When Socialists Ruled America (Full Version)

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AnimusRex -> When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 8:17:05 PM)

Also known as the 1950's. This graph from the Tax Foundation shows how tax rates have dropped over the years, to where the rich now pay just a tad more than their maids.

But that was a different time- we had a genuine Socialist/ Marxist/ Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower in office, and a black man in Kenya was already plotting to sire a radical who would continue the regime. Luckily, Ronald Reagan rode in on his white horse and said, "Mr. Eisenhower, tear down these tax rates!" and the people rejoiced.

But back to the present- it is obvious why tax rates absolutely must be dropped yet again- Do we want to return to the misery and economic poverty that wracked the land during the 1950's? For example, back then a CEO earned about 50 times what his lowest worker did; today, a CEO only earns 400 times his lwest worker. Does that sound fair? Hell no. It must be 1000 times, or else John Galt might walk away from his corner office!

[image]local://upfiles/280232/49F92F110BAB464D9B7D358676900CD1.jpg[/image]




Musicmystery -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 8:21:44 PM)

The federal government is also smaller as a percentage of population, but that just doesn't have that sound bite ring.

Nor does the reality that as federal taxes and size of government have dropped, state and local taxes and government have ballooned.

So we keep doing more of it.

[sm=dunno.gif]

Now on to ignoring health care while those rates rise.





kdsub -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 8:36:09 PM)

Just wondering how you think a nation determining a tax rate according to the income of its citizens equates with the definition of socialism.

Butch

ps...sorry meant for the op




Real0ne -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 8:42:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just wondering how you think a nation determining a tax rate according to the income of its citizens equates with the definition of socialism.

Butch

ps...sorry meant for the op


its actually feudalism.

If you look up income tax it is precisely what the kings/queens charged their chattel property, (serfs) for renting the land et al and still do to this day in england.

Dont ask for a citation thats right out of the exchequer 1000 AD. and if you have a good lawy library in town you will find it.






ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 8:45:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just wondering how you think a nation determining a tax rate according to the income of its citizens equates with the definition of socialism.

Butch

ps...sorry meant for the op


its actually feudalism.

If you look up income tax it is precisely what the kings/queens charged their chattel property, (serfs) for renting the land et al and still do to this day in england.

Dont ask for a citation thats right out of the exchequer 1000 AD. and if you have a good lawy library in town you will find it.





So your expertise is not limited to building fusion reactors on your back porch, evidently?




Arpig -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 8:45:16 PM)

[sm=abducted.gif]




MzMia -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 8:47:42 PM)

lol, Panda!

Real0ne has not paid taxes in years!
He knows the laws, especially the constitution, and he knows how

to avoid paying taxes!
You really, and I mean really, don't want to get him started on taxes.

We are the dummies, that pay taxes.

lol, fusion reactors, that was pretty funny.
 




rulemylife -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 8:48:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Dont ask for a citation thats right out of the exchequer 1000 AD. and if you have a good lawy library in town you will find it.



I just checked, my town doesn't have any lawy libraries.




MzMia -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 8:57:51 PM)

Rex, how do you feel about having a flat tax?

*Everyone is free to answer this question, also.




tazzygirl -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 8:58:05 PM)

Ahem

maybe this will be a good substitute citation.. seems as odd as his idea

http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/gould/part07.htm




AnimusRex -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 9:19:54 PM)

Actually, Mia, I think there is some merit to a flat tax. As MM mentioned, as Federal taxes have declined, state and local taxes have gone up.
Worse yet, the taxes have gone from open and clear, to hidden and subversive- meaning states and localities are charging ever more clever "fees" and charges to try and bring in income.

My complaint is that we have demonized taxes to the point where they have been separated from the good they produce. Everyone, Teabagges included, loves to drive on Federal highways, attend State schools, and demands that local governments create and maintain Parks; yet loathes paying taxes.

My point to all this was that we forget that there was a time when people understood that taxes and government produced things that were not as efficient as private things, but the widespread availability made them worth having.

For instance, long ago, many local governments had public swimming pools. Instead of individual citizens paying for their own pools, people swam in public pools.


This had several good effects- one was that even people who were poor felt enfranchised by society- they felt as though they had a stake in the community, and could take pride in it. When all pools become private, those who are left out are disenfranchised, and then everyone- rich and poor alike- turn their backs on the common good, and the sense of community fabric is shredded. Second, it was more efficient- instead of paying for your own private pool, which you only used a couple times a year, you could pay a smaller amount for a public pool, and leave the maintenance to someone else.

