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Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 6:23:13 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I rarely post clips. But this one from Jon Stewart had me going.. hmmm...

The date of the clip, Feb 11

The name of the episode... The Apparent Trap

The beginning of the clip starts with talking about a trap Obama has laid for the GOP party when discussing HCR.

I encourage all who want something to really think about, and are still going... wtf? over health care reform, to watch the entire clip. What i wanted to point out was the hawaiian health care system in that particular clip, and the GOP responses to the questions asked. Funny, of course, its Stewart. But i often find glimpses of intelligent wit, satire, and hard knocking questions.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 6:43:06 AM   
eyesopened


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Status: offline 		And ask anyone recieving Medicare to go ahead... opt out.  You can opt out yanno, you can save your Medicare premiums and pay for private insurance.  Really, just get rid of this evil Government, this Public option... 

How many Medicare recipients are opting out of their Medicare?  Thousands?  Tens of thousands?  You'd think with how awful this government run health plan is, none of the poor bastards would waste their SS check on it.

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 6:45:49 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		I had to snicker when the GOP lady could not answer the questions.

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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 6:59:33 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

And ask anyone recieving Medicare to go ahead... opt out.  You can opt out yanno, you can save your Medicare premiums and pay for private insurance.  Really, just get rid of this evil Government, this Public option... 

How many Medicare recipients are opting out of their Medicare?  Thousands?  Tens of thousands?  You'd think with how awful this government run health plan is, none of the poor bastards would waste their SS check on it.


Exactly. States can opt out too. They don't.

Are there problems? Sure. But overall it works, and it's a damn sight better than what the situation was before hand.

I heard an interview with a Republican who wants to start from scratch. His plan? To "give people the same plan we have in Congress." When pressed, that meant eliminating Medicaid/Medicare and replacing it with more expensive private health insurance plans.

Health care elimination, not reform.

I wish I believed in God, because then I could be sure these bastards will suffer.





< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/12/2010 7:00:04 AM >

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 7:01:04 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Just to toss this in before its even a thought of an argument. Hawaii's unemployment rate in December... 6.9%

http://hawaii.gov/labor/news/2010/jan/MR2010_02_Dec_UI_DLIR_Release.pdf


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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 8:57:29 AM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

And ask anyone recieving Medicare to go ahead... opt out.  You can opt out yanno, you can save your Medicare premiums and pay for private insurance.  Really, just get rid of this evil Government, this Public option... 

How many Medicare recipients are opting out of their Medicare?  Thousands?  Tens of thousands?  You'd think with how awful this government run health plan is, none of the poor bastards would waste their SS check on it.


I know people right now who have UM's who are disabled or have medical conditions.  They rail on about what the government shouldn't do or be involved in.  Yet they don't opt of of receiving medical services from the government nor did that belief stop them for signing up for SSI.

One of them will go on until they are red faced and so angry about how the government has no business in health care. Yet they have a UM who was born with a serious health defect with extensive medical bills that were covered in large part by that same government.

Let's not even ask about the response I got for suggesting that stance might be a tad hypocritical.

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 10:08:32 AM   
AnimusRex


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Status: offline 		Speaking of opting out, how come nobody is proposing we "allow" our heroic members of the Armed Services to "enjoy" the wonderous benefits of the free market in health care? Instead we doggedly insist they be forced to endure the horrors of single payer government run health care.

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 10:23:40 AM   
Arpig


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Status: offline 		You coldhearted unpatriotic so-and-sos...how could you mistreat them that way!

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 10:44:25 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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Status: offline 		Since when can an individual opt out of medicare and not pay the Medicare tax?

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 10:51:29 AM   
CalifChick


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Since when can an individual opt out of medicare and not pay the Medicare tax?


Decling medicare coverage and not paying the medicare tax on income are two different issues.  You can decline coverage, but you cannot decline paying the tax.

Cali

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 11:02:37 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Since when can an individual opt out of medicare and not pay the Medicare tax?


Decling medicare coverage and not paying the medicare tax on income are two different issues.  You can decline coverage, but you cannot decline paying the tax.

Cali


Not true for medicare hospital coverage. And for those coverages where it is true, why would you decline coverage
when youve paid for it?

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 11:26:59 AM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Not true for medicare hospital coverage. And for those coverages where it is true, why would you decline coverage
when youve paid for it?


For the same reason people send their kids to private schools even after paying taxes for public schools.

People opt out of Medicare all the time, so they can enjoy the efficient and cost effective benefits of private insurance.

Don't they?

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 11:53:11 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Speaking of opting out, how come nobody is proposing we "allow" our heroic members of the Armed Services to "enjoy" the wonderous benefits of the free market in health care? Instead we doggedly insist they be forced to endure the horrors of single payer government run health care.



Actually they do force some to opt out of that wonderful coverage. It started with the introduction of yearly means tests. I have a friend that is a 30 year retiree, and he was denied service last year because his pension for serving put him over the top of the means limit.

Then let's not forget how the GI bill became a use it within a certain period or lose it and the money that the vet contributed program.

Ah, good times.

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 12:37:46 PM   
eyesopened


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From: Tampa, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Since when can an individual opt out of medicare and not pay the Medicare tax?


