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RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 5:33:28 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Ok, this may sound like a stupid question, but, im going to ask anyways.

Who is eligible for medicare? Does income matter? If not, why not? Are there income restrictions?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 5:55:41 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ok, this may sound like a stupid question, but, im going to ask anyways.

Who is eligible for medicare? Does income matter? If not, why not? Are there income restrictions?

Medicare is mostly for those 65 and older. It is available to some disabled people as well.

Medicaid is a much more limited plan for the poor.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 6:05:06 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I also like the racial slant given by your source. Bravo.

Heads back to discuss what to do with all his angry white friends now that we have been found out...


These are signs photographed at tea parties, for you and thishereboi:







  









And this proves that everyone in the teabag movement is racist how?

Oh, I forgot, everyone on the left is good, everyone else is bad. Damn, sorry bout that.



You use this ridiculous tactic anytime someone criticizes conservatives, Republicans, Limbaugh, etc.

Oh, so you proved there are some racists but not all of them are racists.

If people tolerate others walking around with signs like this in a movement they are part of then it tends to indict the whole movement as tolerating racism.

These are not isolated incidents.

I can post photos and videos all day long on here from various "tea parties" across the country.







(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 6:07:04 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		That, rule, i have to agree with. I would not want to be part of a gathering that has racial overtures of any kind. but thats just me.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 6:18:52 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Ken,

You asked for a solution, I provided at least the start of one. Indeed it will not be popular, but what is the alternative? 85% marginal tax rates across the board?

Even if we cut the entire defense budget, when the majority of baby boomers hit the Social Security and Medicare rolls that will be eaten up. Another fun spot to look at for some spending savings might be govt pensions and benefits (not veterans).

I still like the idea of some sort of hybrid retirement account, 60% going into the current system, 25% going into secured bonds (municipal and others of the like), 15% being able to be invested in some sort of mutual funds.

As for the access to medical care for more folks... I like the idea of more public clinics, they would be staffed by doctors and nurses who had their schooling paid or by the govt. (sort of like the grants for teachers). They would receive a living wage while working at the clinic for 4 or so years after graduating, this would also give them vital experience in the treatment, but also in helping to run the facilities. Fuzzy thought, but somewhere to start some dialogue from.

One last thing, if the tax cuts are responsible for the debt, why is it that revenues went up almost every year (last year being the exception) during this last round of em? I suggest that the low interest rates and the lower taxes are at least partly responsible for keeping us out of an even deeper depression. Let us not forget the 2 really big blips that occured early in the last administration that could have thrown us for a really good loop, namely Enron and 9/11. Those combined with the tech bubble and the housing bubble, were a serious disaster just waiting to happen.

Don't tak that last bit to mean I am in any way supportive of the out of control spending of the last president and congress, they are just as much to blame for this debt as anybody.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 6:29:07 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


You use this ridiculous tactic anytime someone criticizes conservatives, Republicans, Limbaugh, etc.

Oh, so you proved there are some racists but not all of them are racists.

If people tolerate others walking around with signs like this in a movement they are part of then it tends to indict the whole movement as tolerating racism.

These are not isolated incidents.

I can post photos and videos all day long on here from various "tea parties" across the country.




Using your standard could one then conclude that those associated with black liberation theology are also racists? Or all of the folks that showed up at the Million Man March are racists because of some of the groups that attended openly?

Of course that is not a fair judgement, and neither is the one you are casting on all of us that have attended some of these events. If I am now to be branded a racist because of some of the folks that attended other events, c'est la vie. Your judgement and approval don't really matter, and I honestly can't wait until you see the true nature of this groundswell. There are going to be lots of surprised Dems and Repubs come Nov.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 6:42:17 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
One last thing, if the tax cuts are responsible for the debt, why is it that revenues went up almost every year (last year being the exception) during this last round of em? I suggest that the low interest rates and the lower taxes are at least partly responsible for keeping us out of an even deeper depression. Let us not forget the 2 really big blips that occured early in the last administration that could have thrown us for a really good loop, namely Enron and 9/11. Those combined with the tech bubble and the housing bubble, were a serious disaster just waiting to happen.

You're simply wrong on this. FY 2002, the first year of the GWB tax cut, saw a 137 billion drop in revenue which greatly contributed to the 157 billion deficit for FY 2002.
http://www.ombwatch.org/node/955

Tax cuts never result in an increase in revenue. The Laffer curve is thoroughly disproven.

