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Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 9:49:29 AM

angelic

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Yesterday my son (16) and his buddy (15) road their bicycles down to the local park, which is about 2 blocks from my home. There apparently was a 'gang' hanging out there and they decided that my son shouldn't be in the park so they beat him up after giving him 6 secs to leave. A witness called 911 while it was happening along with others that had witnessed it. Well to make a long story short, after the fire department (medics) and police officer left, it was a trip to the emergency room. Son is ok, minor stitches and black eye (thank goodness) (i keep going into his room just to check on him). Here's what i'm trying to get my mind around and having one hell of a time doing: There were several officers at the scene (the park), the officer that came to my home took my son and his buddy back to the park so my son could identify the ones that did this. i asked the officer what was going to happen to the attackers and he told me they would be arrested, but most likely would be released fairly quickly. i called the jail last night to find out if they had been released (these are 'gang' members) and the woman that answered said no one had been placed in custody with that profile. i explained to her that i was afraid, not only for my son but for all of us (i have no weapons here) and since it was pretty obvious where the fire department was (after the incident) (chances are this 'gang' now knows where we live), she said 'one mother to another, sleep with the phone'. Well, needless to say i didn't 'sleep' at all. i guess i just needed to vent a little bit. Thanks for letting me.

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~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 9:55:09 AM

JohnWarren

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From: Delray Beach, FL
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Sadly, the police feel "we are not responsible for an individual's safety. Our job is to guard society." This is the argument they've used successfully in court a number of times when they were sued for sitting back while people were harmed and killed.

Frankly, it deeply saddens and offends me.

The laws of every State (legal meaning here) vary widely so just what you can do to protect yourself also vary very widely. When I lived in Massachusetts, a citizen was pretty much forbidden to use force to defend himself or herself. You might want to check what your local laws are.

Frankly, I'm much more comfortable in Florida now.

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 10:05:49 AM

angelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

Sadly, the police feel "we are not responsible for an individual's safety. Our job is to guard society." This is the argument they've used successfully in court a number of times when they were sued for sitting back while people were harmed and killed.

Frankly, it deeply saddens and offends me.

The laws of every State (legal meaning here) vary widely so just what you can do to protect yourself also vary very widely. When I lived in Massachusetts, a citizen was pretty much forbidden to use force to defend himself or herself. You might want to check what your local laws are.

Frankly, I'm much more comfortable in Florida now.

Thank You, Mr. Warren, i will check to see what i can do here. my son now wants me to get a gun and i don't think that's the answer at all, (not a gun debate), but since i have little to NO experience with any sort of weapon, not a good idea. i'm just a bit freaked out by it all, and probably not thinking too clearly.

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~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 10:07:09 AM

Level

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Keep in mind that the police just might not have been able to find the punks as of yet.

Working in the Court system, we see this fairly often. One case that sticks in my mind is of a father trying to get the police to arrest his daughter's ex. He's on parole, and made it a habit to sit near the father's home with a shotgun. When he wasn't doing this, he would call them and tell the father how he was going to "fuck" his "little girl" one last time. Did anything ever get done? Nope.

A lot of police, and attorney's, and judges, do as little as they have to. Just like in other professions. Some are incredible people, sometimes giving their blood or lives to do what is right. But.......*shakes head*.......

angelic, maybe you can look into a neigborhood watch program, or at least alert your neighbors of the situation. And I would personally have a weapon on hand. You say you have no experience with one, that can be changed. There should be classes near you I would think.

Level

< Message edited by Level -- 3/26/2006 10:09:04 AM >

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 10:14:11 AM

angelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Keep in mind that the police just might not have been able to find the punks as of yet.

