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RE: When Socialists Ruled America - 2/11/2010 10:22:38 PM   
Fellow


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People are often lacking quantitative thinking. 10% Americans own most of the country's wealth. There are only to realistic ways: either to cut social services or to tax this wealth. All other options (government extra borrowing, VAT that hits poor the most) are much worse for the economy. One can not take money where there is shortage of it or debt. Destruction of the middle class leads to bad economy.

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: When Socialists Ruled America - 2/11/2010 10:26:31 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Rex, how do you feel about having a flat tax?

*Everyone is free to answer this question, also.


Well, if the question is open to everyone - then yes, I think there should be a flat tax on Rex. I'll need a little time to think it over, and get back to you with the rate that I feel would be most appropriate for him to pay.


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RE: When Socialists Ruled America - 2/11/2010 10:26:57 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The federal government is also smaller as a percentage of population, but that just doesn't have that sound bite ring.

Nor does the reality that as federal taxes and size of government have dropped, state and local taxes and government have ballooned.

So we keep doing more of it.



Now on to ignoring health care while those rates rise.




well thats not exactly correct.

are yo a us citizen? yes or no?

If yes you hold the federal office of person in addition are the chattel property of the federal government.

I swear I post the US Code and you people for whatever reason either dont believe it or dont bother to read it.

If no then you are a Sovereign, or National or some other form of good guy.   Until then you are the enemy of the state (see the trading with the enemy act), because you are using counterfeit money and you deserve to pay all the taxes they dump on you :)


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(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: When Socialists Ruled America - 2/11/2010 10:32:47 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just wondering how you think a nation determining a tax rate according to the income of its citizens equates with the definition of socialism.

Butch

ps...sorry meant for the op


its actually feudalism.

If you look up income tax it is precisely what the kings/queens charged their chattel property, (serfs) for renting the land et al and still do to this day in england.

Dont ask for a citation thats right out of the exchequer 1000 AD. and if you have a good lawy library in town you will find it.






...now i'm a fan of the TV show 'Fringe'. So what i want to know is when are you going back to your parallel universe?


probably the day you crack open your first law book and learn what I am talking about.

See you in about 5 years if you start now.





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to philosophy)
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RE: When Socialists Ruled America - 2/11/2010 10:40:35 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Rex, how do you feel about having a flat tax?

*Everyone is free to answer this question, also.


Well, if the question is open to everyone - then yes, I think there should be a flat tax on Rex. I'll need a little time to think it over, and get back to you with the rate that I feel would be most appropriate for him to pay.



How much should the tax be on Panda's and what about Real0ne?

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RE: When Socialists Ruled America - 2/11/2010 10:44:38 PM   
theReclaimer


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The -isms (socialism, communism, capitalism, etc.) rarely translate well when applied to reality, and history has plenty of examples to prove that. From a philisophical standpoint, a Randian capitalist may balk at the notion of a state-funded education system, mass transit and fire departments, but the reality is most of us have benefitted from their existence prior to understanding the mechanisms that have kept them in motion for all these years. As someone educated from state-funded schools and capitalizes on the highway roadwork daily, I consider myself a first-hand witness to the flaws and weaknesses of the current system.

At its root, taxation is no more guilty than a symbol of a swastika, but the stigma attached to it is encumbered by historical weight. Taxes isn't police officers that keep us safe or firefighters that make sure our house doesn't burn to the ground, it's some fatcat thousands of miles away taking money out of my pocket to feed his pet projects and cronies. It represents the foolishness and mismanagement of every shitty politician that's ever paid for private vacations with tax money and gotten away with it, rather than that pristine park at the center of town that everyone enjoys in the local community. It's about taxation with representation, something I believe we fought about against the British a few hundred years ago.

P.S. Who is John Galt?

< Message edited by theReclaimer -- 2/11/2010 10:45:58 PM >

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: When Socialists Ruled America - 2/11/2010 11:42:54 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Rex, how do you feel about having a flat tax?

*Everyone is free to answer this question, also.


Well, if the question is open to everyone - then yes, I think there should be a flat tax on Rex. I'll need a little time to think it over, and get back to you with the rate that I feel would be most appropriate for him to pay.



