Developing Confidence (Full Version)

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shallowdeep -> Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 12:51:26 AM)

Self-assurance and dominance seem to be fairly complementary, but I have to imagine a desire to exert control over someone or to 'torture' them does not immediately equate to unassailable confidence in your ability to do so.

Pressure to live up to some ideal of the perfect dominant. Fear of messing up. Concerns about how a partner will respond and how they will view you. Worries about safety. Difficulties reconciling urges with societal norms. Your own misgivings over how it could affect your perception of self... The potential openings for doubt seem myriad.

My actual questions:
  • To what extent, if any, is confidence integral to your style of dominance?
  • Have you encountered any struggles with self-doubt as you have explored? Do you recall anything standing out as particularly troublesome?
  • If you did have issues with confidence, were they resolved with time? Could you share what helped in that process? Mentoring? Reading? Talking with others? Just jumping in and getting your feet wet? An epiphany? Something else?
  • Have you noticed anything in particular about a partner's actions, attitudes, or reactions that creates a positive experience for you and helps build your confidence in your dominance? Conversely, has there ever been an interaction that rattled your confidence?
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 4:23:23 AM)

quote:

To what extent, if any, is confidence integral to your style of dominance?

It is 100% integral. That said, I don't always expect to have 100% confidence. In other words, without confidence, one cannot pull off dominance properly. Some try to dominate from a place of insecurity and it comes across abraissave and domineering for the most part.With confidence, one can dominate more effectively.

quote:

Have you encountered any struggles with self-doubt as you have explored? Do you recall anything standing out as particularly troublesome?

Oh yes of course. I started a thread here about a week ago entitled showArrow("2/12/2010 6:05:32 AM",3054611,6,false) A Domme in sub's clothing  in which I and others detail some of the struggles we had with embracing the Dominant within us. One of my main struggles was reconciling the image of a Lady and feminity, the caring and loving side of me with the Domme and the Sadist within.

quote:

If you did have issues with confidence, were they resolved with time? Could you share what helped in that process? Mentoring? Reading? Talking with others? Just jumping in and getting your feet wet? An epiphany? Something else?

I would say mentoring helped a lot. I had a mentor who was instrumental. Reading helped as well as did talking with others via this message board. Then of course, just doing it and realising that I could reconcile all this was key.

quote:

Have you noticed anything in particular about a partner's actions, attitudes, or reactions that creates a positive experience for you and helps build your confidence in your dominance?

One of my first subs actually was instrumental in that he saw the Lady, feminine, loving side in me juxtaposed with the Domme and he really made a point of telling me regularly how much this was why he chose me. That was a lot of positive reinforcement that I could move forward with this and helped my confidence. Feedback is key.

quote:

Conversely, has there ever been an interaction that rattled your confidence?

Momentarily. Because I had such a good base and I'm very clear on what I'm looking for, I feel I avoided a lot of this. I have discovered however that passive agressive individuals don't make the best submissive partners for me. Not in by a long shot!

Hope this helps!

- LA




PeonForHer -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 4:43:21 AM)

One of my main struggles was reconciling the image of a Lady and feminity, the caring and loving side of me with the Domme and the Sadist within.

I've often wondered about how difficult that must be for a woman.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 5:04:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

One of my main struggles was reconciling the image of a Lady and feminity, the caring and loving side of me with the Domme and the Sadist within.

I've often wondered about how difficult that must be for a woman.

Until I figured it out, it was a real puzzle and the cause of much inner chaos. Now that I figured it out, it is just me being my natural self. In fact, people have remarked outside the realm of kink that I do seem more grounded and in tune with who I am.

- LA



PeonForHer -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 5:22:40 AM)

In a sense, I never did reconcile the sub-side in me.  I have different bits in me, they bounce off each other, and I just became happy with it.  A cheerful multiple-personality, that's me.  Pfft.  Men are not 'supposed' to be soft and yielding - they're supposed to be toughies; women are 'not supposed' to want to be hard and aggressive, they're supposed to be fluffy and nurturing.  I don't know which sex finds it the more difficult to resolve. 