Level

The police had them at the park. my son and his buddy id'd them. As far as any weapon for right now (until i can think this through a bit ) i will rely on sleeping with the phone, on the sofa in the living area with a crow bar.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

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Post #: 5

RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 10:21:22 AM

foxnotinsox

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Joined: 4/29/2005
From: eastern Ontario, Canada
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Venting?? Gosh, I'd be frigging angry .. and want to do some action to protect myself, my child, my community.
Gang members or not, what right have they to touch another without their consent .. and what right have they to public places?
Personally, I would not get a gun ... for if you don't know how to use a weapon properly, it can be used against you.
I would not hide either, cause by doing so we allow ourselves to come under the control of such bullies .... and by doing so giving them the opportunity to do something "in the dark".
Me .. and please this is just me .. I would become active ... hmmmm start a movement for taking back the parks for the kids or something like that ... bring the problem "into" the light .... contact city councellors, make it a issue in a broader societal sense that requires solving, speak with other parents. Perhaps this is occurring on more than just one occasion.
What a tough situation .... wishing I could help more...
Love&Light,
oxox,foX

(in reply to angelic)

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 10:43:50 AM

JohnWarren

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From: Delray Beach, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
Thank You, Mr. Warren, i will check to see what i can do here. my son now wants me to get a gun and i don't think that's the answer at all, (not a gun debate), but since i have little to NO experience with any sort of weapon, not a good idea. i'm just a bit freaked out by it all, and probably not thinking too clearly.

I used to teach firearms self-defence back when I was at USM. I'll give you part of my introductory talk that usually thinned the room out . "A firearm is a device for blowing large bloody holes in people. It is not a remote control; it is not a thing to scare people. It does one thing: blow large bloody holes in in people. If you are not ready to blow a large bloody hole in someone, you should not be taking this class."

Sounds like you have a good grasp on things and are making the right choice for you. Your son is too young to get a vote.

I hope things work out well.

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 11:51:55 AM

Evanesce

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I would advise that, if you want to know what was really done, you get a copy of the police report for this incident. It's going to be MUCH more reliable than the word of a desk jockey who may or may not have known what she was talking about. As for a weapon, I would not recommend purchasing a gun for "protection" unless you know, without question, that when it came down to it, you could pull the trigger and take the life of another human being. Otherwise, it's a waste of money. You'd be better off using that money to move somewhere else.

I feel for you, angelic. I really do.

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Denise

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 12:26:40 PM

Moloch

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Angelic I just looked at your profile, unfortunatley you live in washington, laws there similiar to NY which means the state doesnt thing you have a right to defend yourself. I would suggest going down to a police station filing a report and petetioning for a restraining order or whatever else they are called, if they refuse be forcefull if needed come back with a lawyer. I dont have the link but you can google it there are some large a wickedny nasty forumated pepper sprays out there.
As far as guns concerned http://wdfw.wa.gov/outreach/hed/shootingranges2004.pdf this link will give you a listing of gunranges/clubs, call around find a club that offers hunter saftey/ genral gun saftey classes take that class, drag your kid along too if there are going to be guns in the house he better start learning to respect them!, se if a club offers rife rentals rent a small rifle a .22. Now if you think that you child is hot headed and makes brash decidions keeping a gun in the house is not a good Idea. I admit im 22 and stupid but when I was 16 I was a moron. Every peroson is different ofcoure. I assume you live in a large city, cities have their own gun laws too often. Florida and texas came up with a very good solution to this "gang" problem, its called "shoot to kill" and it's proven to work very well.

(in reply to Evanesce)

Post #: 9

RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 12:53:00 PM

DelightMachine

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Joined: 1/21/2006
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You said you called the jail. You should

1. not only get a copy of the report of the incident, you should
2. get (if you don't already have) the investigating cop's name and phone extension (or at least the cop's name and station phone number).
3. Often there's a "youth officer" who deals with kids. Find out if that person is on the case.

