Not so petty (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> Not so petty (2/19/2010 9:14:58 PM)

Remember that campaign promise about not raising taxes on people earning less than $250,000 a year?

Obama: Social Security fix would be simple

President Obama seems to have forgotten about it.



Musicmystery -> RE: Not so petty (2/19/2010 9:20:03 PM)

Oh the horror.



slvemike4u -> RE: Not so petty (2/19/2010 9:50:46 PM)

What we need is someone in that office who no matter the financial realities will cut the taxes of the most well off.......oh wait a minute.....never mind.



pahunkboy -> RE: Not so petty (2/19/2010 9:55:48 PM)

like I said- they stole your retirement. 



DomKen -> RE: Not so petty (2/19/2010 10:13:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Remember that campaign promise about not raising taxes on people earning less than $250,000 a year?

Obama: Social Security fix would be simple

President Obama seems to have forgotten about it.

Never let it be said that the conservatives won't try and twist a good idea needed for the benefit of all to be some how a betrayal.



AnimusRex -> RE: Not so petty (2/19/2010 10:17:28 PM)

So like, we might have to pay more money to finance our retirement when we get older?



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 4:37:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Remember that campaign promise about not raising taxes on people earning less than $250,000 a year?

Obama: Social Security fix would be simple

President Obama seems to have forgotten about it.

Never let it be said that the conservatives won't try and twist a good idea needed for the benefit of all to be some how a betrayal.


First its not a good idea. Why has been explained at least half a dozen times. Second, its just another lie from the fool on the hill.



Sanity -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 8:04:53 AM)


EVERYTHING'S simple to a Liberal. Just raise taxes! There is nothing that won't cure.

And campaign promises? Isn't every politician lower than a dog shit eating, sewer dwelling flea living on a rats ass?

So why should anyone expect Obama to be any different.




Musicmystery -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 8:48:34 AM)

quote:

EVERYTHING'S simple to a Liberal. Just raise taxes! There is nothing that won't cure.


Nice try. But unsupported nonsense.

Especially when "conservatives" cry for tax cuts in good times and bad times, calling it economic necessity, ignoring the contradiction.

Now....paying for programs, rather than pretend money magically appears...THAT'S fiscal responsibility.

Everything's simple to you---just say it's Liberals to blame.

This imaginary left/right paradigm and people's faith in its existence are among the reasons we're in all this mess.





TheHeretic -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 9:02:07 AM)

Yeah.  Fuck those idiots who actually thought his words might mean something.  They were dumb enough to believe in him, they deserve whatever they get.

It isn't like he'll ever have to ask people to vote for him and his party again.



Sanity -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 9:02:40 AM)


"Paying for programs" while expanding programs, and introducing more and more programs... when we need to be cutting programs.

We've got politicians hiring bureaucrats to do their jobs for them.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-20/obama-considering-picking-ceo-for-deficit-panel-bowles-says.html

Theres no magic needed, its all very simple. Taxes that are too high and deficit spending both destroy the economy. And when you pay people to not work, when you provide everything for them you destroy productivity, and the coffers eventually dry up. There is very little that government is really good at, but one thing its great at is wasting taxpayer money.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Especially when "conservatives" cry for tax cuts in good times and bad times, calling it economic necessity, ignoring the contradiction.

Now....paying for programs, rather than pretend money magically appears...THAT'S fiscal responsibility.

Everything's simple to you---just say it's Liberals to blame.

This imaginary left/right paradigm and people's faith in its existence are among the reasons we're in all this mess.






Musicmystery -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 9:07:06 AM)

quote:

when you pay people to not work, when you provide everything for them you destroy productivity


I can live with that except for this.

Reagan peddled that bullshit too. First, you need jobs for them to do.

In the short run, that takes stimulus. We aren't in an agricultural economy where everyone can just wait it out.



Sanity -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 9:15:02 AM)


If Liberals weren't so loathsome of jobs-providing corporations, and if the minimum wage weren't so artificially high, and if we could access some of our abundant natural resources, there would be a lot more jobs to go around.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

when you pay people to not work, when you provide everything for them you destroy productivity


I can live with that except for this.

Reagan peddled that bullshit too. First, you need jobs for them to do.

In the short run, that takes stimulus. We aren't in an agricultural economy where everyone can just wait it out.




