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PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs - Yah... - 2/11/2010 3:51:59 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		This proves doing anything bi-partisan with Republicans is not worth it.

PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs - Yahoo! News

It's a bipartisan jobs bill that would hand President Barack Obama a badly needed political victory and placate Republicans with tax cuts at the same time. But it has a problem: It won't create many jobs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100210/ap_on_bi_ge/us_what_jobs




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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 4:52:22 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Status: offline 		Exactly. Make it a Republican bill without input from the Dems if you want it to actually create jobs.

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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 7:06:16 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Here is the crux of any "jobs bill".

From your article:

quote:



As for the bill's effectiveness, tax experts and business leaders said companies are unlikely to hire workers just to receive a tax break.
Before businesses start hiring, they need increased demand for their products, more work for their employees and more revenue to pay those workers.


I heard the President in the State of the Union Address say that he was going to double exports by the end of the year. How the hell is he going to increase demand for products that much, let alone get them exported at a price that allows for hiring more employees?



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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 7:14:36 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		The GOP and Dem division has nothing to do with it.

Obama's staring at 10%+ unemployment and needs to do SOMETHING, whether it's effective or not.  So he and Congress rolled a bunch of pork into one huge bill and dubbed it a jobs package.

Just like the Patriot Act had nothing patriotic about it.




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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 7:27:02 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Public road works sounds like a good place to start, no?

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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 7:47:41 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		If we create 95,000 new full times jobs for a year, that probably
would HELP pull us out of this recession.

Democrats offer four-part job creation legislation - Feb. 11, 2010



< Message edited by MzMia -- 2/11/2010 7:57:49 PM >

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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 8:02:02 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
As for the bill's effectiveness, tax experts and business leaders said companies are unlikely to hire workers just to receive a tax break.
Before businesses start hiring, they need increased demand for their products, more work for their employees and more revenue to pay those workers.


WOT?

Business leaders (Teh very John Galtsian Gods of wisdom) say they aren't going to hire workers just to get a tax cut?

ZOMG!! Up is down, black is white! Next thing you know, they will ask the government to stimulate demand with spending!

CRAZINESS!!

(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 8:02:50 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I think increasing exports has to do with other countries bringing down trade barriers and getting the Chinese to change their currency as they are keeping it too low to make their goods cheaper and American and other countries goods more expensive.

The best way to increase the demand for products, so companies hire, is to increase the minimum wage. I would increase it to $10/hr. Now the working poor will have money to buy the things they need unlike with tax cuts for the rich and the rich just put it in the bank.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Here is the crux of any "jobs bill".

From your article:

quote:



As for the bill's effectiveness, tax experts and business leaders said companies are unlikely to hire workers just to receive a tax break.
Before businesses start hiring, they need increased demand for their products, more work for their employees and more revenue to pay those workers.


I heard the President in the State of the Union Address say that he was going to double exports by the end of the year. How the hell is he going to increase demand for products that much, let alone get them exported at a price that allows for hiring more employees?




(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 8:08:36 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline
Obama CAN do something effective if he listens to Robert Reich and Paul Krugman, experts in economics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

The GOP and Dem division has nothing to do with it.

Obama's staring at 10%+ unemployment and needs to do SOMETHING, whether it's effective or not.  So he and Congress rolled a bunch of pork into one huge bill and dubbed it a jobs package.

Just like the Patriot Act had nothing patriotic about it.





(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 8:12:42 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline
Right, the infrastructure is crumbling and it needs to be upgraded for the new economy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Public road works sounds like a good place to start, no?


(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 8:21:56 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		It doesn't matter what's in the bill just as long as it's Republican it will create jobs, must be a new economic theory.


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Exactly. Make it a Republican bill without input from the Dems if you want it to actually create jobs.


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 8:25:25 PM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Exactly. Make it a Republican bill without input from the Dems if you want it to actually create jobs.


Yes, we had eight years of proof how well that worked.

But, of course the economic problems only began when the Democrats took control of Congress. 

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 8:37:29 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I heard the President in the State of the Union Address say that he was going to double exports by the end of the year. How the hell is he going to increase demand for products that much, let alone get them exported at a price that allows for hiring more employees?


No. In five years. That's a 12% per year growth rate. Still ambitious.

Actually, exports have increased every month for the past eight months.

In 2009, that's $994.7 billion (and it's recently been adjusted up from that original estimate)--agricultural products (soybeans, fruit, corn) 9.2%, industrial supplies (organic chemicals) 26.8%, capital goods (transistors, aircraft, motor vehicle parts, computers, telecommunications equipment) 49.0%, consumer goods (automobiles, medicines) 15.0%.

