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Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/13/2010 8:57:21 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		This is good news for Detroit so they can turn the economy around in Michigan

Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - Yahoo! Finance

According to a report by auto research website Edmunds.com, Ford Motor Co. (NYSE: F - News) has become the second-biggest automaker in the U.S. behind General Motors. With this, Ford has overtaken Toyota Motor Corp. (NYSE: TM - News) in the wake of Toyota's damaging parade of recalls.

According to the website, Toyota is expected to lose more than 1 percentage point of the U.S. market share to hit 16.45% in 2010 due to its global recall of 8.5 million vehicles related to their problem accelerator gas pedals and braking systems. Meanwhile, Ford is expected to achieve 16.57% of the market in the year following General Motors with 18.12% of the market.

Toyota’s recent series of recalls have been highly focused and criticized, eroding the image of the automaker. Its latest recall included highly popular vehicles such as the 2010 Prius hybrid. News has recently leaked that the U.S. regulators are also reviewing dozens of complaints about potential steering problems in new Toyota Corolla vehicles.

Toyota loyalists are now having second thoughts prior to purchasing their vehicles. For years, Toyota has been praised for maintaining both superior quality and high resale value.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Ford-Passing-Toyota-in-US-zacks-86016992.html?x=0
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RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/13/2010 9:43:37 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		The market is saturated. There are more licensed vehicles than licensed drivers. And cheap Chinese cars are on the way.

Detroit isn't going to hear anything like it wants to hear ever.

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/13/2010 9:44:56 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		It IS good news, but I suspect that this is a speed bump for Toyota, and that they will right themselves.  Also, "market share" is relevant only when it is noted whether the market is growing or shrinking.


_____________________________

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RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/13/2010 9:48:20 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry if I again take too globalistic an approach to this than expected.

Man has civilisation, bulds machines. Eventually becomes dependent upon machines. Machines break and cannot be fixed. Die.

Yup. First of all no matter what anyone says, an accelerator is like the trigger of a gun. You do not use electronics. Brakes are necessary, therefore you do not use electronics. Similarly with steering. This is your life, and these devices rely on semiconductor technology. Take steering, some idiot was talking about electric power steering, how great it would be because you could steer if the engine failed. BUT, on the other side of the coin, if one transistor in an array shorts out, it will force the wheel to steer to one side, and some may not be strong enough to fight it, nor even become aware fast enough in say, dense traffic. I would never buy such a car.

Electronic throttles are just as stupid. In a properly designed vehicle the gas pedal goes to a cable that operates the throttle valve. It is resisted by a spring. If the spring does not break, it lasts forever. But some idiots think the way to warm up a car is to rev it, which is untrue. And then there is the "advent" of traction control systems because people don't know how to drive. The don't know that if they have it floored and the speedometer says 90 MPH and they are not moving, they don't need to press the gas harder. So now their lame asses need control on the fucking gas pedal of their car ? Bullshit. If you can stop the actuation of the throttle with electronics, you therefore must actuate it with electronics. And like any other time, any transistor can and does short out anytime, resulting in unwanted output, such as full throttle acceleration through a busload of schoolkids.

Brakes, need I say more ? It took near a hundred years to get close to the perfect system, hydraulic not mechanical. Well it is but uses fluid. Highly refined and perfected this marvelous braking system has saved countless lives through the years. Since disc brakes, heavywall steel tubing and double flaring of the fittings, it has become penultimate in reliability. So let's change it ! Let's make these three thousand dollar modules people have to replace, and fuck the whole thing up with complexity so nobody can fix it. Be dammed if people die, we need the money. We have shareholders to whom to answer.

Just give me a 1969 Chevy pickup truck. I would buy one new if I could. I can buy a new car really, but I do not want what they have. I don't want all the bullshit, I want what works.

The point of my whole post is this, all of this shit gets so new and improved that it isn't worth shit anymore. So it happened to Toyota, big deal. But I wouldn't even drive a car with an electronic accelerator, let alone buy one.

What came around is going around.

T

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/13/2010 11:10:22 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		The case can be made that Toyota "problems" are deliberately exaggerated by US corporate media. Toyota makes better cars than Ford.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/13/2010 11:21:11 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		There ya go. We can get some data now !

How many bought Fords and got recall noitces ?
How many of those were on the news all daty long ?
How many bought Toyotas and got recall notices ?
How many of those were on the news all day long ?

There.

