Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion



Message


UncleNasty -> Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/9/2010 1:10:15 PM)

The issue of housing and mortgage problems has mostly fallen beneath the radar. But the layers of fraud continue, and continue to expand, and grow.

Below is a link to a 5 minute clip that holds up one example of how banks continue to be unjustly enriched at the expense of homeowners and taxpayers.

http://www.thinkbigworksmall.com/mypage/player/tbws/23087/1447720

There is no information regarding the legitimacy of the underlying foreclosure proceeding that was the cause of the above short sale. However, based on the recent actions of Fannie and Freddy, it is a pretty safe assumption that there was fraud involved in the origination of the loan. For those unaware of this F&F have begun auditing mortgages in their portfolios for problems in the underwriting - essentially looking for fraud and violations of Federal and state lending laws. WSJ ran an article relating to such in the past couple of weeks and I'm sure it can easily be located through a simple search.

Contained in every 300-500 page Pooling and Servicing Agreement (PSA [this is in essence the contract between the loan originator, the securitizer, the loan servicer, the trust and trustee, the investors]) I have reviewed is language to the effect of  "If there are any problems  in the underwriting, or violations of state and/or Federal lending laws, then we aren't gonna be stuck with them. You (the originator) gotta buy them back from us."

Interesting too is that foreclosures are not ebbing or slowing as many believe they are, or should be. The most recent data I've reviewed is in the Chicago area through a study complied by the Woodstock Institute. The meat of the study is expressed in the "Executive Summary" found on page 3 of the 34 page paper.

The data indicates, in my opinion, that the "banks" have already taken most of the available properties in lower income brackets and areas, mostly urban, and are now moving into the more middle and upper income outlying suburban areas.

The following link will open a PDF file of the study:

http://tiny.cc/HkD6I

While the initial wave of sub-prime foreclosures seems to have crested, we are still expecting a dramatic increase in foreclosures from other loan sectors, most notably the ALT-A and Option ARM sectors. Some of these have begun to "reset" but that number is still low. The peak of both of these is anticipated in  mid 2011. It is also anticipated to drag conventional and prime sectors in tow as it builds to the peak.

Another area of foreclosures expected to grow in coming months is of people that can afford, and are still, making payments on their mortgages. Across the board home values have dropped considerably (this has a regional element but it is also true that almost all areas have reduced significantly), erasing any and all equity in many properties. The lack of economic/financial wisdom in continuing to pay on a note that is more than a property is worth is beginning to dawn on more borrowers. There is something of a small tide of these "underwater" homeowners that are simply walking away. As the ALT-A and Option ARM sectors deteriorate it is anticipated that more underwater homeowners will do this.

Another interesting bit of info came in the case of Deutsche v McRae, in New York. Those not familiar with judicial proceedings, specifically the ways foreclosures are being handled, will not recognize the significance of this decision. Allow me to opine, based on my readings of hundreds of cases and 2 years of deep research into the matter of foreclosures overall:

The court has said "The document you're putting in front of us now is one you just made up. It is a forged and fabricated piece of paper and doesn't reflect any transactions that have really occurred. So we're not gonna let you take these peoples house from them."

The decision contains the following quote:

"By way of the September 8, 2009 Order, this court previously determined that Plaintiff lacked standing, because it failed "to submit evidence of proper assignment/delivery of mortgage and note." Thereafter, Plaintiff submitted a second copy of the Note, which for the first time contained an endorsement by First Franklin, a Division of National City Bank of Indiana, to First [*4]Franklin Financial Corporation, and an endorsement in blank by First Franklin Financial Corporation. The endorsement in blank, however, is undated. In stark contrast, the copy of the Note attached to the complaint bears no such endorsements. Obviously, the endorsements were made in response to the September 8, 2009 Order, which post-date the commencement of this case (in January 2009), and are ineffective. [MERS v. Coakley, at 674; see also Kluge v. Fugazy, 145 AD2d 537 (2nd Dept. 1988) (absent assignment or delivery of the note, the assignment of the mortgage is a nullity)]. There being no evidence that the endorsements were made prior to the commencement of the action, Plaintiff failed to establish that it was in possession of the Note at the time it commenced this action." (emphasis added)

The entire decision is available through the New York State Law Reporting Bureau at the following link:

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/reporter/3dseries/2010/2010_20020.htm

What is tragic is that the fabrication of evidence happens in SO many foreclosure cases AND the majority of courts are either completely unaware, or they are aware and don't care. Significant in this New York decision is that while Plaintiff has been barred from this theft (a decidedly good thing) the court has not, and likely will not, initiate any investigations or prosecutions against the parties initiating unlawful foreclosure suits, fabricating and forging evidence to expedite both judicial and nonjudicial foreclosure cases, and the past, present and future grand theft Plaintiffs are involved in.


