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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 3:01:34 PM   
domiguy


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Ike killed a million Germans.....Yay!!!!!

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 3:03:41 PM   
DarlingSavage


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


I didn't realize the purpose of capitalism was to concentrate wealth in the hands of a few, I thought that was part of the consequences. Those with the desire, talent and willingness will amass wealth. I could be wrong.


...i don't think capitalism has a purpose. It's just an idea, not an entity. However, the consequence of unfettered capitalism is, sure as shit, the concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands.
Now, you go on to suggest that desire, talent and willingness will amass wealth. Thing is, in that idealised pure capitalist society, there have to be losers in order for there to be winners. Let's, for the sake of argument, assume that all the members of that society have all three of those qualities in equal measure. They wont all amass wealth equally, over time the wealth will concentrate in the hands of fewer and fewer people. That's because wealth distorts the exercise of those qualities. Let's say that in this idealised society there are just five people. Person number one wins the first round of economic activity, they are lucky and their deals come out on top. They now have more wealth going into round two than the other four people. Therefore they need to exercise less desire, talent and willingness to break even than the other four. The other four have to show more desire, talent and willingness than person one to achieve the same result. A few iterations later and the four who lost the first round have absolutely no chance to beat person number one, the amount of wealth they have simply can not compete with the amount of wealth number one has. It's no longer about desire, talent and willingness. It's now about having access to the tools to exercise it.
This is why capitalism is often referred to as unfair. A better word would unjust. Someone from a very poor background has much less chance to leverage their desire, talent and willingness into wealth, than someone from an advantaged background. There is the odd exception, but they really are exceptions. Without some sort of mitigating factor, capitalism over time is inherently unjust. However, equality of opportunity can be more nearly achieved if capitalism is tempered with an amount of socialism....if the state puts a thumb on the scales in order to let the desire, talent and willingness of those who start with less have a chance.
However, without capitalism there can be a problem with motivation. So it's important to find a blance between the two. Capitalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive doctrines, if the desired end result is for all the people to be the best that they can be.


Ditto on all that, except I'm not in agreement with the motivation part, though. I don't know, I'm tired, and I think I've used up all my brain cells for one day. But I did want to commend you on your input.

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 3:05:58 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


I didn't realize the purpose of capitalism was to concentrate wealth in the hands of a few, I thought that was part of the consequences. Those with the desire, talent and willingness will amass wealth. I could be wrong.


...i don't think capitalism has a purpose. It's just an idea, not an entity. However, the consequence of unfettered capitalism is, sure as shit, the concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands.
Now, you go on to suggest that desire, talent and willingness will amass wealth. Thing is, in that idealised pure capitalist society, there have to be losers in order for there to be winners. Let's, for the sake of argument, assume that all the members of that society have all three of those qualities in equal measure. They wont all amass wealth equally, over time the wealth will concentrate in the hands of fewer and fewer people. That's because wealth distorts the exercise of those qualities. Let's say that in this idealised society there are just five people. Person number one wins the first round of economic activity, they are lucky and their deals come out on top. They now have more wealth going into round two than the other four people. Therefore they need to exercise less desire, talent and willingness to break even than the other four. The other four have to show more desire, talent and willingness than person one to achieve the same result. A few iterations later and the four who lost the first round have absolutely no chance to beat person number one, the amount of wealth they have simply can not compete with the amount of wealth number one has. It's no longer about desire, talent and willingness. It's now about having access to the tools to exercise it.
This is why capitalism is often referred to as unfair. A better word would unjust. Someone from a very poor background has much less chance to leverage their desire, talent and willingness into wealth, than someone from an advantaged background. There is the odd exception, but they really are exceptions. Without some sort of mitigating factor, capitalism over time is inherently unjust. However, equality of opportunity can be more nearly achieved if capitalism is tempered with an amount of socialism....if the state puts a thumb on the scales in order to let the desire, talent and willingness of those who start with less have a chance.
However, without capitalism there can be a problem with motivation. So it's important to find a blance between the two. Capitalism and socialism are not mutually exclusive doctrines, if the desired end result is for all the people to be the best that they can be.


So you suggest that the only way to make things fair is for the government to hold down those that are born into a position that is deemed to have better oppurtunity? This is part of the problem with your argument, it implies that it is easier to hold back success so that the "losers" are just as equal. Maybe during the winter olympics we should have the Canadiens wear dull skates to even things out for those countries that aren't born into the same oppurtunities?

