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Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the Problem? - 2/14/2010 6:27:29 PM   
Brain


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As I recall there was a thread recently on this site about this topic. Since this journalist has taken the time to reply I thought some people may be interested in his response. I didn’t agree with the initial thread as I believe the opposite is true as evidenced by vice president Cheney’s comments again today.

Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the Problem?

A conservative professor of politics at the University of Virginia recently wrote a column in the Washington Post asking the question: Why are liberals so condescending?

Rather than posting a comment on the Post's Web site to point out how the professor has it so wrong, let's take his argument apart here.

First of all, he starts out with an obvious bit of false spin, just like the conservative commentators on TV he seems to try to defend.
"Even with Democratic fortunes on the wane, leading liberals insist that they have almost nothing to learn from conservatives."

On the wane? President Barack Obama's personal popularity is the same as Ronald Reagan's after one year in office, and the Democrats still have a majority in both houses of Congress. Just because TV pundits are saying the Democrats may lose a few seats in the mid-term election in 2010 doesn't mean their fortunes are totally "on the wane."

In fact, it has been pointed out over and over again that the Republican Party is all but dead, except among white males mostly in the South. Just because one Republican won a Congressional race in Massachusetts doesn't mean the Republicans are about to take back the country tomorrow. The election is still 10 months away. Anything can happen and probably will.

"Many Democrats describe their troubles simply as a PR challenge, a combination of conservative misinformation - as when Obama charges that critics of health-care reform are peddling fake fears of a 'Bolshevik plot,'" according to the professor.

Well, isn't that true? Conservatives are good at oversimplifying things into wedge-issue sound bites. The administration of George W. Bush proved the anti-government party couldn't govern.

Bashing government is a campaign ploy, not an alternative plan to get rid of the deficit.

While seeming to dismantle liberal thinking, the professor simply bolsters it.

He writes, "Prominent studies and journalistic accounts of right-wing politics ... stressed paranoia, intolerance and insecurity, rendering conservative thought more a psychiatric disorder than a rival.... Richard Hofstadter referred to 'the Manichaean style of thought, the apocalyptic tendencies, the love of mystification, the intolerance of compromise that are observable in the right-wing mind.'"

This appears to be way more true today than it was in the 1950's and 1960's. I wonder if the professor bothered to catch any of the coverage of the Tea Party convention in Nashville?

The professor talks of four major narratives about who conservatives are and how they think and function, and rather than offering a real counter to that, the professor proves the case.

The first narrative is the "vast right-wing conspiracy," a vision that "maintains that conservatives win elections and policy debates not because they triumph in the open battle of ideas but because they deploy brilliant and sinister campaign tactics. A dense network of professional political strategists such as Karl Rove, think tanks such as the Heritage Foundation and industry groups allegedly manipulate information and mislead the public."

All true. Where's the evidence it's not true? The professor doesn't offer any. He just calls liberals "condescending." For what? Being right?

He goes on to prove the case.
"This liberal vision emphasizes the dissemination of ideologically driven views from sympathetic media such as the Fox News Channel. For example, Chris Mooney's book, "The Republican War on Science," argues that policy debates in the scientific arena are distorted by conservatives who disregard evidence and reflect the biases of industry-backed Republican politicians or of evangelicals aimlessly shielding the world from modernity. In this interpretation, conservative arguments are invariably false and deployed only cynically."

Yes, and your point? We know that the Bush administration spent eight excruciating years using industry lobbyists to run just about every government agency. That is an indisputable fact. Every news organization in the country, including the conservative Wall Street Journal, documented the war on science at the EPA, the Interior Department and on and on.

Is it an equal political argument to say it is a "liberal conspiracy of condescension" and use innuendo to imply that there was no war on science?

Perhaps the professor should visit one of the hard science departments at the University of Virginia and ask some of them what they think. Or are all scientists just liberals who scapegoat Christian conservatives for standing in the way of progress on solving real problems, like the energy crisis and climate change due to human-induced global warming?

The professor says, "Some observers have decried an anti-intellectual strain in contemporary conservatism, detected in George W. Bush's aw-shucks style, Sarah Palin's college-hopping and the occasional conservative campaigns against egghead intellectuals."

Duh. What is untrue about that? They all learned it from George Wallace in Alabama in the late 1960's and 1970's, which is what allowed Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush to be elected president in the first place. There is a host of scholarship on the "Dixie Strategy." I mean, just Google it.

There is not a serious political scholar anywhere who would really deny this at the end of the day. Politics is a game of words. Half the population has no clue about the facts. Whoever wins the spin war wins the election. That is politics American-style.

Obama has it right. The Democrats should keep hitting the Republicans where they live, in the land of Oz, and they will stay on top.

What the professor could have said, if he wanted us to take his case seriously, is that the Democrats have to prove they can govern by getting some concrete things done. Otherwise, they will lose enough of the independent vote to cost them elections.

