RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 3:54:44 AM)

The Facts
Article two of the constitution states that "no person except a natural born citizen...shall be eligible to the Office of president." Legal cases have been filed in at least three states--New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and California--challenging McCain's eligibility for the presidency. You can read the New Hampshire filing, by a 49-year-old computer programmer named Fred Hollander, here.

The McCain campaign has consulted two leading jurists, Theodore Olsen and Laurence Tribe, on the constitutional issues. Olsen and Tribe were on opposite sides of the 2000 Bush vs Gore Supreme Court case, but they see eye to eye on the question of McCain's eligibility for the presidency. They argue that McCain is a natural born citizen because the United States exercised sovereignty over the Panama Canal at the time of his birth on August 29, 1936, he was born on a U.S. military base, and both of his parents were U.S. citizens. The Olsen-Tribe opinion is available here.

Sarah Duggin, an associate law professor at Catholic University, who has made a detailed study of the natural born issue, says the question is not as simple as Olsen and Tribe make out. While she believes that McCain would likely win a determined legal challenge to his eligibility to be president, she says the matter can only be fully resolved by a constitutional amendment or a decision of the Supreme Court.

McCain's birth on August 29, 1936, in what was then the Panama Canal Zone was announced in the English language Panamanian American, available here. The McCain campaign has declined to publicly release his birth certificate, but a senior campaign official showed me a copy. Contrary to some Internet rumors that McCain was born outside the Canal Zone, in Colon, the document records his birth in the Coco Solo "family hospital."

................

I have been getting phone calls from retired State Department types who say that McCain's strongest argument that he is a natural-born citizen is that he was born abroad to two U.S. citizens. The fact that he was born on a U.S. military base or in the Panama Canal Zone is of secondary importance, they say. Not everyone born on a U.S. military base or in the Canal Zone (during the period when it was under U.S. jurisdiction) has the right to U.S. citizenship.

Here is a more technical explanation for the different categories of U.S. citizenship:

1. Jus Soli. "Right of the land." Anybody born in the U.S. is a natural born citizen, with a clear right to be president.

2. Lex Soli. "Law of the land." People who acquire their citizenship through naturalization, such as Arnold Schwarzenegger. Experts agrees that these citizens are not "natural-born," and do not have the right to be president.

2. Jus Sanguinis. "Right of blood." Anybody born outside the U.S. to U.S. citizens has right to U.S. citizenship. My retired State Department informants believe that these children are also "natural born" and have the right to become president. So do Tribe and Olsen. But other constitutional lawyers, like Professor Duggin, say the issue is not clear cut. The constitution is ambiguous and the point has never been argued before the Supreme Court.

Normally, parents of children in the Jus Sanguinis category file a Form 240 Report of Birth to the local U.S. Consulate to establish the right to citizenship. For what it's worth, it does not seem that McCain's parents filed such a form. Looking through State Department records at the National Archives, I found numerous Forms 240 filed for children born in the Canal Zone in 1936, but no such form for Senator McCain. (The fact that his parents did not file the form does not mean that he is not a citizen, just that it could be a little more difficult to prove.)

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/05/citizen_mccain.html





Louve00 -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 4:30:43 AM)

Jeeezzzz people.  Someone said it earlier in this thread (I think Steven did) but as much as this man (our President) is disliked and berated, don't you think he was fully, completely, without a doubt checked out to be an American.  Or are you still giving that man sooooo fuckin much credit that you think he's smart enough to pull the wool over an entire nation's eyes and sit in office smugly knowing he's not an American citizen? 

You guys either give yourself too much credit or not enough [8|]




tazzygirl -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 5:12:05 AM)

Uh, Louve... im not arguing he is President.. he is, and is entitled to be. I merely was pointing out the many complaints, and now how some are accusing him of identity theft.




Louve00 -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 5:19:16 AM)

Tazzy, I'm not for a moment questioning your links or your words.  I just so happened to post my opinion after yours, but it wasn't to you!  I suppose it was to nobody in particular either.  Just to allllllll those on this thread and past threads that think Obama has indeed tricked them into voting him into office.  As I said....they either think they (the people) are that gullible...or the President is smart, snide, and able to finagle himself into anything he wants.




tazzygirl -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 5:22:43 AM)

lol.. according to some, he is smart enough to bribe the SS, smart enough to get a Columbia degree while never attending, smart enough to fool a country and then refuse to do what that country demands of him( jumping through hoops to please a few).

Personally, i think he is pretty smart to ignore all the idiots and do his job.




Louve00 -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 5:30:55 AM)

Agreed wholeheartedly on your last sentence!!!!!  Agreed, agreed, agreed (as Gomer Pile would say it lol)

I'm glad I only half heartedly listen to all this hype.  It'd make me as insane as some that post on these boards lol




DarlingSavage -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 5:40:54 AM)

Rachel Maddow Discusses 'Birthers' With Washington Independent's Dave Weigel

Weigel states, "I don't know what they want anymore, because every time Hawaii verifies something, or a reporter verifies something, or a witness verifies something--that witness, that state, that reporter is lying, and their evidence must be thrown aside."




kittinSol -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 5:58:02 AM)

It's quite clear that those cretins want everything but the truth.




DomImus -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 5:58:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear
You would think that any person who is a serious contender for President, would have gone through extensive background checks prior to being able to run for presidency? I fail to believe that the security agency would fuck up that bad to allow a person to use a falsified identification and be elected as leader of a country like the US.


Would this be the same elite security agency that cannot even keep party crashers out of the White House?






kittinSol -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 6:02:52 AM)

How irrelevant can you get, seriously [:D] .




mnottertail -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 6:03:00 AM)

no, that would be a different one.




Marc2b -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 7:10:59 AM)

quote:

Odd that that's the way you took it.  I was wondering about an undead candidate myself.


Just a quip to point out that it is easy to interpet words in many ways.  As for zombies, I think they are legally classified as citizens of Hell and therefore ineligible to be President - but that didn't stop Gerald Ford apparently.




Wolf2Bear -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 7:39:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear
You would think that any person who is a serious contender for President, would have gone through extensive background checks prior to being able to run for presidency? I fail to believe that the security agency would fuck up that bad to allow a person to use a falsified identification and be elected as leader of a country like the US.


Would this be the same elite security agency that cannot even keep party crashers out of the White House?



Pulease......we all know the US has more than one security agency.




thompsonx -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 7:54:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Does anyone ever wonder why a new nation composed of immigrants and the children of immigrants would have a native born citizen requirement......short answer.
Alexander Hamilton,a bastard born in the Carribean Hamilton had many enemies(of course in his mind they were lesser lights jealous of his genius)men who had no desire to see Hamilton hold the office of Chief Executive....hence the native born American requirement.



Don't forget he was black also




tazzygirl -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 8:08:06 AM)

They dont want to hear that.




thompsonx -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 8:18:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

They dont want to hear that.


Lots of people don't want to hear my shit.




tazzygirl -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 8:19:49 AM)

lol... i dont mind. and i promise, if i hear bullshit, ill argue with ya, ok?




mnottertail -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 8:21:31 AM)

and if I hear you shit, huntie, I will know the bathroom is taken, and leave you to it.

Ron




thompsonx -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 9:29:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

and if I hear you shit, huntie, I will know the bathroom is taken, and leave you to it.

Ron


Binjo doku deska?




Musicmystery -> RE: President Guilty of Identify Theft? (2/17/2010 9:36:08 AM)

場合は、便所のふしだらな女 - あなたの膝の上、開始吸う人の足に広がる...




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