Decling medicare coverage and not paying the medicare tax on income are two different issues.  You can decline coverage, but you cannot decline paying the tax.

Cali


Not true for medicare hospital coverage. And for those coverages where it is true, why would you decline coverage
when youve paid for it?


Medicare only began in 1966.  My dad is 82 year old and began working when he got out of the military at age 21.  The first 17 years he worked and paid no FICA (Medicare tax) at all and he gets benefits as do seniors older than my parents.  Federal employees didn't pay Medicare tax until 1983 and boy did they raise a stink about it!  There are a lot of folks over the age of 80 who require a lot of healthcare and didn't pay one dime to the system.

Medicare Part A hospital coverage was enacted as an entitlement so there is no premium but there is a deductible and it's not an annual deductible.  You could possibly pay several deductibles in the same calendar year.  And you can opt out of Part A as well.  There is no law that says you have to use Medicare to cover hospitalizations.

But of course if you think private insurance is so superior why would anyone accept inferior healthcare and risk their lives to death panels just because they paid tax? 

< Message edited by eyesopened -- 2/12/2010 12:45:41 PM >

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 4:38:40 PM   
europeantrainer


Posts: 30
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Status: offline 		so many stupid statements,I have headache,even Im 27 years out of the terrible socialistic health care system in europe,

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/12/2010 5:00:07 PM   
CalifChick


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Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Medicare Part A hospital coverage was enacted as an entitlement so there is no premium but there is a deductible and it's not an annual deductible. 



There IS a premium for Part A (which covers facility costs such as hospital stays).  According to the CMS (Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services, i.e., the gubament):  Cost: Most people don’t have to pay a monthly payment, called a premium, for Part A. This is because they or a spouse paid Medicare taxes while working. If a beneficiary doesn't get premium-free Part A, they may be able to buy it if they (or their spouse) aren’t entitled to Social Security, because they didn’t work or didn’t pay enough Medicare taxes while working, are age 65 or older, or are disabled but no longer get free Part A because they returned to work. If they have limited income and resources, their state may help them pay for Part A


quote:

And you can opt out of Part A as well.  There is no law that says you have to use Medicare to cover hospitalizations.


Actually, there is a law, in a convoluted sort of way.  If you receive Social Security payments, then SS automatically enrolls you in Part A.  Once you have Medicare, healthcare providers cannot treat you if they do not accept Medicare (with limited exceptions).  If you attempt to purchase private insurance on your own, without coordinating it with Medicare and are successful in that purchase, then the private insurance still will not pay out the benefits, because Medicare is supposed to pay out first (again, with limited exceptions).  And they will know, because they will check the Medicare system for your enrollment based on your age.

The only way out of it is to go completely as a cash patient and stay off the government's radar.

Cali




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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/13/2010 11:22:49 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Wow. did this thread get off track. It isnt about medicare, its about a state mandated health care. About why its worked there for 40 years, and is still good enough to get a glowing report from Rush... until after he discovered what kind of system they have. About how the GOP'ers at the convention could not explain why it works so well if government run health care is the devil incarnate. About how anyone working 20 hours a week has insurance, and why could that not work on a state level for every state.

Anyone care to tackle these?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/13/2010 4:31:20 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Hi tazzy,

I saw that segment on Stewart's show and want to learn more about the Hawaii system.  The population of 1 state is of course a much smaller group to work with than the 48 on the mainland but let's learn what is working for them.


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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/14/2010 4:44:53 AM   
eyesopened


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Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Wow. did this thread get off track. It isnt about medicare, its about a state mandated health care. About why its worked there for 40 years, and is still good enough to get a glowing report from Rush... until after he discovered what kind of system they have. About how the GOP'ers at the convention could not explain why it works so well if government run health care is the devil incarnate. About how anyone working 20 hours a week has insurance, and why could that not work on a state level for every state.

Anyone care to tackle these?


The only problem I can see is employers limiting workers to work 19 hours per week. 

It boils down to getting everybody on board.  Obviously, in Hawaii, the people felt that having health insurance was important.  Had they not had it for 40 years and were looking to enact it today I wonder what the outcome would be.

40 years ago was a world and a lifetime ago.  People were better, I think.  And Hawaii is unique in that as a group of islands it's not so easy to just pull up stakes and move to another state with better benefits.

You saw the reactions of the GOP.... they were simply so enthrawled with their own rhetoric that they would not listen.  You could put truth in their face and rub their nose it in and they would refuse to recognise it.  I have never heard any Republican tell me what their long term vision is or how it will look 40 years from now.  It would appear to me that all that is important to the GOP is to defeat Democrats and that their vision doesn't extend beyond that.

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RE: Hawaiian Health Care - 2/14/2010 8:13:39 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

You saw the reactions of the GOP.... they were simply so enthrawled with their own rhetoric that they would not listen.  You could put truth in their face and rub their nose it in and they would refuse to recognise it.  I have never heard any Republican tell me what their long term vision is or how it will look 40 years from now.  It would appear to me that all that is important to the GOP is to defeat Democrats and that their vision doesn't extend beyond that.


And to destroy government as much as possible, except where they can use it to fund the industrial-military complex.

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