Moonhead -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 9:15:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

when you pay people to not work, when you provide everything for them you destroy productivity


I can live with that except for this.

Reagan peddled that bullshit too. First, you need jobs for them to do.

In the short run, that takes stimulus. We aren't in an agricultural economy where everyone can just wait it out.


The hilarious thing about that, of course, being that Reagan started the ball rolling on outsourcing as many jobs out of the country as was possible.



Sanity -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 9:21:33 AM)


That lie wouldn't be nearly as hilarious if you could put your bong down for just five freakin' minutes there, moonbeam.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The hilarious thing about that, of course, being that Reagan started the ball rolling on outsourcing as many jobs out of the country as was possible.



Musicmystery -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 9:22:23 AM)

quote:

If Liberals weren't so loathsome of jobs-providing corporations, and if the minimum wage weren't so artificially high, and if we could access some of our abundant natural resources, there would be a lot more jobs to go around.


AND with that, you return to invented positions and supported attacks. Talking to you is a waste of time.

*plenty of corporate loving folk all over Washington
*not to mention free trade advocates
*minimum wage is low in real dollars, and below market equilibrium--even fast food places pay more
*we access plenty of our abundant natural resources, obviously

MAking up shit is not an effective way to convince anyone. It's just to show you don't know what you're talking about.



Sanity -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 9:28:39 AM)


Right - Liberals don't hate corporations.  [8|]

Prices for locally provided goods and services didn't shoot up noticably with the last minimum wage hike.  [8|]

And the environazi wackos haven't deprived especially Western states millions and millions of very high paying jobs...   [8|]

If you believe any of that you're higher than moonbeam is.



AnimusRex -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 9:34:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
If Liberals weren't so loathsome of jobs-providing corporations, and if the minimum wage weren't so artificially high, and if we could access some of our abundant natural resources, there would be a lot more jobs to go around.


These Liberals who loathe corporations; could you please point one out? I don't think I have ever seen one. There is more evidence of Sasquatch than a corporate-hating politician.

Here in Southern California, and in many other parts of the country, there isn't a real minimum wage; there are so many illegals working for sub-,minimum wage, that if you are an employer, you actually only need to pay your employees what the Free Market [pause to genuflect] will bear.

And yet the jobs fairy still does not appear.

But as to the original post- we all have to find a way to support ourselves in old age. The original idea was that we all pay into a pool during our younger working years, and this establishes a minimum level of support for all of us in our old age.

Obviously, as demographics change, we need to adjust the levels of pay in and pay out to keep things rolling. So actually, Sanity, your notion of cutting progams is one I support. For instance I see nothing wrong with raising the eligibility age for Social Security, since people are living and working longer nowadays.

But I also don't see a problem with asking people to contribute more into the pool. There is no free lunch, remember? If we want to make sure we have a society that doesn't toss Grandma onto an ice floe then we should be willing to pony up more money for retirement.



Moonhead -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 9:37:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


That lie wouldn't be nearly as hilarious if you could put your bong down for just five freakin' minutes there, moonbeam.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

The hilarious thing about that, of course, being that Reagan started the ball rolling on outsourcing as many jobs out of the country as was possible.


So you can demonstrate that Reagan didn't encourage companies to shift manufacturing out of your country while he was in power, then?



Musicmystery -> RE: Not so petty (2/20/2010 9:39:19 AM)

Life is sure simple when you make up your own facts, isn't it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Right - Liberals don't hate corporations.  [8|]

Correct. Start with Warren Buffet. Or Bill Gates. Or NAFTA. Or the bank bailout. Or the auto manufacturer rescue.

Not giving them free reign to do absolutely anything is another matter. Ask Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican.

quote:

Prices for locally provided goods and services didn't shoot up noticably with the last minimum wage hike.  [8|]

Correct. They didn't. In fact, they didn't change at all.

What drove huge price increases is the rapid increase in petroleum--from heating oil to gasoline to especially fruits, vegetables (which doubled and tripled in cost), and anything else (which is most things) trucked or flown (or fertilized).

quote:

And the environazi wackos haven't deprived especially Western states millions and millions of very high paying jobs...   [8|]

Very high paying jobs? Like what?

This is a different statement and issue, though, than the one you started with. Changing the subject is an issue for you.

We use plenty of our abundant natural resources every day. Including in the West.






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