As to the rest I could care less for your ideas. What I'm asking is why don't we hear anything like that from the tea partiers. You're just evading the question.

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 6:51:14 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Hmmm, seems that you completely discounted the 3 things that happened during and just before the start of FY 2002 (which started Oct. 2001). The obvious being the hit in Sept, and then the Enron scandal in Oct. and WorldCom's bankruptcy later in 2002.

But hell those were just little things. I was mistaken about revenues going up in FY 2002. So what accounted for the numbers FY 2003 - FY 2008, since the tax cuts were in place why did revenues go up??

Obviously, your plan of bashing Bush and the bushies works much better than my trying to start a dialogue.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 6:54:05 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
One last thing, if the tax cuts are responsible for the debt, why is it that revenues went up almost every year (last year being the exception) during this last round of em? I suggest that the low interest rates and the lower taxes are at least partly responsible for keeping us out of an even deeper depression. Let us not forget the 2 really big blips that occured early in the last administration that could have thrown us for a really good loop, namely Enron and 9/11. Those combined with the tech bubble and the housing bubble, were a serious disaster just waiting to happen.

You're simply wrong on this. FY 2002, the first year of the GWB tax cut, saw a 137 billion drop in revenue which greatly contributed to the 157 billion deficit for FY 2002.
http://www.ombwatch.org/node/955

Tax cuts never result in an increase in revenue. The Laffer curve is thoroughly disproven.

As to the rest I could care less for your ideas. What I'm asking is why don't we hear anything like that from the tea partiers. You're just evading the question.

I guess the only answer to your question is that the press hasn't covered it. The medical solution is one of my ideas, but the Social Security one has been around for a couple years and has been talked about at the events I have been to.



_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 7:00:48 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Hmmm, seems that you completely discounted the 3 things that happened during and just before the start of FY 2002 (which started Oct. 2001). The obvious being the hit in Sept, and then the Enron scandal in Oct. and WorldCom's bankruptcy later in 2002.

But hell those were just little things. I was mistaken about revenues going up in FY 2002. So what accounted for the numbers FY 2003 - FY 2008, since the tax cuts were in place why did revenues go up??

Obviously, your plan of bashing Bush and the bushies works much better than my trying to start a dialogue.

In reality it took until 2005 for federal revenues to exceed 2001 in constant dollars. And while adjusted for inflation this doesn't account for the expansion of the population.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

You really should do your own research. Supply side theory is absolutely and completely discredited.

But you're still not dealing with the question, if the tea partiers aren't just bigots hiding behind faux patriotism why aren't there serious discussions of these topics going on in their gatherings?

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 7:02:16 PM   
xXsoumisXx


Posts: 339
Joined: 7/26/2009
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I gotta admit, im mixed on the tea baggers.

On one hand, its good that americans can come together to protest what they dont like. Im thankful i live in such a country that allows this. And often this kind of movement can get things done.

On the other hand, its worrisome that all the can do is come together and complain. No one is coming up with any solutions. As the saying goes... if you arent part of the solution...


See, when you (or anyone) say "Tea Baggers" I know that it will be a biased opinion, and I stop listening. They called themselves after the original Tea Party protesters becaue they were unhappy with the way they were being taxed without a say in how that tax money was spent..
and they are unhappy about the way tax money is being used as well.
If you can't be mature about the discussion, then I can't be bothered to listen.
That goes for everyone who uses that term for these protesters. It's imature and childish.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 7:02:25 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
One last thing, if the tax cuts are responsible for the debt, why is it that revenues went up almost every year (last year being the exception) during this last round of em? I suggest that the low interest rates and the lower taxes are at least partly responsible for keeping us out of an even deeper depression. Let us not forget the 2 really big blips that occured early in the last administration that could have thrown us for a really good loop, namely Enron and 9/11. Those combined with the tech bubble and the housing bubble, were a serious disaster just waiting to happen.

You're simply wrong on this. FY 2002, the first year of the GWB tax cut, saw a 137 billion drop in revenue which greatly contributed to the 157 billion deficit for FY 2002.
http://www.ombwatch.org/node/955

Tax cuts never result in an increase in revenue. The Laffer curve is thoroughly disproven.