How much should the tax be on Panda's and what about Real0ne?


When I am king, pandas will pay not a penny, and Real One will be required to provide free electric power to all of Pandaland from the fusion reactor he says he has next to the washing machine on the back porch. And while we're at it, you'll have free mocha every morning!


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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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RE: When Socialists Ruled America - 2/12/2010 12:09:13 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Rex, how do you feel about having a flat tax?

*Everyone is free to answer this question, also.


Well, if the question is open to everyone - then yes, I think there should be a flat tax on Rex. I'll need a little time to think it over, and get back to you with the rate that I feel would be most appropriate for him to pay.



How much should the tax be on Panda's and what about Real0ne?


well Sovereigns collect tax, chattel property pays the tax.  So april 15th is my favorite day of the year.  I think I should collect all the tax but then that would be greedy I think.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: When Socialists Ruled America - 2/12/2010 12:12:39 AM   
philosophy


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....reckon it'd be sooner than that. Probably the day you appear on youtube with your fusion reactor.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: When Socialists Ruled America - 2/12/2010 1:30:30 AM   
Brain


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Maybe this is the answer:

Call for Robin Hood Tax on banks' transactions

Money raised could be used to avoid cuts to vital public services and for a range of good causes

11th February 2010: A Robin Hood Tax on banks’ financial transactions could raise hundreds of billions of pounds to fight poverty, protect public services and tackle climate change, according to a new campaign launched on 10th February by an unprecedented coalition of domestic charities, aid agencies, unions, faith organisations and green groups.

The campaign is calling on the leaders of the UK’s political parties to support a global tax on the banks to help repair the human damage caused by the global economic crisis, protect public services at home, fight poverty abroad and help foot the bill for climate change.

The campaign, supported by almost 50 organisations including Oxfam, the TUC, Barnardo’s, the Salvation Army, ActionAid and Save the Children, is launched with a promotional film starring Bill Nighy, and written and directed by Richard Curtis (Four Weddings and a Funeral, Comic Relief). It is backed by regional events, advertising and online promotions challenging politicians, public and banks to “Be Part of the World’s Greatest Bank Job”.

The Robin Hood Tax is backed by financiers and hundreds of economists who have signed a letter supporting the campaign.

Alastair Constance, City trader and founder of Ethical Currency, which already levies a voluntary rate of 0.005 per cent on all currency transactions, said: "Billions of pounds whizz round the global financial system every day. A tiny tax on each transaction is absolutely practical and will hardly be noticed by those paying it. But it could still raise billions to help make the world a better place."

The Robin Hood Tax would not be levied on banks’ transactions with their high street customers, but only apply to transactions between financial institutions. While different rates of tax would apply to different types of transaction, they would average around 0.05 per cent and start at just five pence for every thousand pounds traded.

But even such tiny taxes would raise hundreds of billions of dollars a year given the scale of transactions – equivalent to $10,000 a day for every one of the 1.2 billion inhabitants of the world’s 30 richest countries in the OECD. Experts have estimated an international transaction tax system could eventually raise as much as £250bn ($400bn) every year.

While an internationally agreed tax system is the best way to proceed, the UK Government and European Union should start extending transaction taxes already in existence, such as the UK’s 0.5 per cent stamp duty on shares, the campaign says.

This would both raise much needed money and encourage other countries to adopt the proposal, with modern foreign exchange markets an attractive and easy target for a unilateral tax on sterling and Euro transactions.

The market for financial transactions has exploded in the last decade, and is now worth 60 times global GDP. Before the financial crisis banking was the most profitable industry in the world, with profits five times that of the pharmaceutical industry, and three times bigger than the privatised utilities, according to consultants McKinsey & Company. At the same time the financial sector is not taxed as much as other sectors.

The campaign is calling for countries which levy the tax to keep half the proceeds domestically and for the rest to be split 50-50 between poverty reduction and tackling climate change. The UK’s share of the tax would amount to tens of billions of pounds.