MsStarlett -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 5:33:26 AM)

Confidence is the key ingredient in a Dominate personality.  Start small and work your way up.  Start with being Confident that you look good and are sexy as hell no matter what size or shape you are.  You are a woman, therefore exude confidence that you are sexy and desirable.

Other things are skills.  Some skills can be learned by practicing alone.  Don't know how to use a flogger?  Buy one and beat the stuffing out of your pillow in private.  Then you'll feel more confident when you know how to hold and wield one.  Read up on things!  You need to know things like where the large muscle groups are that can withstand heavy damage.

Don't try new stuff on a new boy.  If you don't know how to do something - Admit it.   Try it out with someone who DOES know what he/she is doing and who can guide you.  Or explain to your bottom that you have never done this and go slow.  Helping you learn a new skill is not "Topping from the Bottom" - it's learning together or sharing vital information. 

Go to local groups or conventions and attend demonstrations for techniques that you are curious about.  Then - ADMIT to your bottom that you've been studying up on something and would like to try something new.  You will both gain confidence as you progress together.



LadyPact -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 5:35:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

One of my main struggles was reconciling the image of a Lady and feminity, the caring and loving side of me with the Domme and the Sadist within.

I've often wondered about how difficult that must be for a woman.

I won't speak for anyone else, but for Me, it took a bit.  It's something of a process.  Not different between the genders, really.  It takes a while to go beyond accepting your desires, rather than what's been taught.  The whole, 'nice people don't hit or hurt others' kind of thing.  However, once you get past that hurdle, there is some fun stuff waiting on the other side.



AAkasha -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 10:51:53 AM)


Great questions.
I think at some point the lightbulb went off in my head in my late teens/early 20s that self confidence was the single most compelling and attractive quality I could possess to attract men.  I also realized that by being the pursuer in flirtation, it ensured I would get what I wanted, and I wouldn't have to sit around pining for boys like all my girlfriend peers did.  I knew, though, that there was a careful balance between being pushy or needy and being assertive and aggressive, and I just adopted sorted of a safely-distanced predatory feel to my pursuit of men.

For me, confidence came easy after I asserting a few things in my perceptions about and actions toward men, lots of them, but the ones that stood out:

* I would never "need" a man to be happy or complete. I saw way too many girlfriends in serial relationships, bad relationships, because they could not be alone.
* My career was always going to be more important than my man until "the one" came around, because I wanted self sufficiency
* I would view men as a delicious hobby while single. No fear in approaching them, no super highs and super lows that many women face - falling in love on day one, all the intense heartache. And most importantly, never let a man manipulate me in any manner
* I would call the shots sexually, and that's the bottom line.  So there would never be pressure.
* I would remain emotionally guarded
* I would avoid the game players by being a game player myself until a man earned trust.
* If a man didn't show appropriate interested, I'd state my expectations and move on if he didn't adapt. I told myself I was worth being treated how I wanted, and no man was worth me lowering that.

When it came to S&M, I think it was a godsend for me that years and years of my initial experimentation were with vanilla guys, so they had no expectations and just went along with whatever I did.  Yes, there was the pressure and fear of "oh my god, is he going to think I am weird?" but I think this pales in comparison to *performance anxiety* based on, "Oh my god, am I doing this S&M wrong because he's so much more experienced than I am?"

Doing *small things* to build confidence is so important, but more advanced kinksters (subs/bottoms) either lack the patience to start slow, or the femdom projects that they lack the patience and measure themselves against their own perceptions.  All this mental double think can be emotionally exhausting and destroy confidence.  And a lot of subs/bottoms, by no fault of their own, are keen manipulators because that's the only way they have been able to get their needs met in the past. 

Those are the things that come to mind, but I know there are many more.  I think confidence is both something shown externally (and sometimes not necessarily authentic; in the working world, I have had to fake confidence enough times to know I can apply it in the real world, but it's only a temporary solution) and then more importantly is a an internal job.  I think the single most damaging factor for internal confidence is "falling for" a guy, getting needy, or allowing yourself to be manipulated.  If you keep control, you lower the risks.  Most importantly, you have to be prepared to walk away if a man isn't treating you right, and many women can't do that. 