There are just as many examples of those from wealthy families that will blow the load because they lack the tools required to increase or keep their wealth. While the challenges may be different, let us not pretend that there aren't challenges to maintaining wealth.

I do agree that there is no exclusive answer to creating the perfect society. However, I am pretty damn happy with the results of capitalism and the benefits it has had on society.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 3:10:13 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


So you suggest that the only way to make things fair is for the government to hold down those that are born into a position that is deemed to have better oppurtunity?



...i'm sorry Thadius but i think you're being intentionally dense. i didn't suggest that the state should use its hand to hold people down. i explicitally said it should use its hand to help people up. To suggest that the latter is synonymous with the former is utter tosh. You're buying into the idea that wealth is always relative. That to help someone off the floor means that, somewhere, you're kicking someone off a chair. Utter bollocks.

If you're going to read what i wrote and simply parrot the usual anti-socialist dogma, then you're far less honourable than i thought you were. Far less.

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 3:15:25 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


So you suggest that the only way to make things fair is for the government to hold down those that are born into a position that is deemed to have better oppurtunity?



...i'm sorry Thadius but i think you're being intentionally dense. i didn't suggest that the state should use its hand to hold people down. i explicitally said it should use its hand to help people up. To suggest that the latter is synonymous with the former is utter tosh. You're buying into the idea that wealth is always relative. That to help someone off the floor means that, somewhere, you're kicking someone off a chair. Utter bollocks.

If you're going to read what i wrote and simply parrot the usual anti-socialist dogma, then you're far less honourable than i thought you were. Far less.

My apologies for where my mind went with your post. I misunderstood your meaning. I allowed another post to color my response. The other post suggested that for there to be winners there had to be losers, and thus the words I typed.

I am still not sure that it is the governments job to pick somebody up. However, I would agree that allowing them access to those oppurtunities could fall into their hands (schooling deseg. comes to mind).

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 3:21:34 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

quote:

Could you please define fairly? Is it the same sort of thing that was discussed in Animal Farm "All animals are equal, some are more equal than others"?

I didn't realize the purpose of capitalism was to concentrate wealth in the hands of a few, I thought that was part of the consequences. Those with the desire, talent and willingness will amass wealth. I could be wrong.


Animal Farm is a story. Of course, I think it was intended to illustrate how when power is concentrated in the hands of a few, it can really go to their heads. The animals in Animal Farm started out with a pretty good idea, but then the wrong people got placed in positions of power and it turned into a disaster. Much like Communism under Stalin. Lenin was about to demote Stalin, but he passed away before he could do it. He wanted to demote Stalin because it was already obvious that he was a lunatic that was already abusing what power he had. Communism started out as a good idea with altruistic motives, however, I think they made a mistake by suggesting concentrating power into the hands of a few. That's always a mistake.

However, I think they were right on about Capitalism's ever increasing need to exploit more and more resources.
A spectre is haunting...



a great author for sure. you know he was harassed bigtime by the powers the be for his writings.

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 3:21:55 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


My apologies for where my mind went with your post. I misunderstood your meaning. I allowed another post to color my response. The other post suggested that for there to be winners there had to be losers, and thus the words I typed.

I am still not sure that it is the governments job to pick somebody up. However, I would agree that allowing them access to those oppurtunities could fall into their hands (schooling deseg. comes to mind).


...oh i've made the same error in the past, i apologise for my less than amicable words.

i think, as in many of these discussions on these fora, that the wall we hit is the role of the state. Some actively want to decrease that role, as an ideological ideal......some want to increase it for the same sort of reason.

The reason i suggest that its the role of the state to try to create equality of opportunity (and not redistribution of wealth, thats not my bag at all) is because, pragmatically, no-one else can do it. If a society does not, at least, strive for equality of opportunity then it is, in my mind, fundamentally unjust.

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 3:24:18 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Ike killed a million Germans.....Yay!!!!!




yay for the banks....

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 3:29:13 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

You completely skipped the 2 other qualifiers, desire and willingness.

As for your hypothetical at the end, all I can say is that society seems to think so, otherwise folks would not pay the prices that they pay. Is that right? Who knows. That same research scientist could wind up unleashing the next supervirus that takes out all of humanity.

Then again I suppose you are in favor of the Feds setting market prices for what each person is paid by a particular industry.


Desire and willingness huh?

Maybe we should start a poll and see how many people do not have the desire and willingness to be wealthy?  Do you think many will say no? 