IF YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE TELLING YOU OR WITH THEIR LACK OF ACTION:

4. See the shift supervisor or go above that person to talk to whoever is in charge of that station. Take time off from work if you have to, but talk to that person face-to-face.
5. Is there a victim's advocate office either in your community or at the state level? Sometimes they can help.
6. It may be that there's a victim's association out there, and they may have good advice.
7. Your municipality will have some kind of town board/city council. They have experience talking to constituents who are dissatisfied with any municipal services and that includes people who have been in your situation. Talk to one of them who you are familiar with (see the local government Web site)
8. The LAST place I would go, if you have exhausted ALL of the above, would be your local newspaper, daily first, then weekly if you're covered by both. Have your police report in hand and say you'll speak only on condition of anonymity. Tell them there is a gang problem, your son was a victim of a gang and you're not getting satisfaction from the cops.

TELL (OR REMIND) ALL OF THESE PEOPLE:
1. That your son is a victim.
2. That you're worried about your own safety now.
3. That other people could be in danger.
4. That you want police protection (at the VERY LEAST police should be able to tell you that they will increase patrols in your neighborhood and will at least check to see if everything seems all right).
5. That your son made a positive identification to police.
6. That police haven't arrested the people your son positively identified. (Keep in mind that in most states the actual names of youths arrested are not given out, but commonly the place and time of arrest is given out, along with the age of the youth or at least the fact that the person is a youth and of an age where the name is not given out. This age where names are not given out is almost always 16 or 17.)
7. That if the youth's are arrested, your son is more than willing to testify against them.
8. Take your own pictures of your son's injuries. Do it immediately before they start to fade. The police no doubt have already done this. (If they haven't, you need a new police force.)

Are you certain that your son is willing to testify against them? Check this both with your son and with police. Without testimony, there is no case.

As to what happens next, you might consult a lawyer, keeping in mind that the first meeting with a lawyer, when you are exploring what to do and whether to hire a lawyer, is usually without charge (make sure of this first, but it's almost always the case). Find out what your rights are in your particular state and ask the lawyer for advice. Find a lawyer who specializes in criminal defense and therefore familiar with criminal courts. In my state, usually in very important cases, lawyers are sometimes hired by victims to help them through the court process.

These are all things you CAN do. What you may find is that after a few days or a week you may not want to go through all this. But these are options.

Nationwide, I've heard, youth gangs are becoming a bit more popular. The kids may even call their gangs "Bloods" and "Crips." But I've heard that, for the most part, the gangs aren't nearly as dangerous as they were at the height of the crack epidemic. The gangs themselves often take on names of famous gangs but have no national organization, and often don't even have guns. Of course, often isn't always, and I have no idea what the situation is like where you are.

Your son (and you) have every reason to be angry and to wonder about your safety. Maybe it's a good time to take a jaunt somewhere, like to an amusement park or something he likes. Best of luck.

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 1:02:40 PM

DelightMachine

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I don't have time to research this further, but here's a site with contact info for victim's assistance agencies around the state of Washington. Best of luck.

http://www1.dshs.wa.gov/ca/victimservices/victim.asp

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 1:35:38 PM

RiotGirl

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Hey Angelic - sorry to hear you are dealing with this. Best you can do is take action. i'm also dealing with something similiar but not as extreme. Some stupid kids in my neighborhood are getting together and acting like little punks. Tried beating up a neighbors kid (6) and stole my kids toys (4). Now they're tagging gang names on ppl's houses. Friends of mine actually. We called the cops and for once i am pleasantly suprised. He actually spoke to the group of boys (or part of them) and suggested that whenever we see a group of kids hanging out together to call in for "suspicious" activity or even "loitering" . Request a patrol of the area (as i have) and even possibly try and get the community together. Send out flyers of possible trouble. Rather trouble in your case.