Lastly I want to make a few comments on the Federal programs started by both Bush (HOPE Now) and Obama (HAMP). Billions of dollars have been dedicated to "loan modifications." Yet the numbers of modifications attempted is dismally low, and the number of permanent modifications is even worse. Both programs, in my opinion, are doomed to fail, and have been nothing more than smoke screen providing an illusion something effective is going on.

Because the majority of loans made in the past decade have been "securitized" the alleged originating lender, often times the loan servicer, is no longer an owner or holder of the instruments (P-note and mortgage). As such they are no longer a party to the contract. The current owner and holder is the investor that has bought shares or certificates in the trust/pool. The identity of these investors is almost impossible to ascertain. Not that there is necessarily anything nefarious about that but without knowing who they are it is not possible to alter the terms of the contract.

The most basic of Contract Law 101 is that only the parties to a contract can alter the terms of that contract. Negotiation, mediation, arbitration.... Call it what you want. Only the parties to a contract can alter the terms of that contract. Period.

The servicer has no authority whatsoever to do such. Yet the programs of Bush and Obama rely on loan servicers to do exactly that - alter the terms of a contract to which they are no longer a party.

I really wonder how this most basic point of law has been completely missed by the literally thousands of people that have been involved in setting up both programs. I don't believe that is possible. Can you say "smokescreen" boys and girls?

Here is a link to current numbers relating to loan mods:

http://bailout.propublica.org/main/list/mortgage_servicers



It isn't over folks.


Uncle Nasty




InvisibleBlack -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/9/2010 1:14:18 PM)

I love you, man.




Termyn8or -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/9/2010 1:59:11 PM)

Though I generally don't do videos, you still pretty much made the point. Where's ya get that brain, it does seem to work well. My post may not address your point quite ad hoc, but is more of a blanket approach, and after thinking about it for a time I think a solution is possible. Just one law, not in conflict with the Constitution or any existing laws actually, this would be like a silver bullet. I have not thought out every promulgation of it as if yet, but right now it looks like a viable option which is heading in the right direction.

Just make a legal contract a legal contract. By that I mean that the term of the contract is stated at the beginning and the terms cannot be changed for the life of the loan. On an ARM, no changing the spread. Penalties for late pays and nonpays are spelled out clearly right at the beginning. No change in law nor policy can interfere with the right to contract. By extension, the contract cannot be changed. If it is breached then the obvious will happen. But that would squash all introductory rates and all that crap that got so many people in trouble.

I am normally against government intervention, but these people knew what they were doing by giving mansions to people on welfare. They knew that it would come tumbling down and probably had an idea of the costrs to society. They banked on the fact that they would get bailouts, literally. They planned for it and profited by it, it is fraud on a grand scale, hands down. Tough times demand tough action, but we are not going to get it until the big money no longer runs the government.

If you read just about any loan agreement these days and are able to comprehend what you read you will find that you are signing an agreement that can be changed at will by the other party, but not by you. You are obligated to do just about anything they say whenever, and you are legally powerless to stop it. Things are changing a bit, with courts ruling against some lenders and sherriffs refusing to evict homeowners and such.But these isolated temporary victories are not a solution.

If you want rid of a weed you attack the roots. We need a fundamental shift in the way things are done, and that means the whole shebang. From lending to investments, adjustments to the fractional banking system, and alot of change in governmental policy in more loosely related matters.

Let me put this to you. The voters in Ohio passed a very draconian anti smoking law, and then later decided to allow gambling. No matter how stupid that is because it is not the point, the measure was not struck down like pot in Oregon or euthenasia. The government did not defy the people on those two issues. I think shit is going to happen but I am not holding my breath.

But why couldn't the people pass a referendum in a given state to regualte the traffic of mortgages more effectively ? Insist on certain things. Of course the federal government will strike it down claiming superior jurisdiction because usuallly the lender is across state lines, and if not, the money or ledger entry crossed state lines. But then we have what are called "home rule" states. Go to trial in one of those states and the Constitution simply doesn't apply. Now if they can do that, they can do this.

We certainly won't get any solutions from the best politicians money can buy.