But most people are able to see beyond that to more important things.  Yet our culture conditions us to worship the wealthy as "successes" while dismissing those who do far more important things.

And no, I don't think society does think so, it's just that we have been given no choice.

If we go back to the idea of a poll, do you really believe that most people will say that an 18 year old, straight out of high school, was worth a $90 million Nike contract before he ever signed a NBA contract?

We are rewarding him for his success at putting a ball through a hoop while people doing life-saving jobs like paramedics, police, firefighters, and even doctors are paid a relative pittance.

Says a lot about how skewed our priorities are. 

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 3:42:41 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

You completely skipped the 2 other qualifiers, desire and willingness.

As for your hypothetical at the end, all I can say is that society seems to think so, otherwise folks would not pay the prices that they pay. Is that right? Who knows. That same research scientist could wind up unleashing the next supervirus that takes out all of humanity.

Then again I suppose you are in favor of the Feds setting market prices for what each person is paid by a particular industry.


Desire and willingness huh?

Maybe we should start a poll and see how many people do not have the desire and willingness to be wealthy?  Do you think many will say no? 

But most people are able to see beyond that to more important things.  Yet our culture conditions us to worship the wealthy as "successes" while dismissing those who do far more important things.

And no, I don't think society does think so, it's just that we have been given no choice.

If we go back to the idea of a poll, do you really believe that most people will say that an 18 year old, straight out of high school, was worth a $90 million Nike contract before he ever signed a NBA contract?

We are rewarding him for his success at putting a ball through a hoop while people doing life-saving jobs like paramedics, police, firefighters, and even doctors are paid a relative pittance.

Says a lot about how skewed our priorities are. 



There ya go again seperating what was said. I believe that all 3 factors are relevant to becoming wealthy.

The poll you suggest happens every day and every year. It occurs everytime one of those pairs of shoes is purchased, everytime one or more of those tickets (with rising prices to pay for those insane salaries) are purchased. If you want test your theory and see where people prefer to put their money (rightly or wrongly) setup a website asking folks to donate the money they spend on sports or shoes to a fund to divide up amongst the careers you listed.

I suppose that is why I have been enjoying watching some of the minor leagues in various sports over the last few years; I enjoy watching the games played with heart and because of enjoyment and not exclusively for the paycheck.

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 6:30:26 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

real-   these bumpkins and slicksters know it all.  You are a threat to their mental well being.


oh horseshit.

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 11:18:07 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

quote:

Do you believe in capitalism? The existance of it? If you do try trading the markets sometime. :)

There is no such thing in this world at this time.


First of all, it's spelled "existence".

Secondly, yes, the sad consequences of capitalism are pervasive. The cartoon I posted previously gives a very accurate description of capitalism. I also agree with rulemylife on the fact that there are lots of people who work tirelessly to aid society and benefit humankind, but in this society, we reward those that make the most money, regardless of how they amassed such wealth.


thanks for the spelling correction but you know as a rule I dont give a hit because even though they have spell checkers I just bang it out and how it goes on really dont matter.  You understood it and thats all that counts :)  Now if this were a brief thats another story..LOL

My point is that the marlets are 200% controlled!  I dont even know 99% of the tickers I trade much less their prospectus, its a waste of time.

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 2/10/2010 11:19:03 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 11:23:37 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne



Every day thread after thread about this matter.  You all see it.  You all know it.  You do not know what to do about it, though you think its curable at the voting booth. (dream on).  Boths side of the isle fuck it up worse than their predecessors.

Listen to this speech and take note of the 1958 prophesies that we are living today!

Mind blowing speech by Robert Welch in 1958 predicting Insiders plans to destroy America
Is it time to start laughing at the retards that laugh at conspiracies calling them all "theories"?

Welcome to a "conspiracy" period.

Hey its tax time! woohoo!




That's way off, pandering to big business is a conservative/capitalist activity. Socialism wishes to distribute wealth fairly among the masses, it's capitalism that seeks to concentrate wealth in the hands of a few. Everything he's saying is an utter oxymoron. He clearly doesn't understand socialism, he's just afraid of communism, or rather, he desires to instill fear of communism. He's a fear monger, pure and simple.

quote:

The only quotation I've seen from the lad was that line he nicked from the Bagavad Vita, though.

It's Bhagavad-Gita.




I am forced to agree with you that his labels are not bang on...BUT the problems we are facing today are bang on!


