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How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 7:29:58 PM

Brain

Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline

This is, in my opinion, an excellent article because it provides facts and explains a lot.

How to Get Our Democracy Back

If You Want Change, You Have to Change Congress
The US Congress has become the Fundraising Congress. And it answers--as Republican and Democratic presidents alike have discovered--not to the People, and not even to the president, but increasingly to the relatively small mix of interests that fund the key races that determine which party will be in power.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20100222/lessig

This is why Democrats haven’t done better.
“Instead, we are now seeing the consequences of a decision made at the most vulnerable point of Obama's campaign--just when it seemed that he might really have beaten the party's presumed nominee. For at that moment, Obama handed the architecture of his new administration over to a team that thought what America needed most was another Bill Clinton. A team chosen by the brother of one of DC's most powerful lobbyists, and a White House headed by the quintessential DC politician. A team that could envision nothing more than the ordinary politics of Washington--the kind of politics Obama had called "small." A team whose imagination--politically--is tiny. ”

Please don’t vote for these sellouts and don’t vote for Republicans either, I think they're worse, vote for independents if you want real change.

Is such a norm even imaginable in DC today? Compare Stennis with Max Baucus, who has gladly opened his campaign chest to $3.3 million in contributions from the healthcare and insurance industries since 2005, a time when he has controlled healthcare in the Senate. Or Senators Lieberman, Bayh and Nelson, who took millions from insurance and healthcare interests and then opposed the (in their states) popular public option for healthcare. Or any number of Blue Dog Democrats in the House who did the same, including, most prominently, Alabama's Mike Ross. Or Republican John Campbell, a California landlord who in 2008 received (as ethics reports indicate) between $600,000 and $6 million in rent from used car dealers, who successfully inserted an amendment into the Consumer Financial Protection Agency Act to exempt car dealers from financing rules to protect consumers. Or Democrats Melissa Bean and Walter Minnick, who took top-dollar contributions from the financial services sector and then opposed stronger oversight of financial regulations.

Post #: 1

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 9:33:38 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

Back ? We never had a democracy. We went straight from a republic to an oghliarchy.

T

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 2

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 9:44:51 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

I voted a straight Democratic ticket in 2008 as a protest against where the GOP had led our country. Next time, I'm voting third party all the way.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Termyn8or)

Post #: 3

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 9:45:44 PM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

I've known for a long time that the system is broken, and I've been voting independent/3rd party for over 20 years now.

Wasted votes my ass. The people need to start somewhere.

Yet most of what I see is still the right vs. left bickering. They've both sold out, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

I mean WTF... can the sheeple be that deeply asleep??? What's gonna wake them out of their slumber?

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 4

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 9:57:48 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

there is only ONE way that is going to happen and that is when people et most figger out voting for corporate slugs has not worked in the past and will not work now or anytime in the future.

They subverted the people through the courts and the people have to use the same method to take it back, or pick up a gun.

Most common people prefer just picking up a gun if you walk around america as they will tell you they do not have time to spend their whol life fighting in courts.

HOWEVER even that wont work for long until we get smart and understand how this country was really built.

the real solution is bring back the peoples Law!

The grand jury, the militia whos responsibility it is to protect the people, (not the army as people assume).

finally use of notaries public! They have more power than the lower level judges and you do not even have to go to court.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAC6w_HC5Cw

bring back the grand juries, many are forming already in many states and counties. Huge move in that direction already.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 5

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 9:58:07 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

can the sheeple be that deeply asleep??? What's gonna wake them out of their slumber?

To stop buying the right/left fiction they're sold and re-recognize that the majority of people are moderate.

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 6

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 10:03:45 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

can the sheeple be that deeply asleep??? What's gonna wake them out of their slumber?

To stop buying the right/left fiction they're sold and re-recognize that the majority of people are moderate.

good to see we agree on something after all.

even that however is not the end. they are all incorporated and the law of the land has been subverted and intermingled into the law of the sea.

combine that with hidden trusts and the general removal of the common law in the courts and we are fucked plain and simple. So getting rid of the party mentality I agree with but I all add that is the tip of the iceberg

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 7

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 10:16:08 PM

Brain

Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline

It looks like what he’s saying here is we have to get the money out of the system.
Fair Elections Now Act, maybe this can do it.

Citizen-funded elections could come in a number of forms. The most likely is the current bill sponsored in the House by Democrat John Larson and Republican Walter Jones, in the Senate by Democrats Dick Durbin and Arlen Specter. That bill is a hybrid between traditional public funding and small-dollar donations. Under this Fair Elections Now Act (which, by the way, is just about the dumbest moniker for the statute possible, at least if the sponsors hope to avoid Supreme Court invalidation), candidates could opt in to a system that would give them, after clearing certain hurdles, substantial resources to run a campaign. Candidates would also be free to raise as much money as they want in contributions maxed at $100 per citizen.