T




Real0ne -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/9/2010 5:59:55 PM)

they sold the note you sign within 1 hour after you sign it. 
its unlawful to have a loan for more than 5 years.  the banking act.
no original note with "wet ink siggy" no proof of loan......get my drift  :)
ever notice only one person signs the note?  Hmm...
lots of people trashing martgage companies now days for fraud.




Termyn8or -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/9/2010 10:28:42 PM)

Settle Real. Nobody is going to understand that anymore than the tax deal. If I said, simple, you accuse them of fraud, threaten with legal action and demand all your other money back. They send you a piece of paper. You fucking know the procewss but when I put it that way nobody is going to understand it. (which is OK really)

For example, you and a few others have discovered some things about mortgages, after they're sold. Well I dunno exactly why, but when we bought this place they never sold the note, so all that means nothing. Likewise alot of people simply cannot do certain things. You can't be an OTR semi truck driver standing on your right to travel because you are operating in commerce. You can't be a non taxpayer and work for the government.

FWIW, in my view, your enthusiasm with these subjects suggests to me that you might not fully comprehend this. Meaning what you have to do and avoid doing FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE after you achieve non taxpayer status. I hope you do. It is a one way street and it only works once, but I'm sure you know that by now.

T




InvisibleBlack -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/10/2010 6:40:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

they sold the note you sign within 1 hour after you sign it. 



While it might not be an hour afterwards, within a month of refinancing my mortgage broker sold the mortgage to Fannie Mae.

I've read a number of things indicating that they're surreptitiously bailing out Fannie Mae behind the scenes, and in turn using Fannie Mae to funnel money to the big banks via credit default swaps - which are still going on. The derivatives market is as big as ever.

While the sub-prime mortgages have wrought their damage - I agree that there's still a wave of ARM-related instruments floating out there (all of which have been securitized) waiting out there and we haven't even begun to see the chaos in the commercial real estate sector play out. I also have yet to see any meaningful reform whatsoever in the mortgage market. It's not that better regulations and regukators are out there, it's that the banks aren't willing to loan money. Once they are, everything is going to be right back where it was previously.

Regarding illegal loan modifications (even if they're in your favor) - without a sort of smokescreen of hand-waving and ignoring certain rules, they couldn't securitize this stuff inthe first place. I mean, if a slice of your mortgage is in a tranche as the foundation of a credit swap - how many new parties are now involved in that contract!? Without the original parties' knowledge or consent!?




MzMia -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/12/2010 9:46:58 PM)

What an interesting thread Uncle Nasty!
I heard last year, that there would be another large wave of foreclosures occurring sometime during this year.

There is a lot going on in the credit, banking and housing industry, that the "average
joe" is totally clueless about.
   
I agree with both you and Invisible Black, it isn't over, in fact it is just beginning.
Great thread Nasty.




Termyn8or -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/12/2010 10:38:51 PM)

Mia, I don't bring certain things up, but I know what is going on. Business as usual.

Nobody can stop them, they will stop when there is nothing more to take. That's that.

I have my personal demise timed almost with the demise of many and I will come out ahead in the long run. What's more I am keeping my posse very close. Times will get tough and people will have to regroup. Armed or unarmed, we need to stick together, or we shall surely get stuck separately.

I won't elaborate on exactly what I have done or what I am doing, but it makes sense to me. For example sometime this year will be the time to stockpile propane and rejet everything for it. To begin honing my machining skills. To stockpile staples and water and a few other things. Perhaps a whole house generator. Another deepfreeze and one more fridge I think. One more car, maybe a truck. Plant a garden. (with non-cloned seeds)

I can't predict the exact date. But the time does draw near, and I want to be ready enough to at least trade for what I need. For that I need assets, more assets than I personally need really. Others can trade me goods and services for mine, so money means nothing. Right now money is only good to me for one reason. It is a valid medium of exchange. Once that has ceased to be, we are all in the same boat.

When the day comes, what will you give me for maing a part for your car, gun or furnace ? Your money is no good here, in fact it is no good anywhere. You got flour, corn, tomatoes, beef, peroxide, bandages, or other than that, what can you do for me ? You can be living under a bridge and when the day comes, your status is no less than the richest banker in the world.

How does that grab ya ?

T




MzMia -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/12/2010 10:48:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Mia, I don't bring certain things up, but I know what is going on. Business as usual.

Nobody can stop them, they will stop when there is nothing more to take. That's that.

I have my personal demise timed almost with the demise of many and I will come out ahead in the long run. What's more I am keeping my posse very close. Times will get tough and people will have to regroup. Armed or unarmed, we need to stick together, or we shall surely get stuck separately.