Akasha



ourmsbetty -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 11:42:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

One of my main struggles was reconciling the image of a Lady and feminity, the caring and loving side of me with the Domme and the Sadist within.

I've often wondered about how difficult that must be for a woman.


I am just skimming through this thread as I really ought to be getting out the door but I saw this quote and the response and I just have to answer.

For many years there has been a sign on my bedroom door that says "all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals."  It was when I finally understood that discipline could be an act of love and that for some enduring pain was pleasure that my conflicts quieted down.

Ms. Betty



LaTigresse -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 11:58:39 AM)

For me it all just came with time. Realizing that I do not have to be like anyone else to be valid.

I had to learn to embrace all of the facets of who I am and realize that there will always be people that will have a preconceived idea of what I should be that isn't necessarily correct. There will always be people that will be critical or condescending. AND there will always be people I have a knee jerk reaction to criticize because their way is so very different from my own.

Acknowledging and embracing our differences is even more important to me than finding the common ground. The common ground is easy. Finding the confidence to be yourself and embracing others in their differences, is sometimes a bit more difficult.



PeonForHer -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 1:10:41 PM)

FR

. . . And another thing I've often wondered.  What does it feel like, the first time that you go from fantasising about dominating to actually doing it?  I've just reminded myself of the first time I got on a motorbike. I was aware that it was made to be ridden, but that it could fly off if I tweaked the controls just that bit the wrong way (all puns intended).



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 1:16:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: shallowdeep
To what extent, if any, is confidence integral to your style of dominance?


We feel the struggle with confidence, which, at least for Us, comes from a place of self worth, isn't so much about the lifestyle as it is about life. When thinking or wanting certain things, such as success in career or relationships, its a matter of learning that We ARE worthy of what We dream of having. The flip side of that this then coming to know, in a spiritual and emotional way, that if We don't attain it, it then doesn't prove that We weren't worthy after all.

Since Our role as a Master is a spiritual one, all this leads Us down a path of spiritual development and integration into every day life. We have learned about the art of the Law of Attraction and then about the surrender of egoic desires to Spirit. The same is true for our relationship: We have had a dream about what We want and We have pursued it... and now We are surrendering that in order to have what We should have for spiritual development. It doesn't mean that We are "settling"... it is something else entirely.

quote:

Have you encountered any struggles with self-doubt as you have explored? Do you recall anything standing out as particularly troublesome?


Of course. Probably the biggest for Us was (and sometimes still is) allowing Ourself to be served. This is closely related to allowing Ourself to get what We want. The latter is about working through the victim and martyr programming. We had to work through this before the surrendering mentioned above was done in a healthy way. It also leads to things surrounding self worth; We are worthy of service. Finally, it was a challenge to overcome "Hostess" programming in which the woman is expected to serve others. We still serve a great deal, but with a different intent.

quote:

If you did have issues with confidence, were they resolved with time? Could you share what helped in that process? Mentoring? Reading? Talking with others? Just jumping in and getting your feet wet? An epiphany? Something else?


Part of what set Us on a good path was some talk therapy We underwent, not for "gaining confidence" but for facing fears We had about some general life and relationship issues. From this, we learned how to do introspection and began reading and studying subjects about personality development, spiritual attitudes and emotional well-being. Most of all, we ran into a spiritual development description that made so much sense that We now teach that system today. So, most of Our development of confidence has been by being a student.

quote:

Have you noticed anything in particular about a partner's actions, attitudes, or reactions that creates a positive experience for you and helps build your confidence in your dominance? Conversely, has there ever been an interaction that rattled your confidence? Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences.