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DarlingSavage)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 11:31:07 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

quote:

Could you please define fairly? Is it the same sort of thing that was discussed in Animal Farm "All animals are equal, some are more equal than others"?

I didn't realize the purpose of capitalism was to concentrate wealth in the hands of a few, I thought that was part of the consequences. Those with the desire, talent and willingness will amass wealth. I could be wrong.


Animal Farm is a story. Of course, I think it was intended to illustrate how when power is concentrated in the hands of a few, it can really go to their heads. The animals in Animal Farm started out with a pretty good idea, but then the wrong people got placed in positions of power and it turned into a disaster. Much like Communism under Stalin. Lenin was about to demote Stalin, but he passed away before he could do it. He wanted to demote Stalin because it was already obvious that he was a lunatic that was already abusing what power he had. Communism started out as a good idea with altruistic motives, however, I think they made a mistake by suggesting concentrating power into the hands of a few. That's always a mistake.

However, I think they were right on about Capitalism's ever increasing need to exploit more and more resources.
A spectre is haunting...


How about I fill you in?

Inability to pay the bills and operating in bankruptcy as we have been literally since our inception but totally since fdr is a black hole as I demonstrated  in a post weeks ago.

The neet thing is that many truths are brought to us through scifi! 

The wizard of OZ is about tha monetary system, the matrix is about law, government and the crem de la crem of the elite, and there are many others, conspiracy theory, 1600 whatever by willis and so forth and so on.   Hell our current monmetary system is leviticus right out of the bible!   Programmed failure without expansion!

Had to chuckle a bit seeing you bring up stories as its amazing how even chilrens stories go right over most peoples heads.





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 2/10/2010 11:33:08 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DarlingSavage)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/10/2010 11:56:11 PM   
DarlingSavage


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quote:

Had to chuckle a bit seeing you bring up stories as its amazing how even chilrens stories go right over most peoples heads.


I didn't bring up this story, Thadeus did. I simply relayed the meaning and what actually occurred since there seemed to be some misunderstanding with that. The other "story" I refer to is called The Communist Manifesto written by Karl Marx in 1848, I believe.

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/11/2010 5:42:50 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

real-   these bumpkins and slicksters know it all.  You are a threat to their mental well being.


oh horseshit.




--here comes one now-

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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/11/2010 7:38:30 AM   
cuckoldmepls


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“If I were given the power to take down a nation, how would I do it?”

Control the nation’s monetary system. Tax the population, incurring
massive debt. Institute various handouts. Kill the unions that demand
livable wages, medical benefits and pensions. Close down local industries,
and ship them overseas, if workers balk at lower wages… Shut down mills,
plants and shops and send them to foreign lands where labor costs are mere
pennies. Import foreign workers for one third of American wages.

Move major decision making to the executive branch, using Presidential
Directives and Executive Orders. Pit American workers against immigrants to
keep the focus off the various trade agreements; the more hatred and chaos,
the better. The people must never see these issues as pertaining to class,
but rather intolerance, racism and bigotry.

Limit any real choices in voting, keeping the field limited to a two
party system, where only the wealthy need apply. Both parties will be given
scripted talking points so they don’t address the real issues facing
Americans. Keep up the pretense of a representative democracy.

Set up a dysfunctional Department of Education to dictate to the
states insane mandates, regulations and policies to dumb down the future
generation. A dumb population is an easily controlled population. Mental
illness centers will become a major part of education. Saturate the land
with drugs till the land is awash with mind numbing, brain damaging
chemicals. Name peace officers “law enforcers” and gradually militarize
them. Citizens should FEAR the police, not welcome their presence.

Allow the HMOs, Pharmaceuticals and Insurance companies to destroy
what was once an affordable medical system. The focus will be on profits
with exotic drugs being offered in lieu of preventive medicine. Make
retirement an impossibility for seniors and those with fixed incomes or
pensions. Encourage them to embrace “death with dignity.”

Institute perpetual war, borrowing billions for destruction, while
filling the coffers of corporate hucksters; destroy the known and familiar
by scattering the security of small town America with concrete box stores,
sprawl malls, fast food and appointed committees.

Waco, Ruby Ridge, school shootings, road blocks, identity theft, color
coded fear days, security cameras and drug sniffing dogs will be used to
cause confusion, resulting in more laws and violating the rights of a once
carefree population. Limit or totally prevent information, rational
discourse and debate on all sides of an issue. Corporate control of the
media is a must if citizens are taught what to think – not how to think.