So too is it with our democracy. Whether on the left or the right, there is an endless list of critical problems that each side believes important. The Reagan right wants less government and a simpler tax system. The progressive left wants better healthcare and a stop to global warming. Each side views these issues as critical, either to the nation (the right) or to the globe (the left). But what both sides must come to see is that the reform of neither is possible until we solve our first problem first--the dependency of the Fundraising Congress.

This dependency will perpetually block reform of any kind, since reform is always a change in the status quo, and it is defense of the status quo that the current corruption has perfected. For again, as Obama said:

If we're not willing to take up that fight, then real change--change that will make a lasting difference in the lives of ordinary Americans--will keep getting blocked by the defenders of the status quo.

"Defenders of the status quo"--now including the souls that hijacked the movement Obama helped inspire.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20100222/lessig

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 8

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 10:16:24 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I voted a straight Democratic ticket in 2008 as a protest against where the GOP had led our country. Next time, I'm voting third party all the way.

I'm not even voting anymore, as a general rule. I'm not interested in using my vote to send a message that nobody's listening to anyway. I'll only vote for candidates who represent my interests, and if there's no candidate who represents my interests, I won't vote. Since neither major party represents my interests, and most third-party candidates are kooks, there's no reason for me to vote. I quit.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 9

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 10:18:01 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

That'll show 'em.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 10

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 10:24:43 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

But I'm not trying to show anyone anything. I quit. I'm done. I'm through voting for people I know are corrupt and incompetent just to keep other people who are even more corrupt and incompetent from getting into office, and hoping that the corrupt and incompetent people I voted for do less damage than the other corrupt and incompetent people would have done. Both parties represent corporate interests first and foremost, not my interests. The system is completely and irreparably broken. Voting for third party candidates accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I quit. I'm done. I'm not pretending to participate anymore.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 2/4/2010 10:25:05 PM >

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 11

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 10:36:18 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

It looks like what he’s saying here is we have to get the money out of the system.
Fair Elections Now Act, maybe this can do it.

Citizen-funded elections could come in a number of forms. The most likely is the current bill sponsored in the House by Democrat John Larson and Republican Walter Jones, in the Senate by Democrats Dick Durbin and Arlen Specter. That bill is a hybrid between traditional public funding and small-dollar donations. Under this Fair Elections Now Act (which, by the way, is just about the dumbest moniker for the statute possible, at least if the sponsors hope to avoid Supreme Court invalidation), candidates could opt in to a system that would give them, after clearing certain hurdles, substantial resources to run a campaign. Candidates would also be free to raise as much money as they want in contributions maxed at $100 per citizen.

So too is it with our democracy. Whether on the left or the right, there is an endless list of critical problems that each side believes important. The Reagan right wants less government and a simpler tax system. The progressive left wants better healthcare and a stop to global warming. Each side views these issues as critical, either to the nation (the right) or to the globe (the left). But what both sides must come to see is that the reform of neither is possible until we solve our first problem first--the dependency of the Fundraising Congress.

This dependency will perpetually block reform of any kind, since reform is always a change in the status quo, and it is defense of the status quo that the current corruption has perfected. For again, as Obama said:

If we're not willing to take up that fight, then real change--change that will make a lasting difference in the lives of ordinary Americans--will keep getting blocked by the defenders of the status quo.

"Defenders of the status quo"--now including the souls that hijacked the movement Obama helped inspire.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20100222/lessig

the solution is to take the business out of government.

the problem is they incorporated and the corporations took over all aspects of government.

I mean that to be read as "The corporation is the government".

the supreme court is not the top law in the land period. yet you get the idiot squads claiming they are.

the whole lot of them are the corporation doing corporationbusiness.

you buy a drivers license to do business with the corporation.

travel is free.

You let them enforce that forcing people to pay money to the "corporation" that is not just.

you meaning generically people at large, do not realize that we can completely clean up government by simply getting involved and doing the grand jury thing et al.

instead most people would rath er sit on boards and whine about the leftee rightee shit all day and point fingers and not get a damn thing productive accomplished but I am sure it makes them feel good.

I better finish what I was saying.

To be clear.... we need government to be of the people of the law of the land not government of the coporporate business.

I am not suggesting to do away with the business side of government but to put it back under the people.

right now the greatest tragedy in government is that they can slide between organic government and corporate at will and no one is the wiser because of the dualality.

in the corporation its all about contract and in the government its all about law.

So you have them sufficating the law side and hiding under the immunity corporate side, or vice versa when it suits them. depejnds on the situation.

combine that with the sytax terrorism they use against us in the legal system and its not wonder we are in the shape we are in.

the corps have proven they have no incentive to ever change in favor of the people.

why should they? whats in it for them?

not a damn thing!!!!!!! (except a good laugh on us)

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 2/4/2010 10:54:15 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 12

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 10:57:32 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

But I'm not trying to show anyone anything. I quit. I'm done. I'm through voting for people I know are corrupt and incompetent just to keep other people who are even more corrupt and incompetent from getting into office, and hoping that the corrupt and incompetent people I voted for do less damage than the other corrupt and incompetent people would have done. Both parties represent corporate interests first and foremost, not my interests. The system is completely and irreparably broken. Voting for third party candidates accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I quit. I'm done. I'm not pretending to participate anymore.

quit will do a great job of getting you more of the same shit different day.