It's not so much about building or shaking confidence at this point in Our life as it is about identifying Our reactive responses and turn them into mature ones. We now have the tools, however, to identify when something is reactive and, if We can't curb the response, We can at least give the person involved, even the slave, a head's up that this is what is happening or just occurred. For example, We participated in a big group ritual piercing recently and We were feeling reactive about being left out of something. When it seemed like the boy "disappeared" and We sat down to let it know how We were feeling and We explained that Our feelings were hurt that it got pierced without asking specific permission to do so, We also let it know We were feeling reactive. In the end, it was a matter of Us not making Ourself clear to the boy.

To Us, the place(s) confidence comes from are so much deeper than than most think. Many feel it is adequate to simply "look" confident. Confidence, as well as all emotions about ourselves, are deeply rooted in our own Self awareness and Self love; they are not merely how we decide to portray ourselves. If someone wants to be confident, truly, they need to develop these two things...  and to be willing to get it wrong until they get it right. The latter is one of the true tests of confidence, in Our opinion.

Master Fire



dreamerdreaming -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 1:53:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

. . . And another thing I've often wondered.  What does it feel like, the first time that you go from fantasising about dominating to actually doing it?  I've just reminded myself of the first time I got on a motorbike. I was aware that it was made to be ridden, but that it could fly off if I tweaked the controls just that bit the wrong way (all puns intended).



It felt pefectly natural. I had an easy confidence about it. If doubts aren't there beforehand, they're unlikely to creep in right then.


Maybe it was because I started off with extensive experience at the business end of the lash. I had a great dom who I still adore to this day. I think I'm a lot like him, in my style. Maybe its because I saw how easy it was, for him. Whatever. Introspection is good, to a point. But like most anything, there's a point of diminishing returns, to it. I think that's a large part of why it went so well for me, to start with. I didn't think a whole lot about it. I just knew it would feel right, and it did. I had no reason to think otherwise.


We all make mistakes, so its no good worrying to much about that. If you give yourself permission to make mistakes, you'll have room to grow. If you let doubts and fear stifle you, you'll stagnate. Mistakes are a big part of how we learn. I like to try a lot of new things. If I was always worried about being great at everything, I don't think I'd be having much fun. Its a choice I make, to just have fun trying lots of stuff, without putting pressure on myself to be really good at it. Paradoxically, this attitude enables me to learn to do some stuff really well. I give myself the freedom to have fun learning. The fact that I had a lot of fun making mistakes, helps me learn from them and move forward. A lot of the most successful people thoughout history have had great triumph that was built on a foundation of staggering "failure". To me, there's no real failure. Only lessons learned.


I'm not sure what this has to do with the thread since I haven't read it. So sorry OP, if its a hijack. Just thought I'd answer the bareback boy, because it was a good question. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread....



Politesub53 -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 4:07:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

In a sense, I never did reconcile the sub-side in me.  I have different bits in me, they bounce off each other, and I just became happy with it.  A cheerful multiple-personality, that's me.  Pfft.  Men are not 'supposed' to be soft and yielding - they're supposed to be toughies; women are 'not supposed' to want to be hard and aggressive, they're supposed to be fluffy and nurturing.  I don't know which sex finds it the more difficult to resolve. 


Good post my friend, I think that you have hit the nail on the head. I would go a step further, and suggest male submissives also need to be somewhat confident, in order to go against the grain of what is considered the norm.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 4:13:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
In a sense, I never did reconcile the sub-side in me.  I have different bits in me, they bounce off each other, and I just became happy with it.  A cheerful multiple-personality, that's me.  Pfft.  Men are not 'supposed' to be soft and yielding - they're supposed to be toughies; women are 'not supposed' to want to be hard and aggressive, they're supposed to be fluffy and nurturing.  I don't know which sex finds it the more difficult to resolve. 


Ok, so what makes you think that I (and others) can't be sweet and sadistic all at once?

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
FR

. . . And another thing I've often wondered.  What does it feel like, the first time that you go from fantasising about dominating to actually doing it?  I've just reminded myself of the first time I got on a motorbike. I was aware that it was made to be ridden, but that it could fly off if I tweaked the controls just that bit the wrong way (all puns intended).