Trade agreements will create massive unemployment, bankrupt farms,
imported food, foreclosures and homelessness.

Give away lands, roads, schools, utilities, bridges, rivers and water
systems to foreign investors. Use nature preserves, parks, heritage sites,
biospheres and buffer zones as collateral for trillions in debt. Keep the
multitudes distracted with ball games, theme parks, shopping malls,
expensive automobiles, environmental activism, OJ, Paris Hilton, pit bulls
and Rosie O’Donnell.

All authority and decision making should be in the hands of corporate
interests.

All this I would do if I were to destroy a nation and no one would
have a clue as to the final objective. The few who do object will be labeled
“conspirators, crazies, fringe, extremists, communists, un-American and
traitors.” Nobody wants to be labeled “other;” not in group think, that
would make that person “the turd in the punchbowl!”


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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/11/2010 7:42:15 AM   
mnottertail


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well, you got one little bit right, but mostly you dont have the brains to pour piss out of a boot.

our monetary system is being pretty well controlled by financing ideology wars that we shouldnt be in and our massive borrowing.

But as in everything else, there is no secret plot about this, we are doing it to ourselves.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/11/2010 8:07:40 AM   
cuckoldmepls


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I don't think they are intentionally trying to destroy America, but I do think they made the mistake of listening to Alan Greenspan who started all this free trade nonsense which will ultimately cause our demise.

Greenspan had two reasons for promoting free trade.

1) He said that by making everyone's economy interdependent on each other, each country would be less likely to step out of line, knowing full well that sanctions would destroy their economy.

2) He also believed that by allowing corporations to diversify their markets, each country would be less likely to suffer major recessions, since not all markets would go down at the same time. Theoretically, there would be as many markets going up as down which would stabilize the world economy.

Sounds good doesn't it? Turns out it's a failed policy? Why? Because if each nation doesn't have the ability to build their own economy like we did over the past 60 years, then they must feed off of the nations that do. The whole world has apparently decided to feed off of our economy, including china, and there is no possible way we can take on these many liabilities and survive.

In the end, once we collapse, then they will to. It was a mistake, but it can be corrected if we vote for "Fair" trade candidates. For example, we can either cancel NAFTA, the best choice, since they are obviously using it to create a North American Union without the consent of the American people (treason); or we can withdraw from the WTO and put a 10 to 20% import tax on any imported item purchased valued at over $500. This would keep the essentials such as food, clothing, and medicine cheap, but it would increase the cost of luxury items, such as plasma tv's, and cars. The money would go to the state, not the federal government, since we all know the more you feed the federal government, the more they will want.

If we choose to cancel NAFTA, how do we do that without collapsing both economies? Simple, we do it over a 10 year period by banning the imports of the companies who left first, which will force them to open up factories here again. We do not force them to close down factories in Mexico, since they may still be able to use those operations in Mexico and for exporting to other countries.

By the way, the audacity of Greenspan is beyond belief. He recently warned the democrats not to back away from free trade or there would be severe consequences. I'm pretty sure he meant severe consequences for the Chinese, because all I see are advantages. It takes 3 times as many employees to make a product here and sell it, than it does just to sell a foreign product. You should also remember that during the Clinton administration, before NAFTA, and China were signed, we had budget surpluses. Where did the budget surpluses go? Foreign employees, and foreign corporations don't pay U.S. income taxes. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what happened. The most logical approach is to go back to the time that created the budget surpluses. That was the Reagan era. It takes 5 to 10 years for the results of free trade agreements, and economic policies to become apparent, and Bill Clinton was the recipient of Reaganomics.

Anytime the government imposes fees, taxes or penalties on corporations, small businesses, financial institutions or energy companies, eventually they have no other choice but to pass these costs on to you the consumer. This is why they are called hidden or backdoor taxes, and the democrats deceived you by promising you a middle class tax cut, knowing full well that they would get even more money out of you in the long run from socialized medicine, and all their backdoor taxes. This is what democrats do people. They take and spend your money. When will you figure that out???

(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Mind blowing speech in 1958 predicting Insiders pla... - 2/11/2010 8:12:15 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
Yeah, well he was a Reaganomics guy, and appointed by him.

Take that to the bank, for what its worth. But he is only e pluribus unum of deficit fiscal policies.

You got that shit running rampant in government.



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to cuckoldmepls)
Profile   Post #: 60
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