As to the rest I could care less for your ideas. What I'm asking is why don't we hear anything like that from the tea partiers. You're just evading the question.

I guess the only answer to your question is that the press hasn't covered it. The medical solution is one of my ideas, but the Social Security one has been around for a couple years and has been talked about at the events I have been to.



So the media didn't cover your idea? huh

As to eliminating or privatizing SS, maybe you lived under a rock in 2005?

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 7:11:26 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		You asked why these things aren't being discussed, there are lots of solutions being discussed. As I stated, the privatizing SS hybrid was discussed at both events I attended, I even stated that it had been around for a couple of years, so what's with the under the rock crack? My thought is something I am still fleshing out, and trying to put some numbers to, before I present it as a viable option.

Like you said, all you have seen is hatred and the like at the events that you attended. I don't know what to say except my experiences were far different, maybe because I didn't go looking for the kooks.



_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 7:17:34 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xXsoumisXx


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I gotta admit, im mixed on the tea baggers.

On one hand, its good that americans can come together to protest what they dont like. Im thankful i live in such a country that allows this. And often this kind of movement can get things done.

On the other hand, its worrisome that all the can do is come together and complain. No one is coming up with any solutions. As the saying goes... if you arent part of the solution...


See, when you (or anyone) say "Tea Baggers" I know that it will be a biased opinion, and I stop listening. They called themselves after the original Tea Party protesters becaue they were unhappy with the way they were being taxed without a say in how that tax money was spent..
and they are unhappy about the way tax money is being used as well.
If you can't be mature about the discussion, then I can't be bothered to listen.
That goes for everyone who uses that term for these protesters. It's imature and childish.



Well, of course i will bow down to your superiority and make amends... actually, i think not. my response was mature, the term i used was given as a result of actions from the tea party movement. Or does the following picture not reflect that...


If they dont like the term, dont blame the rest of us. Protesters who burned flags in the 60's and 70's were called flag-burners. Some NOW supporters were called bra-burners because... you guessed it.. they burned their bras. They decided to send tea bags to Washington... tea baggers they are.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 2/11/2010 7:18:55 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to xXsoumisXx)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Bill O’Reilly Compares Tea Baggers to Vietnam War... - 2/11/2010 9:27:40 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

You asked why these things aren't being discussed, there are lots of solutions being discussed. As I stated, the privatizing SS hybrid was discussed at both events I attended, I even stated that it had been around for a couple of years, so what's with the under the rock crack? My thought is something I am still fleshing out, and trying to put some numbers to, before I present it as a viable option.

Like you said, all you have seen is hatred and the like at the events that you attended. I don't know what to say except my experiences were far different, maybe because I didn't go looking for the kooks.

All I did was walk around, look at signs and listeners to the speeches. I never heard anything on economics that wasn't supply side drivel, disproven as I showed you tonight. I did hear lots of birther nonsense. I did hear lots of fringe religious claims, America founded on christian laws etc.. There was various other conspiracy claims put forth, lots of NWO and various anti tax stuff. There were lots of anger and hate.

I casually questioned the one guy who was speaking about balancing the budget by cutting taxes and ending 'welfare' about the fact that the DoD budget was 9 times the size of the HHS budget and how getting rid of all of HHS while reducing revenue would reduce the deficit. I got an angry but nonsensical response and physical threats in reply.

Since this matches up precisely to many hundreds of other reports of tea party events I think it safe to assume it isn't an isolated event. When I question people who support the movement, lik you, i get vague assurances that racists aren't common, despite the overwhelming evidence of my own senses. I'm assured that substantive discussions are underway somewhere but when I query for details I get nothing. You tossed out free clinics staffed by doctors whose education was paid for by the public, which of course requires building many thousands of federal clinics nationwide, hiring support staff, acquiring diagnostic equipment etc., which is essentially a full on socialization of health care in the english style, which few if any socialists I know are in favor much less anyone more centrist than me. For SS and other entitlements you suggest privatization which was thoroughly rejected in 2005. The reasons are manifold. Many millions would be plunged into poverty if those checks stop or they don't become eligible when they expect them to. and the federal deficit would balloon even more if were to return every FICA tax payment to every person not yet retired. Fundamentally your SS plan is not workable and your HCR proposal goes far far beyond even single payer.

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 75
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