Of course, it is hard to get things done when "the party of no" filibusters every good idea just to stop progress so they can maybe win an election.

Obama has already said he will listen to their ideas. He has bent over backwards to try to work with the GOP, even to the consternation of many liberal Democrats who have tried to tell the president they won't listen, they have no ideas and they won't help govern because it is not in their political interest to solve problems.

It is in their interest to flash Tina Fey glasses and ignorant, extremist sound bites at the masses, hoping to fool enough of the people some of the time. That was Sarah Palin's job in Nashville. She has no chance of getting elected to anything. She is a spoiler who keeps the anti-Democrat crusade going another day on TV.

Alabama's very own Ten Commandments Judge called Obama immoral. Does the professor really think that is true and that it will win elections? Where is the alternative governing strategy in that?

Answer: There's not one. It is nothing but spin. Is it condescension to point that out? I think not ...

This work by Truthout is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial 3.0 United States License.

http://www.truthout.org/is-liberal-intellectual-condescension-really-problem56879

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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/14/2010 6:34:11 PM   
AnimusRex


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How come nobody ever bitches about how condescending Sarah Palin is?

Actin' all, "I know how to spell 'tax cuts'" and rubs our nose in it by writin' it on her hand...

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/14/2010 6:35:17 PM   
StrangerThan


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No. Condescension is. Same as practiced by the other side about oh, 4 years ago.

Take the intellectual part out. The current condescension is little more than a mirror image of previous.

Nothing intellectual about being a copy-cat.

Then again, I'm seeing a thread on killing the filibuster floating around as if it's a brand-spanking new concept. I can't wait until we get to the impeachment of Supreme Court justices. It's like a big circle, one which both sides ride round and round when they're in power while intellect is left somewhere in the dust.

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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 1:12:08 AM   
Brain


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I think because Palin is a dingbat. Anne Coulter is ridiculous.

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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 3:36:32 AM   
Termyn8or


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Is it condescending not to use big words when speaking to children ?

Just askin'.

T

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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 4:01:15 AM   
mefisto69


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a lot of people know that it's a gross waste of time to try to explain concepts to morons and won't Even waste the energy to get in an argument with one.

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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 4:10:06 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I think because Palin is a dingbat. Anne Coulter is ridiculous.


Well, namecalling without anything to back it up DOES strike me as condescending....

Back on track, what attitude SHOULD liberals take?  Eight years of a conservative administration have produced the most horrible hash of the country since the Great Depression.  I'm still waiting for the following from conservatives:

"Tax cuts without spending cuts don't work and drive up the deficit."
"Deficits DO matter"
"It is wrong to fake evidence to invade a country"
"Torture is ethically wrong (and evidence obtained from it is unreliable and likely inadmissible in court)"
"There really was no excuse to promise the American people they were safe from terrorism when disaster response from Katrina was nonexistent"
"Trying to override the judicial system in the Terri Schiavo case was an unacceptable attack on the Constitution's system of checks and balances"

I think that Pawlenty is starting to see the light as shown in his Esquire interview:  Saying "The party got into a whole bunch of corruption and personal scandals that weren't compatible with the principles it claimed to stand for."

"We just lost our way. You can't say that your hallmark issues are that we're going to control spending, keep taxes low, and make government accountable, and then go to Washington and do the opposite.... Let's face it, when Republicans had total control over it, they didn't do what they said they were gonna do." stops WAY short of a full denunciation of the Bush administration, but it's at least a start.





_____________________________

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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 6:01:30 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

Eight years of a conservative administration...


Steven - a few points: First, Bush's wasn't a fiscally conservative administration (obviously). Second, Bush had a Liberal congress for a time that  in no way tried to reign in spending. Third, Bush tried to clamp down on the Fannie / Freddie debacle before it could come to fruition but was blocked in his efforts by Barney Frank and his bunch.

And fourth - Barack Obama ran as a fiscal conservative in order to get elected, which helped him win a lot of the conservative vote - but he's failed to enact the conservative policies as promised.

So don't blame our current financial problems on conservatives please!

Thank you.

Thomas





< Message edited by Sanity -- 2/15/2010 6:09:19 AM >


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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 6:07:14 AM   
thornhappy


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Regarding Palin's "college hopping" - I'd give her a pass on that.  I did the same thing, having attended 5 different community colleges to date. 

I completed no credits at 2 of them (I found taking a class M-TH 6pm-10pm was impractical while working full time, and the other was a community concert band).  The course work at two of the colleges fed into a BS, the third was prep work for an MS.

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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 7:05:10 AM   
thishereboi


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Well to be honest, he reminds me of you. The only difference is, instead of bleating "all conservatives are bad", he is bleating "all democrats are bad"

Same tune, different words.


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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 9:20:29 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Steven - a few points: First, Bush's wasn't a fiscally conservative administration (obviously).

