RE: Hawaiian Health Care (Full Version)

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willbeurdaddy -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/14/2010 9:33:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Not true for medicare hospital coverage. And for those coverages where it is true, why would you decline coverage
when youve paid for it?


For the same reason people send their kids to private schools even after paying taxes for public schools.

People opt out of Medicare all the time, so they can enjoy the efficient and cost effective benefits of private insurance.

Don't they?


I suppose some do, but since it costs them not only the Medicare benefits but their Social Security benefits as well, not many. The only reason would be if a hospital that doesnt accept Medicare is the best or only source of a procedure. Someting you will see a lot more of under Blowbamacare




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/14/2010 9:34:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened


Medicare Part A hospital coverage was enacted as an entitlement so there is no premium but there is a deductible and it's not an annual deductible.  You could possibly pay several deductibles in the same calendar year.  And you can opt out of Part A as well.  There is no law that says you have to use Medicare to cover hospitalizations.



Nope you dont have to. You can just give up your Social Security benefits also.

A rule passed under the Clinton administration, and being fought for adamantly by the Obama administration. But of course he doesnt want to come between you and your doctor.




Brain -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/14/2010 12:06:10 PM)

We should raise money to send sick people to live in Hawaii. It's probably easier to do that with OLIERama as president. Nice to learn Hawaiians run a civilized state.

He's a lier because he's using bi-partisanship as an excuse/way to do nothing. Obama is a sellout.




domiguy -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/14/2010 12:18:01 PM)

Medicare is socialized health care. It places serious stipulations on what doctors will receive for every procedure they perform referred to as the "medicare approved amount." You get a hip replacement your surgeon sends medicare a bill for $16,000.00. Meidcare approves about $1,700.00. That is all the doctor receives.

If you were to knock out the fraud and limit law suits for only severe negligence this system could work for everyone.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/14/2010 12:22:59 PM)

meanwhile they had to drop their attempt to cover all uninsured children




eyesopened -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/15/2010 4:35:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Medicare is socialized health care. It places serious stipulations on what doctors will receive for every procedure they perform referred to as the "medicare approved amount." You get a hip replacement your surgeon sends medicare a bill for $16,000.00. Meidcare approves about $1,700.00. That is all the doctor receives.

If you were to knock out the fraud and limit law suits for only severe negligence this system could work for everyone.


Private insurance also has an "approved amount".  What is amazing is medical billing.  There is no such thing as a menu of services, a price list of procedures within the medical community itself.  You have private insurance that hip replacement may be billed at $10,000.  If you have no insurance the bill is different.  You have Medicaid, the bill will be yet a different amount.  Billing is done to maximize what the physician or facility can recieve both in payments but also in subsidies.  That's not considered fraud but I should think a hospital could come up with a uniform price list for each procedure code.  But then one hospital might do gall bladder surgury cheaper than another and people might shop hospitals based on costs.  We couldn't have that now could we?

The medical industry refuses to be part of free enterprise.  The industry is also encouraging doctors to opt out of Medicare because they want to receive higher pay for their services.  This at a time when baby-boomers are reaching Medicare age, lets not treat them unless they can pay for private insurance.  The medical industry could give two farts in the wind about the aged or the sick, they care about the wealthy.  Only wealthy people should get care.  The AMA would like to see maditory private insurance and have the right to refuse treatment to anyone without private insurance.  I guess that falls into the category of not causing harm?  I don't get it. 

But again, if we just let the poor and the aged die, look at how much money we will save in social programs, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.  WalMart greeter jobs can be offered to teens and young people who need the work. 

I agree with you completely.  Waste, fraud and abuse is a huge problem within a field that is supposed to be all about helping people.  Tort reform is way past due.  Although I doubt it would cause the malpractice insurance rates to be lowered.  Those bastards need their profits too.  That's why tort reform is not the total answer but it still needs to be done.




tazzygirl -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/22/2010 10:04:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Hi tazzy,

I saw that segment on Stewart's show and want to learn more about the Hawaii system.  The population of 1 state is of course a much smaller group to work with than the 48 on the mainland but let's learn what is working for them.




