostic or atheist is Jefferson whose Presidential election included his opponent calling him the equivalent of an atheist and Jefferson vigorously denied it.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 1:49:56 PM   
EbonyWood


Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
The US also had a few agnostic presidents.

Actually every POTUS has had a stated Christian religious belief. The closest we've ever come to an agnostic or atheist is Jefferson whose Presidential election included his opponent calling him the equivalent of an atheist and Jefferson vigorously denied it.



I've always said that the true test of anyone being able to become President isn't when we have a woman, or any particular race, or even sexual leaning - it's when we have a stated atheist or agnostic, and the separation of church and state is taken to it's logical end point.
 
Unfortunately, I will be long gone when that day comes. If ever.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 2:10:10 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You said Tony Blair avowed that his religion would not affect his decision-making. Brown has made no such claim…Obama said the same thing and so did Bush so why is that not good enough for both nations.



When did Bush make such a claim?  In fact, I remember him claiming the opposite in many statements that were widely documented.

I don't remember Obama commenting in either direction.



I heard him on more than one occasion say religion did not enter into his decisions during direct questioning by the media.... You show me a quote otherwise where he claimed to only be representing Christians.

Butch


Well, what point are you arguing, whether he did not let religion affect his decisions or whether he claimed to only represent Christians?

The latter was never suggested but I can give you many quotes of the former, as Philosophy has done.

Here are a few that weren't included in his link:


The Religiosity of George W. Bush


When then-Governor of Texas Bush was seeking the presidency in 2000, a story circulated that he had phoned the televangelist James Robison and said to him, “I’ve heard the call. I believe God wants me to run for president.” Even that struck me as nothing more than standard Bible Belt hyperbole. What changed my mind is Stephen Mansfield’s unauthorized 2004 campaign hagiography, The Faith of George W. Bush. In it, Mansfield sets out an account of events following upon that phone call, based on an apparently recent interview with Robison:

On the day that the evangelist entered Bush’s office, he was surprised to find political strategist Karl Rove there as well, and even more surprised at what Bush was about to say. “My life is changed,” the governor said. “I had a drinking problem. I won’t say I was an alcoholic, but it affected my relationships, even with my kids. It could have destroyed me. But I’ve given my life to Christ.”

Robison, who had heard rumors of Bush’s conversion, was struck by the sincerity he sensed. He was not prepared, though, for what came next. “I feel like God wants me to run for president,” Bush said. “I can’t explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen, and, at that time, my country is going to need me. I know it won’t be easy, on me or my family, but God wants me to do it.”

“In fact,” Bush continued, “I really don’t want to run. My father was president. My whole family has been affected by it. I know the price. I know what it will mean. I would be perfectly happy to have people point at me someday when I’m buying my fishing lures at Wal-Mart and say, ‘That was our governor.’ That’s all I want. And if I run for president, that kind of life will be over. My life will never be the same. But I feel God wants me to do this, and I must do it.”

The president’s prophetic profession, if it really was expressed this way, definitely goes over the line into the realm of magical thinking and delusion. Neither he nor Karl Rove has come forward to correct or to clarify Mansfield’s account.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 2:10:50 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
The US also had a few agnostic presidents.

Actually every POTUS has had a stated Christian religious belief. The closest we've ever come to an agnostic or atheist is Jefferson whose Presidential election included his opponent calling him the equivalent of an atheist and Jefferson vigorously denied it.



In some of Jefferson’s private papers I researched for another thread he stated he did not believe in the Christian view of religion...James Madison was another...but that does not mean they did not contemplate a source for mankind...so take that how you will. Many scholars called them Deists. They found it hard to believe the virgin birth and some of the Old Testament.

I suppose that does not quite qualify as an agnostic…but close.

Butch



_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 2:13:54 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

What a crap bullshit link...below you

Oh I believe he is a religious man of convenience and made decisions according to his upbringing...just as the majority of world leaders today and in the past made discussions according to their upbringing...I do ...so do you.

So did Tony Blair...so will Brown...so will Harper...so will Obama...but he will not infringe on any other religion in America. That is how it has worked for these hundreds of years.

Busch constantly preached that no retribution be allowed against Moslems in this country.