Money raised by a Robin Hood Tax could be used to avoid cuts to vital public services and for a range of good causes including:
- Meeting the Government’s target to halve child poverty (£4bn)
- Ending the benefit trap that makes it too expensive for people to leave welfare and return to work (£2.7bn)
- Protecting schools and hospitals at home and abroad under threat of cuts
- Meeting the Millennium Development Goals to cut child deaths by two-thirds, maternal mortality by two-thirds and tackle malaria and HIV/AIDS, and
- Providing resources to enable a deal to be done on tackling climate change.

The UK campaign is part of an international movement with similar calls being made in the USA, Europe and across the developing world. Gordon Brown, Angela Merkel, Nicolas Sarkozy, Nancy Pelosi, Jose Manuel Barroso, Meles Zenawi (Ethiopia) have all spoken out in recent months in support of some form of transaction tax.

Financial figures who have backed transaction taxes include Lord Turner (FSA), George Soros, Warren Buffet, Avinash Persaud (chairman of Intelligence Capital), Sir Philip Hampton, (RBS chairman) and Terry Smith (chief executive of money brokers Tullett Prebon).

Polling carried out by YouGov for Oxfam shows there is already significant public support for a Robin Hood Tax, with almost twice as many people in favour of the policy as oppose it. It is also the public’s favoured option for reducing the UK’s deficit – well ahead of reducing public spending or raising income tax, VAT or corporation tax. Faced with a 12 per cent deficit, the next government will be facing a stark choice – raising other taxes such as income tax or VAT, cutting services, or taxing the banks. The campaign believes that the Robin Hood Tax is the right idea at the right time.

In a letter to the leaders of the UK’s political parties, the campaign says: “You could ignore the big problems facing the world, and accept that climate change will stay unchecked, and that the poorest people at home and abroad will have a very hard time of it over the next decade. Or you can find all the money needed by directly taxing the British public themselves.

“Or you can work to find an innovative, modern, regular way of accumulating a fund of money to deal with big issues boldly. We would ask you seriously to consider the Robin Hood Tax as that radical new option – a small tax on bankers that would make a huge difference to the UK, to the poorest countries and to our planet. Let’s turn the crisis for the banks into an opportunity for Britain and the world.”

Barbara Stocking, Oxfam Chief Executive, said: “We have a once in a generation opportunity to make global finance work in the interests of ordinary people at home and abroad. A tiny tax on banks would make a massive difference to the millions of ordinary people around the globe forced into extreme poverty by the economic crisis.”

Brendan Barber, TUC General Secretary said: “The crash was made in the finance sector – finance should now make a proper contribution to putting right the damage the crash caused and preventing huge cuts in vital public services.”

Claire Melamed, Head of Policy at ActionAid said: “We now have a chance to raise enough money to create real and lasting change. If politicians are brave enough we could turn a financial crisis into an opportunity for the world’s poor by raising billions from the banks to spend at home and abroad.”

http://www.theafronews.eu/news-call_for_robin_hood_tax_on_banks_transactions_1813.html

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: When Socialists Ruled America - 2/12/2010 3:45:47 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

Secondly you will not EVER get to see the money trail. Meaining that they just give you summaries NOT detailed full disclosure


So in other words, no proof has ever been seen, you just know it's happening...even in the absence of proof.

The truth is out there.....

Now where have I heard that before?


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(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: When Socialists Ruled America - 2/12/2010 4:08:32 AM   
eyesopened


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Well it's a damn good thing someone watched Office Space about 50 times....

We should had learned our lesson from the Great Depression.  The 1930s ushered in Big Government but the result was growth and prosperity for all.  It really isn't such a bad idea to keep your pitt bull behind a fence, it isn't such a bad idea to keep Robber Barons from operating without a conscience.  And that evil Big Government didn't seem to stop people from starting new business, research, development, advances, and breakthroughs.  Reagan's obsession with de-regulation only released the pitt bulls.  Now we have a stock market that has little to do with the investment in a company, its products and its employees, it's a shell game, 3-card monte, or another pyramid scheme.

Rex is absolutely correct.  And 5 different threads about jobs bills isn't the answer.  We need a New Deal.  The problem is.... Americans have no interest in being a unified country.  Americans are more interested in being fragmented, polarized, hyphenated and "sovereign".   We can't stand together and we will all hang separately.

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