Thank you for the suggestion! I have a personal and professional interest in health care, so i started digging. My hopes for universal (i would prefer single payer, government run, but i wont hold my breath) health care seems to be a vanishing dream. But i still hold on to hope.


Health Care Hawaiian Style
Nearly 90 percent of Hawaiians Have Health Insurance
Nov 1, 2009 Gerard Shea


The Hawaiian State government has been requiring employers to provide health insurance to their employees for nearly 35 years. Since 1975, the state of Hawaii has required that employers cover all employees that work 20 hours a week or more. As a result, almost 90 percent of Hawaiian have health insurance.

.....


One of the most positive aspects of Hawaii's health care system is Hawaii's residents have the longest life expectancy in the country, at 80 years. According to the CIA World Factbook the United States ranks 50th overall in life expectancy at 78 years. Additionally, according to Gardiner Harris' article in The New York Times, "Hawaii has the nation's highest incidence of breast cancer but the lowest death rate from the disease."

.....


Under Hawaiian law, employers must provide standardized health plans with low co-pays, no deductibles and limited out of pocket expenses. Cliff Cisco, a senior vice president of the Hawaiian Medical Service Association, told The New York Times, "that having a standardized and popular benefit has helped keep administrative costs to just seven percent of revenue, among the lowest in the nation." Costs are also contained because Hawaiians use fewer health services than other Americans.

...


Problems with the Program
The Hawaiian health care system is not without its problems especially as the unemployment rate rises as a result of the recession. Currently, 10.7 percent of non-elderly adults do not have health insurance in Hawaii. In addition, many of Hawaii's rural regions are underserved because it is harder for the smaller hospitals that operate in these areas to make money and attract doctors.



Read more at Suite101: Health Care Hawaiian Style: Nearly 90 percent of Hawaiians Have Health Insurance http://americanaffairs.suite101.com/article.cfm/health_care_hawaiian_style#ixzz0gHzCDFQd

My self study continues and i will report here as i find things. Perhaps we can all learn a bit more!




Thadius -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/22/2010 10:12:21 AM)

Tazzy,

Am I reading this correctly? My understanding is that the health insurance is provided primarily via private entities (namely employer purchased). Would this not be an argument against the Fed providing or purchasing such benefits for the masses? One more thing, have you come across any info on how Hawaii handles preexisting conditions?

Thanks in advance,
Thadius




tazzygirl -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/22/2010 11:03:15 AM)

hi Master Thadius

thank you for the questions. Its indeed focusing my self study, and i thank you.

Here is what i have found so far. This is a study that was done in 1992...

....................


Health care system reform is an ongoing
policy issue in almost every industrialized
nation.
The United States sponsors a unique
health care infrastructure. One component
is highly regulated, and the other a
"free market." Neither component is
coordinated with the other; and they are
often in conflict.
Our choices will be to regulate more,
create freer markets, coordinate subsystems,
or do nothing. Whatever
approach is taken, cost control measures
will be paramount.
Every industrialized nation has adopted
a specific approach to the provision of
health care services to the public. Every
system has something to teach us. Each
is worth examining.
All other nations have adopted a version
of compulsory health insurance within a
regulatory framework. The most
prevalent financing method is incomeadjusted
premiums or levies.
The most common form of regulation is
standardizing professional fees and
hospital revenues. Most notably, many
countries prefer not to micro-manage the
practice of medicine nor the administration
of the system.
This series examines the health systems
of several nations and the reform actions
of three states. They include, but are not
limited to:
• Oregon • Washington
• Hawaii • Canada
• West Germany • Japan
• South Korea • Australia
February 1992

Hawaiian Health Care Reform

Primary Source
The primary reference for this brief is the article "Learning
from the Aloha State", written by Michael S. Dukakis and Cyril
Roseman, The Journal of American Health Policy, January/
February 1992. This brief abstracts significant portions of this
article. It also standardizes the analysis format and creates a
context for this analysis.