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 1:42:14 PM

MHOO314

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Unfortunately is is not what the police do or don't do--the charge would have been assault---that is in most states a misdemeanor--if someone would have had a weapon of some kind, it would have been "aggravated assault" which carries a stiffer charge--also in scenarios like that it ends up being " he said, he said". I am not making light of what happened, but there are too few police and too many serious crimes to deal with---they need to stop the murderers, rapists etc.--( and these kids probably had no prior arrest history) What the police did do is take names and locations, should something happen again, they have a tighter case of probable cause--again I am not making light of what happened--its wrong, BUT educating what the legal side sees---I would however stay alert for a few days.

( I am an ex New Orleans PO btw)

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 2:50:09 PM

angelic

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thank Yyou Aall. i am considering everything everyone said. i am going tomorrow to get a full copy of the police report. The police officer did take pictures and i will be certain to get a copy of these also. Delight, Sir Your idea about taking my own pictures is one i will do. (i should have already done that, but... brain's been a bit fried). This frightened me more than it should have, but it was truly a 'first' of ever having been touched by something like this. i've seen all the news reports, all the stuff about gangs, but it was always in someone else's neighbor (bad to think that way i know). And i keep thinking what if this guy as he was counting down to my son's leaving the park pulled out a gun instead of just beating him, today would be entirely different. i am so very thankful that he is laying on the sofa, watching tv.

As far as guns go, i just can't get my mind wrapped around that yet; although i have been thinking about all three of us (both boys and myself) taking a self-defense course. Also i am considering a community effort type of thing. This park is very popular in the spring/summer because it's also on a lake.

MOHO Ma'am, yes the police did tell me it was a misdemeanor assault. And i agree that the police have many more things to deal with. So maybe it's time for the neighbor community get this scum our of our area.

Again, thank Yyou Aall!!!

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~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 2:58:59 PM

ownedgirlie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

I used to teach firearms self-defence back when I was at USM. I'll give you part of my introductory talk that usually thinned the room out . "A firearm is a device for blowing large bloody holes in people. It is not a remote control; it is not a thing to scare people. It does one thing: blow large bloody holes in in people. If you are not ready to blow a large bloody hole in someone, you should not be taking this class."

Excellent quote. In all my firearms classes (4 levels), formally taught in school by a PO, we were advised of the same, and it was drilled into us: "If you fire at someone, you are aiming to kill." No acceptions.

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 3:10:55 PM

MHOO314

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angelic, read your email dear, My boy has offered to help.

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 3:14:36 PM

angelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MHOO314

angelic, read your email dear, My boy has offered to help.

Yes Ma'am. Thank You, i did get it and responded.

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~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 4:08:34 PM

fastlane

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mean people suck! no matter how old they are Angelic.
Your son will grow stronger from the experience..believe me.
I was beat up often by my Dad and by my age group, when I was your sons age and look at me now.

Hit me with your best shot...and you will go down! I'm tough and so will be your son....sooooooo relax and pity the bully's
xo, Kevin

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 4:33:20 PM

angelic

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thank You Fastlane, Sir. i'm sorry about what You went through.

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~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci

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RE: Venting Just a Bit - 3/26/2006 4:51:12 PM

Cloudz

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angelic,

I am sorry for what you and yours have been through. I wish you all the best.

For everyone who has read these postings...please go back and re-read the people who speak of guns. For the most part, these people are educated and informed.

Like John Warren said..guns are deadly weapons. Now ask yourself this, as you lie in bed with a gun in your nightstand. How is your judgement when you are scared, startled, surprised, angry, frustrated, or pissed off? Can you trust the rest of YOUR life on that judgement?

Very LONG story short. There was a time in my life when local law enforcement SUGGESTED I consider purchasing a gun...many, many years ago. My life truly was in danger, by a very mentally ill person. 18 years later...my startle reflex is still so high that my sons worry they will give me a heart attack one day simply by walking into the room and startling me.

When I went to sign up for a gun class, the guardian angel there asked me some questions, that could affect the rest of my life. I chose to walk away from the gun. I cannot trust my startle reflex to a handgun. I do trust it to my German Shepard.

Be well.

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Enjoy the Journey,
~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."

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