And that's stuff made right here by U.S. employees on U.S. shores.

Only Germany (with higher wage rates) and China (with artificially low valued currency) exported more.

Comes down to comparative advantage.

Source: CIA World Factbook

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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 9:07:26 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		If ya want anything done right or unbiasedly...

get a robot to run the country. That is fairly unbiased.

Listen folks, the shit started going 'real foul' when humans decided they could command another through proximity of vital resources (and the division of such thereafter).

There are so many people, and such little resources.

Is it me or are there more crazed gunman toting around illogical ammunition? The ecology and economy of this planet will balance itself out through a blend of bloody competition or cooperative practices. War, Natural Disaster, Internal Pressures, Disintegration of Integrity. The process is far from over.

we need to have less people
we need to learn how to consume efficiently.

quote:

and don't give me this "What is this 'We' shit?"


We the People did this to Our own damn selves.


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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/11/2010 9:15:15 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

The best way to increase the demand for products, so companies hire, is to increase the minimum wage. I would increase it to $10/hr. Now the working poor will have money to buy the things they need unlike with tax cuts for the rich and the rich just put it in the bank.



Interesting premise, that flattening out income distribution and letting the have-nots have more will stimulate the economy more because the poor will spend it as soon as they get it.

Note that the standard conservative argument is exactly the opposite, that permitting wealth inequity is the driver that makes people want to start up and run businesses, and to perform on the job.

The rich actually don't bank money as much as buy stocks with it.  Another conservative premise is that the purchase of stock fuels the economy by providing equity, and that's the stated reason that cap gains tax rates are lower than income tax rates.

It'd be interesting to see if money spent on buying a company's products was a better simulator than equivalent money invested in the same company's stock.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/12/2010 5:57:34 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
As for the bill's effectiveness, tax experts and business leaders said companies are unlikely to hire workers just to receive a tax break.
Before businesses start hiring, they need increased demand for their products, more work for their employees and more revenue to pay those workers.


WOT?

Business leaders (Teh very John Galtsian Gods of wisdom) say they aren't going to hire workers just to get a tax cut?

ZOMG!! Up is down, black is white! Next thing you know, they will ask the government to stimulate demand with spending!

CRAZINESS!!


As discussed here, and as proven in the 70s, tax credits (especially temporary ones) dont stimulate net hiring. Business leaders arent doing anything but stating the obvious.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/12/2010 5:58:57 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Exactly. Make it a Republican bill without input from the Dems if you want it to actually create jobs.


Yes, we had eight years of proof how well that worked.

But, of course the economic problems only began when the Democrats took control of Congress. 



eight years of unemployment lower than the unemployment during the Clinton administration, despite the phony dot com jobs.

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/12/2010 6:43:30 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

eight years of unemployment lower than the unemployment during the Clinton administration, despite the phony dot com jobs.


No way.  Bush darn near became the fist President since Hoover to preside over a net loss of jobs during his first term.  And the Clinton economy was GOOD.  I still haven't gotten back to the pay level I had then.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/12/2010 6:54:58 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I think increasing exports has to do with other countries bringing down trade barriers and getting the Chinese to change their currency as they are keeping it too low to make their goods cheaper and American and other countries goods more expensive.

The best way to increase the demand for products, so companies hire, is to increase the minimum wage. I would increase it to $10/hr. Now the working poor will have money to buy the things they need unlike with tax cuts for the rich and the rich just put it in the bank.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Here is the crux of any "jobs bill".

From your article:

quote:



As for the bill's effectiveness, tax experts and business leaders said companies are unlikely to hire workers just to receive a tax break.
Before businesses start hiring, they need increased demand for their products, more work for their employees and more revenue to pay those workers.


I heard the President in the State of the Union Address say that he was going to double exports by the end of the year. How the hell is he going to increase demand for products that much, let alone get them exported at a price that allows for hiring more employees?







So you suggest that we are able to increase demand for a product by increasing the cost to make it. Also you are suggesting the best way to get companies to hire folks is to make it more expensive for them to hire those same folks. Very interesting logic, I have heard of voodoo economics, what do you call this plan?



_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: PROMISES, PROMISES: Jobs bill won't add many jobs -... - 2/12/2010 6:59:59 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		well, we need to beef up our exporting capability....not many companies in the US are able to go thru the hoops to export internally and they are unaware of government programs that help them by holding their hand thru the process.

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