T

(in reply to Fellow)
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RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/14/2010 3:17:41 AM   
mefisto69


Posts: 370
Joined: 1/19/2007
Status: offline 		Ford is in the middle of a recall now but - they don't call it that - something like, a customer satisfaction review - or check. Ford loaded up all it's junky cars with electronics too- just wait till that crap starts blowing out and the kids crash through walls because they're fucking with their GPS - phone texting - playing games etc.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/14/2010 4:54:07 AM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

The case can be made that Toyota "problems" are deliberately exaggerated by US corporate media. Toyota makes better cars than Ford.


Did this cause the recall of the cars in Europe as well?

(in reply to Fellow)
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RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/14/2010 5:23:34 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Brakes are necessary, therefore you do not use electronics. Similarly with steering. This is your life, and these devices rely on semiconductor technology. Take steering, some idiot was talking about electric power steering, how great it would be because you could steer if the engine failed. BUT, on the other side of the coin, if one transistor in an array shorts out, it will force the wheel to steer to one side, and some may not be strong enough to fight it, nor even become aware fast enough in say, dense traffic. I would never buy such a car.


OK, first of all, power steering is NOT electronic but mechanical (usually hydraulic, I believe). Second of all, transistors don't "short out".

Third, both gas pedal problems were mechanical in nature (a floor mat that didn't fit, and too much friction).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Electronic throttles are just as stupid. In a properly designed vehicle the gas pedal goes to a cable that operates the throttle valve. It is resisted by a spring. If the spring does not break, it lasts forever.


Ummm... Springs do break. Cables break. And both happens far more often than "transistors shorting out" (which doesn't happen at all in the first place). Electronic control has been well established for decades now in the aircraft industry - first in military aircraft, and then about 20 years ago Airbus started using electronic controls - they had to. The mechanical systems were too difficult and too hard to maintain (and too prone to cable breaks and the like) in today's huge aircraft. Initially, there were some serious problems with it; a number of Airbuses had accidents that probably were caused by the electronic controls. But those got worked out a long time ago. Boeing took a wiser path and waited a lot longer.

What we are seeing in the car industry is the same thing. Mechanical systems fail. Electronic systems are highly reliable. The software that controls the electronics is the real problem; there are probably some marginal conditions that the engineers hadn't thought of but that appear once in a while when you have tens of millions of cars on the road. Fortunately, software is easy to update.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
But I wouldn't even drive a car with an electronic accelerator, let alone buy one.


Unless you bought a very old car, odds are you wouldn't even know that it has an electronic accelerator. And old cars have their own dangers.

Give me a 2010 Prius over a 1969 Chevy Truck any day - that 40-year-old-car could break down any minute in the middle of the freeway, unless you spend an inordinate amount of time or money on maintenance.


(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/14/2010 6:31:12 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

The case can be made that Toyota "problems" are deliberately exaggerated by US corporate media. Toyota makes better cars than Ford.


If the case can be made, please feel free to make it.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Fellow)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/14/2010 7:21:18 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		The federal government might indeed be making Toyota look worse than it is. GM (government motors) sales will improve if Toyota looks bad..

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/14/2010 7:32:41 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The federal government might indeed be making Toyota look worse than it is. GM (government motors) sales will improve if Toyota looks bad..


And RealOne might be right about some conspiracy someday. The probability of either happening isn't worth the time spent considering it.

(in reply to servantforuse)
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RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/14/2010 7:40:08 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Anybody remember the Ford Pinto memo?

If Ford can come back from deciding to go ahead and kill people, just pay the death benefits, Toyota can come back from this.

No longer perfect. But still damn good.


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/14/2010 7:45:18 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

Did this cause the recall of the cars in Europe as well?



Eventually, yes. At first they insisted it didnt affect cars in Europe but since then apparently it did.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Ford Passing Toyota in U.S. Market - 2/14/2010 8:12:48 AM   
cuckoldmepls


Posts: 855
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline 		People this is no coincidence that they are now going after toyota for what can only be described as nitpicking flaws. Out of a million vehicles something like 35 vehicles had a problem with the accelerator pedal, and most of those were because the floor mat was pushed up underneath it. Geeze, this happens in practically every car if you aren't careful with the floor mat.

I belive what you are seeing is a conspired effort to tip the scales back in favor of the big 3 so they can start creating American jobs again. It's unfortunate they don't have the balls to withdraw from the WTO, and return back to fair trade agreements.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 15
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