You are just hung up on religion that means little to the average American in politics and painting us unfairly.

Butch



...there's none so blind as those who will not see.


I see a view of America as an American and a politically aware American...not someone that ignores reality for hyperbole. You are exaggerating something that is in your mind but does not exist in the average American.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 2:18:42 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Yea yea ...you were listening on the other end of the phone I suppose... more unsubstantiated innuendo.

I’ve never said Bush did not talk of his religious beliefs…but he said he did not make decisions on his religion.

But first I am defending Obama not Bush... he was just a terrible president but not a religious nut...but he did use the nuts.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 2:29:41 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yea yea ...you were listening on the other end of the phone I suppose... more unsubstantiated innuendo.

I’ve never said Bush did not talk of his religious beliefs…but he said he did not make decisions on his religion.

But first I am defending Obama not Bush... he was just a terrible president but not a religious nut...but he did use the nuts.

Butch



If God told him to run for President, and he did not want to as the quote claimed, then not only was religion influencing his decisions but going beyond religion into fanaticism.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 2:37:49 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
The US also had a few agnostic presidents.

Actually every POTUS has had a stated Christian religious belief. The closest we've ever come to an agnostic or atheist is Jefferson whose Presidential election included his opponent calling him the equivalent of an atheist and Jefferson vigorously denied it.



In some of Jefferson’s private papers I researched for another thread he stated he did not believe in the Christian view of religion...James Madison was another...but that does not mean they did not contemplate a source for mankind...so take that how you will. Many scholars called them Deists. They found it hard to believe the virgin birth and some of the Old Testament.

I suppose that does not quite qualify as an agnostic…but close.

Butch

I'm not talking about Jefferson's true beliefs but what he felt it necessary to claim as he ran for president.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_and_religion#Accusations_of_being_an_infidel



(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 2:49:27 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Well if Sprigg said that, I guess it proves that all republicans feel the same way.


Well OK, fair point.

What makes anyone think that the republicans all agree with the Family Research Council?
I haven't seen any data to support this.

However- one thing is very clear from recent events. The Christian Right, exemplified by the Family research Council, along with the Tea Party radicals, have in fact taken over the party, and are able to defeat or intimidate any Republican who opposes them

Examples would be the defeat of Dede Scozzafava in NY-23, by the overwhelming support for Sarah Palin, and the fact that not a single Republican Congressman or Senator is willing to go on the record and say he believes in evolution.

My use of the title "American Talibangelicals" was not carelessly chosen;

Like the Taliban, the Christian Right has driven off the moderates, or intimidated the ones who remain into cowed silence.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 4:40:20 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I’ve never said Bush did not talk of his religious beliefs…but he said he did not make decisions on his religion.

Butch



What about his crusade ? 

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 6:22:48 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
Clinton was "religious" too. Remember every sunday he'd pose for pictures outside his church with that big bible in his left arm?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 7:43:44 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

I have a friend and she is a democrat. She has been unemployed for a long time and feels she really doesn't need to go out and look for a job because her unemployment checks cover her expenses. So why do democrats think they don't have to work?


Unemployment is an insurance program she paid into and the checks she recieves are the payout of that insurance policy it is not welfare.
If you won the lotto tomorrow for a gazillion dollars would it be fair of us to characterize you as lazy because you chose to enjoy your unearned windfall and stopped working?


HST


If I won the lottery tomorrow, do you honestly think I would care if you thought I was lazy?




_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 8:18:01 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

Yeah, I remember that. The biggest bible he could find, right at the height of the sexual harassment / rape allegations.


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Clinton was "religious" too. Remember every sunday he'd pose for pictures outside his church with that big bible in his left arm?


_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 8:52:29 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Yeah, I remember that. The biggest bible he could find, right at the height of the sexual harassment / rape allegations.


He borrowed it from Newt Gingrich's mistress.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: American Talibangelicals - 2/3/2010 10:08:09 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

He borrowed it from Newt Gingrich's mistress.



Was he tapping her, too?  Grabbing seconds behind Newt...  <shudder>  He really did have a thing for trashy little sluts, didn't he?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: American Talibangelicals Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109