The Hawaiian Approach
The fundamental purpose is to provide a mechanism whereby
almost all Hawaiians may acquire or receive some measure of
health insurance coverage.
The state of Hawaii is attempting to create a seamless joining
of a variety of health care sub-systems. These include Medicaid,
Medicare, military, state health department, and an
employment-based private insurance market. The insurance
market is almost totally dominated by one payer, Blue Cross &
Blue Shield ... and the Kaiser Permanente HMO.
The approach attempts to fold the remaining uninsured into an
existing source of health care or into a newly created State
Health Insurance Program (SHIP) for all those who are not
covered by traditional methods. The SHIP program only
provides for primary care outpatient services. The overall goal
is to have all Hawaiians insured for some level ... but not
necessarily the same level ... of service.
• There theoretically are no Hawaiians who are employed and
uninsured. The state requires that every employee who works
over 20 hours per week be insured within 30 days of employment.
This requirement is applicable to all business. The employee
contribution is limited to 1.5% of gross income. The table on
the following page shows that calculation:
..........

Compulsory Health Insurance in Hawaii
Examples of Cost Sharing Calculations

(see the link for the graph itself, page 2)

• The poor are addressed through an expanded and
generous Medicaid.
• Other uninsured citizens are eligible for the SHIP
coverage.
Medicaid Reform
There is no Medicaid reform being proposed by
Hawaii.
Compulsory Employment Based Health Insurance
Federal ERISA guidelines prohibit states from
requiring private business to provide proscribed
benefits. Hawaii received an exemption from these
provisions in 1974. It is the only state that has ever
been granted such an exemption by the federal
government.
Hawaii legislation makes health insurance coverage
compulsory at the workplace for all employees who
work over 20 hours per week.

A Solution?
Is the Hawaiian approach a model for a national
solution? Possibly. It is questionable if the nation
could or would accept a dominant payer concept, or
would easily accept across-the-board compulsory
health insurance at the workplace.
Is the Hawaiian approach a model for a state solution?
Maybe. Some analysts cite the very unique
situation of being 3,000 miles from a competing
border state; the dominance of a single payer in the
private sector; and the all-important ERISA exemption
that other states will probably never receive.
The provision of some health care insurance for
most people is the problem, then the Hawaiian
approach is a solution. Hawaii has addressed costs
somewhat as a by-product of a dominant payer
system and through strong planning (certificate of
need) regulation.
Most states will resist the Hawaii approach because
local politics will defuse effective health planning
efforts; most states do not have a proactive pubic
health infrastructure; almost every state will resist
requiring health insurance in the workplace; and no
other state has a payer with the dominance of Blue
Cross and Blue Shield in Hawaii.

................

http://www.coph.ouhsc.edu/coph/HealthPolicyCenter/Pubs/1992/chpr9202h.pdf

Misunderstandings of the Hawaiian approach
There are many facets of the plan that may suffer
from over-simplification.
Coverage
Hawaii does not have standardized universal health
care coverage. The coverages available are of a wide
range. Those covered by the SHIP initiative will
receive essentially primary care coverage only.
Hospital care is not covered at this time. Hawaii will
continue the traditional “cost shifting” financing
mechanisms to pay for this care. This "indirect"
taxation is preferred to the traditional form at this
time.
Rationing Methods
Health care is rationed by price exactly as in other
states and by the varying insurance coverages one
may have. Those insured by comprehensive group
health plans or the Kaiser-Permanente HMO will
enjoy a wide range benefits. Those enrolled in
Medicaid are subject to the traditional Medicaid
system.
Professional Liability for Rationing Decisions
These issues are not specifically addressed or
considered in the Hawaiian approach.
Covered Business
All business, regardless of size, must comply with
the provision of insurance to its employees. There
are no exempt businesses or populations.


(same link as above)

Its a 4 page summary... and an excelent read, if you (any of you) have the time and desire to learn more.

I dont view this as universal coverage in the way Canada has it. But it is a start.

As for your question about pre-existing conditions...

Traditional Private Individual Health Insurance
This section provides information about the regulation of the health insurance market in each state for individuals seeking private non-group health insurance coverage. This includes, for each state, an explanation of how individual health insurance policies are rated, any requirements regarding the issuance of coverage on an individual basis, how individual market carriers can treat preexisting health conditions, and what credit, if any, they need to apply against preexisting condition waiting periods for an individual's prior health plan coverage.