Today taxes are so taboo, roads, bridges, dams and parks are all failing, all over America for lack of tax revenue. While some people gather vast fortunes, even the rich drive along streets that are pitted and rutted with decay. Tom Friedman in the NYT wrote of how flying from Peking to New York was like going backward in time, that China feels like a first world country, while New York feels old and worn down.

Back when I was a conservative, we were accused of wnting to turn back the clock and live in the 1950's.

Considering that during that period we had high marginal tax rates, and 1/3 of all workers were in unions, and gas prices were regulated...

I wonder if that wouldn't be a good idea!



P.s. Its late, so I won't bother to open my copy of the 1,000 A.D. Exchequer, or the Domesday Census conducted by William the Conquerer. Maybe tomorrow.





kdsub -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 9:33:52 PM)

Since we are talking taxes...I vote for a consumer tax…drug dealers should pay taxes too.

Butch




MzMia -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 9:37:06 PM)

Thank you Rex, for such a well written and thoughtful response.
I hate all the "little" surcharge fee's, add-on fee's, and nickel and dime
fee's that we all have to pay.
 
I realize that we need to pay some sort of "tax" for roads, projects, parks,
schools, infrastructures, etc.
 
We need another method, paying a flat tax could be a very viable option.




Musicmystery -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 9:45:45 PM)

There's a reason Steve Forbes is for it.

A VAT, though, is something I could get behind.




Real0ne -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 9:48:13 PM)

a person I know of just went to court over taxes in florida and did a little research into the school tax.

In the process discovered the greater majoriy was being funneled out of the country.  Not sure where they intend to go with that but things are starting to heat up in the ole us of a! :)




philosophy -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 9:50:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just wondering how you think a nation determining a tax rate according to the income of its citizens equates with the definition of socialism.

Butch

ps...sorry meant for the op


its actually feudalism.

If you look up income tax it is precisely what the kings/queens charged their chattel property, (serfs) for renting the land et al and still do to this day in england.

Dont ask for a citation thats right out of the exchequer 1000 AD. and if you have a good lawy library in town you will find it.






...now i'm a fan of the TV show 'Fringe'. So what i want to know is when are you going back to your parallel universe?




MzMia -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 9:53:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

a person I know of just went to court over taxes in florida and did a little research into the school tax.

In the process discovered the greater majoriy was being funneled out of the country.  Not sure where they intend to go with that but things are starting to heat up in the ole us of a! :)


Call me a masochist for asking this, but I have a small masochistic side. [sm=banghead.gif]

If most of the tax revenues for schools are being funneled out of the country, where is the state getting the money
to pay salaries, build and repair schools and all the expenses associated with operating schools?

It costs easily 1 million dollars, to operate and run a  small  school, and I know that for a fact.




AnimusRex -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 10:07:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

There's a reason Steve Forbes is for it.

A VAT, though, is something I could get behind.


I actuallylike Bruce Bartlett's ideas for a VAT; except it is a complicated notion, difficult to explain simply, and in this political environment, it would be about a week before the meme was about how a VAT woould cause the government to kill Grandma.




AnimusRex -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 10:10:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
If most of the tax revenues for schools are being funneled out of the country, where is the state getting the money to pay salaries, build and repair schools and all the expenses associated with operating schools?



Lets start an over/ under pool on how many posts it will take RealOne to get a mention of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", or the Bilderbergs, or Obama.

I say 5 at most.




Real0ne -> RE: When Socialists Ruled America (2/11/2010 10:17:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

a person I know of just went to court over taxes in florida and did a little research into the school tax.

In the process discovered the greater majoriy was being funneled out of the country.  Not sure where they intend to go with that but things are starting to heat up in the ole us of a! :)


Call me a masochist for asking this, but I have a small masochistic side. [sm=banghead.gif]

If most of the tax revenues for schools are being funneled out of the country, where is the state getting the money
to pay salaries, build and repair schools and all the expenses associated with operating schools?

It costs easily 1 million dollars, to operate and run a  small  school, and I know that for a fact.


this is fresh off the press and I really dont have much information on it but when I get it and when if I can give details I will.

On a side note:

Frankly though everyone should at a minimum call up the county and city and request or demand in some cases to see the tax assessors roll. 

If you people seen all the shit that was on that roll that you are paying for you would fall over in shock.

Secondly you will not EVER get to see the money trail.   Meaining that they just give you summaries NOT detailed full disclosure.

Now the way I understood the government was supposed to operate is that I should be able to go in and inspect the books any time I the Sovereogn creator of said government wanted to inspect them.  After all I am the fucking creator of their corporation.

Try that some time.

Until then bend over cuz the mice will play.




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