Well that is a hard distinction to make as I was pretty much always dominating my partners. I do remember the first time I knowingly engaged in BDSM with a young man...   I smacked him with a crop whip and he winced. I nervously laughed and actually apologized. But then he looked at me with these sweet little wanton eyes and said, "It hurts but I like it coming from you". I think I will always have that moment etched in my mind like a movie.  So then I smacked him harder... His reaction was so delicious and  got such a high! By the end, I was so into it that I made him beg me for mercy to stop ;-)

- LA



Politesub53 -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 4:38:42 PM)

LadyA, we are greatful that it is possible to be both sweet and sexy, just confused though. [;)]

Edits to quickly add.

I meant sweet and sadistic, I typed sexy due to looking at your legs. [8D]



LadyAngelika -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/15/2010 5:44:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

LadyA, we are greatful that it is possible to be both sweet and sexy, just confused though. [;)]

Edits to quickly add.

I meant sweet and sadistic, I typed sexy due to looking at your legs. [8D]


Smooooooooooooooooooooooth operator ;-)

- LA



shallowdeep -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/16/2010 12:28:40 AM)

Thank you for all the responses.

Some responses, thoughts, and further questions:

Thanks for breaking the ice and linking the other thread, Lady Angelika. It, and this one, may well have been germs for this thread. I thought it might be interesting to discuss the role of confidence (as it relates to dominance) and its development a bit more generally and explicitly – and I finally worked up the confidence to start a thread.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
It is 100% integral. That said, I don't always expect to have 100% confidence. In other words, without confidence, one cannot pull off dominance properly.

Not 100% confident 100% of the time? I hope the Dominant Review Board lets it slip this time. :)

More seriously, if you aren't quite feeling perfectly sure of yourself, does that affect they way you express your dominance? Do you tone things down or otherwise alter your approach at all? Do you seek anything different in your interaction with a partner? Any additional feedback or reassurance, perhaps?

quote:

I do remember the first time I knowingly engaged in BDSM with a young man... I smacked him with a crop whip and he winced. I nervously laughed and actually apologized. But then he looked at me with these sweet little wanton eyes and said, "It hurts but I like it coming from you". I think I will always have that moment etched in my mind like a movie. So then I smacked him harder... His reaction was so delicious and got such a high! By the end, I was so into it that I made him beg me for mercy to stop ;-)

Thanks for sharing this early experience; I think it sheds interesting light on the issue. Would you mind elaborating a bit on what his 'delicious' reaction was that made it such a positive and memorable experience for you? Was there anything in particular? Just a general attitude? I know this next question is rather speculative, but how do you think it would have affected you if his reaction to that nervous first smack had been different – something more along the lines of "I don't know about this anymore. I think we should stop." Would something like that have messed with your confidence at that stage of exploration?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming
I'm not sure what this has to do with the thread since I haven't read it. So sorry OP, if its a hijack. Just thought I'd answer the bareback boy, because it was a good question.

Artistically exposed flesh equals more responses… so that's how it works around here. :)

Actually, it wasn't a hijack at all: both Peon's question and your response fit perfectly into what I was hoping to discuss. It's certainly interesting to hear from those who didn't struggle with confidence. Your attitude seems like a healthy one – although I think it's probably more easily adopted by some than others.

Other thoughts:

Akasha and Master Fire both brought up the issue of there being a difference between merely projecting an external 'look' of confidence versus truly possessing an internal self-confidence. I'm curious what opinions there are on how well 'faking' external confidence can work to develop authentic confidence. I know that when I have to do something like teach in front of a group of people I can get nervous and need to force an external facade to hide it. After teaching the same things a few times, however, that confident exterior veneer becomes an internal reality as I realize, "Hey, I'm not doing half bad at this!" In your experience, does the same thing happen in the context of domination, or is the mindset required such that forcing it prevents true confidence from developing?