I won't elaborate on exactly what I have done or what I am doing, but it makes sense to me. For example sometime this year will be the time to stockpile propane and rejet everything for it. To begin honing my machining skills. To stockpile staples and water and a few other things. Perhaps a whole house generator. Another deepfreeze and one more fridge I think. One more car, maybe a truck. Plant a garden. (with non-cloned seeds)

I can't predict the exact date. But the time does draw near, and I want to be ready enough to at least trade for what I need. For that I need assets, more assets than I personally need really. Others can trade me goods and services for mine, so money means nothing. Right now money is only good to me for one reason. It is a valid medium of exchange. Once that has ceased to be, we are all in the same boat.

When the day comes, what will you give me for maing a part for your car, gun or furnace ? Your money is no good here, in fact it is no good anywhere. You got flour, corn, tomatoes, beef, peroxide, bandages, or other than that, what can you do for me ? You can be living under a bridge and when the day comes, your status is no less than the richest banker in the world.

How does that grab ya ?

T


[sm=whoa.gif]
wow, I wasn't really thinking along those lines.
If things get to that point, I will have to manage to come stay with you or prepare

to go meet my maker I guess!
[sm=goodnight.gif]




CountrySong -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/12/2010 11:04:51 PM)

MzMia - There is a lot going on in the credit, banking and housing industry, that the "average joe" is totally clueless about.
Interesting thing is that the Average Joe did not care enough to get educated enough to not sign those mortgages in the first place! The kowledge was all there - freely available. No one cared while everything was going great but now everyone wants to point fingers and say "poor me look what these greedy people did to me!"
Listen - If someone sends you an email that says that you can help them get millions out of a secret bank account left by some recently dead person and you send them thousands of dollars; then who is at fault them for being crooks or you for being stupid! I vote for the latter.
The truth about the mortgage scam is that millions of Americans got GREEDY! They bought properties and signed mortgages while ingoring financial common sense and not getting educated. On top of that we were in a financial boom and everyone was making money but instead of saving it they spent it. Now they are paying the price!
It's called the University Of Hard Knocks. We will survive. The nation will survive. Inflation will be used to manage the damage and life will go on! It has happened before and it will happen again based on history; because, people don't learn about money, don't stay educated about money, and don't stay responsible with money.




Termyn8or -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/12/2010 11:15:36 PM)

We will be pillaged and pludered until we find a way to stop it.

T




Real0ne -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/12/2010 11:29:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty
The decision contains the following quote:

"By way of the September 8, 2009 Order, this court previously determined that Plaintiff lacked standing, because it failed "to submit evidence of proper assignment/delivery of mortgage and note." Thereafter, Plaintiff submitted a second copy of the Note, which for the first time contained an endorsement by First Franklin, a Division of National City Bank of Indiana, to First [*4]Franklin Financial Corporation, and an endorsement in blank by First Franklin Financial Corporation. The endorsement in blank, however, is undated. In stark contrast, the copy of the Note attached to the complaint bears no such endorsements. Obviously, the endorsements were made in response to the September 8, 2009 Order, which post-date the commencement of this case (in January 2009), and are ineffective. [MERS v. Coakley, at 674; see also Kluge v. Fugazy, 145 AD2d 537 (2nd Dept. 1988) (absent assignment or delivery of the note, the assignment of the mortgage is a nullity)]. There being no evidence that the endorsements were made prior to the commencement of the action, Plaintiff failed to establish that it was in possession of the Note at the time it commenced this action." (emphasis added)

The entire decision is available through the New York State Law Reporting Bureau at the following link:

http://www.courts.state.ny.us/reporter/3dseries/2010/2010_20020.htm



I wonder if we know each other in another life LOL

Great post and here are a couple additives.

First; the banking act in what 1889 maybe?  I forget but they cannot "lawfully" give out a loan for greater than 5 years.

Next there is only one signature on the contract; yours

Next: they monetize and sell the note with your wet ink signature before the ink is dry.

Next: If they cannot produce the wet ink signature they have no proof in court you took out the loan.

Next: in a fiat currency situation you cannot pay a debt therefore there due consideration is impossible.

Finally the note you sign is? "a promissorry note".

Starting to get a really clear picture where I am going with this? 

Good post man!
Cheers!




Real0ne -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/12/2010 11:34:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Nobody can stop them, they will stop when there is nothing more to take. That's that.

T


Term we stopping them, or let me put it like this we are making them hurt really bad.


Hell I will give you a small example.

The mortgage company is being pricks about giving me a certified release of lien.