Preexisting Condition Requirements
There is a 36-month exclusionary period limit for pre-existing conditions for traditional individual market policies in Hawaii. Pre-existing conditions may not be considered for the HIPAA-eligible population.

http://www.nahu.org/consumer/healthcare/topic.cfm?catID=22&state=HI

Im still looking to see how that is different... if it is different... when dealing with the clinics and such, Master.




truckinslave -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/22/2010 11:14:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Wow. did this thread get off track. It isnt about medicare, its about a state mandated health care. About why its worked there for 40 years, and is still good enough to get a glowing report from Rush... until after he discovered what kind of system they have. About how the GOP'ers at the convention could not explain why it works so well if government run health care is the devil incarnate. About how anyone working 20 hours a week has insurance, and why could that not work on a state level for every state.

Anyone care to tackle these?


Why haven't other states followed suit?




tazzygirl -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/22/2010 11:15:48 AM)

Try reading the full post i made... perhaps your answer is within.

Edited

actually, like Master Tim said.. mass is one... the others are oregon, washington and hawaii... so there are four. What makes hawaii unique is that all the other states are prevented by federal law, from making employer provided insurance mandatory.

Now that is unique to Hawaii, from my reading so far. Im still studying up!




Musicmystery -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/22/2010 11:18:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Wow. did this thread get off track. It isnt about medicare, its about a state mandated health care. About why its worked there for 40 years, and is still good enough to get a glowing report from Rush... until after he discovered what kind of system they have. About how the GOP'ers at the convention could not explain why it works so well if government run health care is the devil incarnate. About how anyone working 20 hours a week has insurance, and why could that not work on a state level for every state.

Anyone care to tackle these?


Why haven't other states followed suit?


Like Massachusetts?




Thadius -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/22/2010 11:29:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Wow. did this thread get off track. It isnt about medicare, its about a state mandated health care. About why its worked there for 40 years, and is still good enough to get a glowing report from Rush... until after he discovered what kind of system they have. About how the GOP'ers at the convention could not explain why it works so well if government run health care is the devil incarnate. About how anyone working 20 hours a week has insurance, and why could that not work on a state level for every state.

Anyone care to tackle these?


Why haven't other states followed suit?


Like Massachusetts?

Different approach. As tazzy touched on in one of her posts, Hawaii has an exemption to the ERISA regulations, which allows them to mandate the coverage via employer contributions.

However, it may be possible to end much of the fighting on both sides with some simple modifications to the HIPPA of '96 and changes to COBRA.




tazzygirl -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/22/2010 11:38:14 AM)

Perhaps that may be the future of health care... changing the laws and requirements for states. I would rather a state run system than a federal one, but it would have to be mandated by the federal level first. States have too much insurance money lining their pockets for them to ever do anything on their own.

As far as Mass and the lack of concern there for health care overhaul, my understanding is that anything done at this point would cost Mass more money than leaving the system as it is.




tazzygirl -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/22/2010 11:58:12 AM)

~FR

This link has answers to the pre-existing questions concerning Hawaii insurance options.

http://www.coverageforall.org/pdf/matrix/HI_Matrix.pdf




Thadius -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/22/2010 12:50:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

~FR

This link has answers to the pre-existing questions concerning Hawaii insurance options.

http://www.coverageforall.org/pdf/matrix/HI_Matrix.pdf


Thanks for the link.

It looks as though they handle pre-existing conditions via the HIPPA ('96). Which tells me that with just a few modifications HIPPA could in fact be a possible solution nationwide (as it is already on the books).




ShaharThorne -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/22/2010 1:08:07 PM)

I have the state of Texas to pay my Medicare costs for me.  I just wish they cover dental as well becuase I am having major dental problems. (fillings and one extraction left).  This way, I don't have to worry about checks bouncing (has a problem with budgets, just like the government does).  All I have to pay is my payment for Part D ($5.60 a month), any and all prescriptions ($2.50 - $6.30) and I am about to find out how much a certian kind a surgeon needs to remove a fissure.

I wish Medicare did do plastic surgery....I want a liposuction on my inner things...LOL!




Moonhead -> RE: Hawaiian Health Care (2/22/2010 1:58:12 PM)

Or bitch about tax and spend democrats...




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