Thomas



Thomas, this made me think, and it resulted in something frightening...

Bush's rhetoric promised that he was  a fiscal conservative.  Obama's rhetoric promised that he would be the anti-Bush.  So far, I have seen little difference in the policies of the two but vast differences in their largely unkept promises.

Under Bush, the Dems railed against his failing policies while the GOP pretended they worked.  Under Obama, the GOP is railing against his expensive and ineffective policies while the Dems are feeling betrayed because they're not getting the change they promised.  Similar criticisms, different critics.

Frightening idea - what if this is IT?  What if we're doomed to suffer the same policies for perpetuity (or bankruptcy) and the sole difference is what words they use to cover up the same policies?


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 11:14:39 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Well to be honest, he reminds me of you. The only difference is, instead of bleating "all conservatives are bad", he is bleating "all democrats are bad"

Same tune, different words.



Ah.  And there, boi, I think you've hit on something.  I enjoy the kinds of posts that state that policies are bad, with reasoning.  But stating that people are bad really accomplishes nothing.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 2:20:13 PM   
Brain


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Except I'm right as I'm objective.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Well to be honest, he reminds me of you. The only difference is, instead of bleating "all conservatives are bad", he is bleating "all democrats are bad"

Same tune, different words.



(in reply to thishereboi)
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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 2:23:37 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Except I'm right as I'm objective.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Well to be honest, he reminds me of you. The only difference is, instead of bleating "all conservatives are bad", he is bleating "all democrats are bad"

Same tune, different words.




Very interesting choice of words. I am sure somebody will be along to inform you of the meaning of the word objective.

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 2:24:48 PM   
Brain


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I was trying to say she gets a pass because she's not at all well-educated. And that's why she's not qualified to run for these high positions of responsibility.

As far as evidence is concerned telling people she can see Russia from her house is plenty enough evidence for me that she doesn't know anything about foreign policy.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I think because Palin is a dingbat. Anne Coulter is ridiculous.


Well, namecalling without anything to back it up DOES strike me as condescending....

Back on track, what attitude SHOULD liberals take?  Eight years of a conservative administration have produced the most horrible hash of the country since the Great Depression.  I'm still waiting for the following from conservatives:

"Tax cuts without spending cuts don't work and drive up the deficit."
"Deficits DO matter"
"It is wrong to fake evidence to invade a country"
"Torture is ethically wrong (and evidence obtained from it is unreliable and likely inadmissible in court)"
"There really was no excuse to promise the American people they were safe from terrorism when disaster response from Katrina was nonexistent"
"Trying to override the judicial system in the Terri Schiavo case was an unacceptable attack on the Constitution's system of checks and balances"

I think that Pawlenty is starting to see the light as shown in his Esquire interview:  Saying "The party got into a whole bunch of corruption and personal scandals that weren't compatible with the principles it claimed to stand for."

"We just lost our way. You can't say that your hallmark issues are that we're going to control spending, keep taxes low, and make government accountable, and then go to Washington and do the opposite.... Let's face it, when Republicans had total control over it, they didn't do what they said they were gonna do." stops WAY short of a full denunciation of the Bush administration, but it's at least a start.






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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 2:33:39 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

First, Bush's wasn't a fiscally conservative administration (obviously). Second, Bush had a Liberal congress for a time that  in no way tried to reign in spending.


Wait a second.

Republicans spent eight years rubber stamping everything Bush, and six of it in the majority.

What point is a discussion that starts with more spin. Going by the past decade, Republicans are no fiscal conservatives either.

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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 2:39:30 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I was trying to say she gets a pass because she's not at all well-educated. And that's why she's not qualified to run for these high positions of responsibility.

As far as evidence is concerned telling people she can see Russia from her house is plenty enough evidence for me that she doesn't know anything about foreign policy.



Palin has a degree,  How much education do you want?  Bush II had an MBA, but aside from him, I can't think of any other President offhand that had more than a Bachelor's.

I agree that she's not smart, but that in itself means nothing if she's able to surround herself with intelligent people and knows how to use them.  And the quote about seeing Russia from her house was made by Tina Fey.

That said, I don't see her running for office again so it's moot.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/15/2010 2:53:20 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

I can't think of any other President offhand that had more than a Bachelor's.


I'm not going to look it up, but Woodrow Wilson? He was a college president.

What about presidents who were lawyers?

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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/16/2010 9:59:37 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Except I'm right as I'm objective.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Well to be honest, he reminds me of you. The only difference is, instead of bleating "all conservatives are bad", he is bleating "all democrats are bad"

Same tune, different words.





I am sure he would claim the same thing.


_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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RE: Is Liberal, Intellectual Condescension Really the P... - 2/16/2010 10:02:53 AM   
CelticNightmare


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No,lack of connection to reality is the problem.

Something the entire political process is prey to.

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