Both MsStarlett and Akasha stressed the value in starting slowly – a view I assume most here would share? (Feel free to correct me if you've had success diving into the deep end.) The contrast in their other methods was interesting. Both approaches seem aimed at reducing pressures in the experimentation process, but Akasha found unsuspecting vanillas with a lack of expectations more conducive to building confidence than the daunting list of real or perceived expectations accompanying experienced partners. On the other hand, MsStarlett finds guidance with seasoned bottoms a more comfortable way to develop confidence in skills than experimenting on a new boy. Hopefully I captured the gist of that correctly. Have others had one route or the other work well for them?



MsStarlett -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/16/2010 4:17:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
What does it feel like, the first time that you go from fantasising about dominating to actually doing it?


For me, the odd part was realizing that I had been doing it all along.  No, I didn't always act on my sadistic side, but I did normally 'lead' my relationships. 

Back in College, I had this lovely game I called "Goochie!"  I would walk up to a young man that I found attractive, stand very close to him to talk about very common subjects.  If I got the correct 'vibe' off him... ie, he didn't move away from me, his eyes dilated a bit, his breathing changed... I would look him straight in the eye, grab him by the balls, squeeze and say "Goochie!"  It was delightful to watch his eyes bulge.  Was this just a silly, sexual / control game?  Or my first, unwitting act of sadism?

The first time I put the lash to a willing man's back was heaven.  The rush was positivly sexual.  I didn't know which I really wanted more... to keep hitting him or to jump on his dick and ride.  Just FYI - we did NOT have sex that day... but down the road...



PeonForHer -> RE: Developing Confidence (2/16/2010 5:04:13 AM)

FR

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamerdreaming

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

. . . And another thing I've often wondered. What does it feel like, the first time that you go from fantasising about dominating to actually doing it? I've just reminded myself of the first time I got on a motorbike. I was aware that it was made to be ridden, but that it could fly off if I tweaked the controls just that bit the wrong way (all puns intended).


It felt pefectly natural. I had an easy confidence about it. If doubts aren't there beforehand, they're unlikely to creep in right then.

Maybe it was because I started off with extensive experience at the business end of the lash. I had a great dom who I still adore to this day. I think I'm a lot like him, in my style. Maybe its because I saw how easy it was, for him. Whatever. Introspection is good, to a point. But like most anything, there's a point of diminishing returns, to it. I think that's a large part of why it went so well for me, to start with. I didn't think a whole lot about it. I just knew it would feel right, and it did. I had no reason to think otherwise.


Yes, I know what you mean about those 'diminishing returns'.
But I didn't really expect a response from many of the dominants here because they never really did have an abrupt move, in their adulthood, from the fantasy of D/s to its reality. As LadyAngelika puts it:

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Well that is a hard distinction to make as I was pretty much always dominating my partners.


It seems to have happened pretty gradually. The comment goes, so often, something like 'I always knew I was dominant before I even knew what the word meant; I tied boys up when I was a kid, so I did the same when I grew up with partners, and it naturally became part of our sex life too'.  Ms Starlett's goolie-grabbing technique is a fine example ;-)

Heh. No such gradual 'growing into it' for myself and, I suspect, a lot of submales. As PoliteSub said, you often need an extra dose of confidence if you're a submale because the chances are you'll grow up feeling like 'less than a real male'. Then, on top of that, you'll need super-confidence in all matters dating-related because you're more awestruck by females than your vanilla male counterpart.  You watch other males getting together with girls as a teen and think, "Hell, they find it so easy to be with girls.  They even make friends with them."  The 'admiring from afar' stage lasted a long, long time for me and it was a hard slog to begin to interact with them as though they were any less than demi-goddesses.  (Can any of us even imagine grabbing a girl's tits the way Ms S grabbed boys' balls?  I doubt it!)  Hell, putting these things together: it's a wonder that it can happen at all!

God, though. The times I've dreamt, recently, of what I'd have felt if I'd found the secret writings of one-time vanilla girlfriends - and that said writings where full of femdom fantasies. I'd have put some bloody [gropes for the right superlative] humungous effort into helping her develop any confidence she required . . .



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