In my Sovereign capacity I will give them 20 more days and send a courtesy letter (NOTICE:) to them letting them know I will be dropping a lien on their asses for a kool million if they do not finalize the deal since I held up my end.  So either way I dont care what they do.  These people usually wake up since they ahve been dealing with a lot of us lately.  Government on theother hand is pretty slow to come around because most americans are frankly so cluless about it and like dumbasses just pay and pay and pay LOL.




subfever -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/12/2010 11:54:07 PM)

A few interesting tidbits and footnotes here:

http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/dollar-deception.php




Real0ne -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/13/2010 12:14:10 AM)

yuppers!

thats why all these us citizens are enemies of the state.

They use federal reserve notes for money and as I explained in a very simple example I gave several hindred posts ago they are creating a debt that can never be paid back.

First you cannot pay a debt back with a "promissory note" and a federal reserve note is a promise to pay in the future the par value of 1 dollar.

Next the only way you can get more FRN's to pay the "interest" is to continually put more into the system and of course the more you put in the system the less you can buy with the dollars you have. (inflation)

People are really ignorant to money.   They think that prices go up when the reality is that the value of the money is going down and you ahve to fork out more of it.

The evil is if you have 100 dollar bill that you earned in 2000 and lost it and you just found it yesterday you can only buy 50-60% with it today than if you spent it right away in 2000.

Same of course go for your 401k!   You gotta subtract inflation from what you think you have in there.

I once worked out the numbers and if yo put 1 million dollars in the bank in 1933 and earned 6%, paid 20% tax on the profits and cashed it in, in 2007 I think, you would have had roughly 1/2 million left.

They got you all by the balls and few people even have a clue and THAT is only the zit on the gnats ass on iceburg.

Welcome to the the (Leviticus monetary system), Rothschild European banking system combined with the King/Queen of englands commercial law.

Nice crowd that in combination has stealing your property and hard earned labor down to a masterful science.










pahunkboy -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/13/2010 4:34:24 AM)

that does it.

my cat is going to be highly upset over this.




thornhappy -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/13/2010 7:17:00 AM)

The reason foreclosures are not leveling off is due to unemployment.




Real0ne -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/13/2010 7:24:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

The reason foreclosures are not leveling off is due to unemployment.


another reason is due to inflation and the cost of living whereas the wage did not keep up with the inflation.

Especially for those who bought homes squeezed it a bit tight on the funds and at a distance from work and now pay double every day for gas and other costs of living.

Few factor in the devaluation of the dollar and those who do rarely expect 50% in 10 years.




Termyn8or -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/13/2010 7:44:14 AM)

"First you cannot pay a debt back with a "promissory note" "

Don't use that argument. You agreed to remit a specific number of FRNs every month, regardless of their value.

I can think of too many counters against it in so few seconds just forget about it. You know of the futures market and speculation right ? Wheat can be paid back with aluminum, pork bellies can be paid back with oil. This is all on paper of course.

But if I loan someone a joint, I want a joint back, not FRNs. A verbal contract to be sure, but a contract nonetheless.

The only thing that can work is the wet ink theory. On the bright side, if the wet ink theory works for the commoner, Hickory, Slickory and Doc of the federal government should be able to do wonders with the national debt. If only they worked for us.

T




Real0ne -> RE: Conceived in Fraud - Helped by the FDIC (2/13/2010 7:55:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"First you cannot pay a debt back with a "promissory note" "

Don't use that argument. You agreed to remit a specific number of FRNs every month, regardless of their value.

I can think of too many counters against it in so few seconds just forget about it. You know of the futures market and speculation right ? Wheat can be paid back with aluminum, pork bellies can be paid back with oil. This is all on paper of course.

But if I loan someone a joint, I want a joint back, not FRNs. A verbal contract to be sure, but a contract nonetheless.

The only thing that can work is the wet ink theory. On the bright side, if the wet ink theory works for the commoner, Hickory, Slickory and Doc of the federal government should be able to do wonders with the national debt. If only they worked for us.

T


Term....

Millions are being discharged every week, and its being done by using their own law against them.

Next regardless of agreement, you can agree to pay frns but after all those frns are handed over your debt is not paid.

You can pay them a million more frns than you agreed and your debt is not paid.   Satifying the note and paying a debt are entirely two different things.

Its something people need to be aware of.  That and they share joint tenancy of their home with the state in what is called a fee simple deed that the bar association has pushed off as the highest for of title when allodial is the highest form of title.

Eminent domain does not work with allodial title.  The proof is you pay taxes on the property even if you reject all services etc.




Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875