I gave you the solution, unless you want to pick up a gun its the only solution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAC6w_HC5Cw

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 13

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 11:01:08 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

But I'm not trying to show anyone anything. I quit. I'm done. I'm through voting for people I know are corrupt and incompetent just to keep other people who are even more corrupt and incompetent from getting into office, and hoping that the corrupt and incompetent people I voted for do less damage than the other corrupt and incompetent people would have done. Both parties represent corporate interests first and foremost, not my interests. The system is completely and irreparably broken. Voting for third party candidates accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I quit. I'm done. I'm not pretending to participate anymore.

quit will do a great job of getting you more of the same shit different day.

I gave you the solution, unless you want to pick up a gun its the only solution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAC6w_HC5Cw

I listened to that babbling buffoon for almost two minutes before my eyes glazed over and I started speaking Chinese. If the only other option is to pick up my gun, I believe I'll just head into the bedroom and blow my head off.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 14

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 11:05:33 PM

Archer

Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

So long as we allow the politicians to buy our votes with our own money through programs and subsidies (right or left) we'll ever get it back.

Allowing them to pull class warfare either direction, and both do it, allows them to maintain their power and even expand it.

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 15

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 11:07:15 PM

EbonyWood

Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAC6w_HC5Cw

He looked bored. Her tits were ok, I guess.

Nothing was said. A billion lawyers on the planet and they are the solution?

More likely that 9/11 was a conspiracy. Oops.

< Message edited by EbonyWood -- 2/4/2010 11:09:01 PM >

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 16

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 11:12:50 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAC6w_HC5Cw

He looked bored. Her tits were ok, I guess.

Nothing was said. A billion lawyers on the planet and they are the solution?

More likely that 9/11 was a conspiracy. Oops.

the government said it was!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to EbonyWood)

Post #: 17

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/4/2010 11:14:41 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

So long as we allow the politicians to buy our votes with our own money through programs and subsidies (right or left) we'll ever get it back.

Allowing them to pull class warfare either direction, and both do it, allows them to maintain their power and even expand it.

that is one seriously well directed shot! bravo!

this was kinda interesting for beginners.

http://www.teamlaw.org/HistoryOutline.htm

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 18

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/5/2010 1:08:49 AM

Brain

Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline

Ralph Nader's not a kook. Obama could have at least let him run GM. I don't think not voting is the answer.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 19

RE: How to Get Our Democracy Back - 2/5/2010 2:06:33 AM

Brain

Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline

TRY THIS WEBSITE/LETTER, LOOKS GOOD TO ME:

http://www.action.fairelectionsnow.org/

https://secure3.convio.net/change/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=579

Tell congress:
Stop the corporate takeover
The Supreme Court just gave corporations
the same political rights as you and me.
It’s time for the Fair Elections Now Act.
http://www.action.fairelectionsnow.org/

Tell Congress: Stop Corporate Control
In Citizens United v. FEC, the Supreme Court gave powerful corporate interests the same political participation rights as living, breathing people. The decision is judicial activism and arrogance at its worst.

Today, the Court has slammed the door in the face of Americans hoping for a political system that empowers people and not big corporations. Sign our petition. Tell Congress to fight back.
* = Required Fields
* Title:

* First Name:

* Last Name:

* Address 1:

Address 2:

* City:

* State / Province:

* ZIP / Postal Code:

Country:

Phone Number:

* Your Email:

Yes, I would like to receive periodic updates and communications from Public Campaign Action Fund.
Remember me. What's this?

* Subject:

Dear [Decision Maker],
* Please personalize your message

The Supreme Court has just given big corporations even more influence in our electoral process. The Court has overturned decades of precedent to make sure corporations have the same political rights as living, breathing people.

It's time for Congress to act swiftly and powerfully to make sure voters--not corporations--have control of our elections.

Act now - pass the Fair Elections Now Act.

https://secure3.convio.net/change/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=579

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

But I'm not trying to show anyone anything. I quit. I'm done. I'm through voting for people I know are corrupt and incompetent just to keep other people who are even more corrupt and incompetent from getting into office, and hoping that the corrupt and incompetent people I voted for do less damage than the other corrupt and incompetent people would have done. Both parties represent corporate interests first and foremost, not my interests. The system is completely and irreparably broken. Voting for third party candidates accomplishes absolutely nothing.

I quit. I'm done. I'm not pretending to participate anymore.

quit will do a great job of getting you more of the same shit different day.

I gave you the solution, unless you want to pick up a gun its the only solution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAC6w_HC5Cw

I listened to that babbling buffoon for almost two minutes before my eyes glazed over and I started speaking Chinese. If the only other option is to pick up my gun, I believe I'll just head into the bedroom and blow my head off.

quote:

Fair Elections Now Act

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 20

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