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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:17:20 AM   
Sanity


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How many Liberals on these boards have argued in favor of holding individuals responsible for the actions of corporations. That would destroy the corporation as a viable entity, which is just one example of the hate I've seen for corporations coming from the left.

The left despises corporations. Obama talks about "fat cat bankers" and he lashes out at any other executives who dare to live as well as he does. Detroit executives who dare to fly to DC...

And its my own experience, I watched as prices surged following the minimum wage hikes. And yeah, illegals are driving wages down, thats also true, you have a valid point there.

And what jobs have been reduced or eliminated in the west? You mean besides mining and logging and ranching?

You've never heard of the spotted owl or the snail darter? Half of Oregon is deserted now where jobs were once plentiful.

I live here, I'm half an hour from the Oregon border. I've worked the mine sites and the lumber mills, my ears are on the ground here, I know whats going on.


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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:19:48 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		How many Liberals on these boards have argued in favor of holding individuals responsible for the actions of corporations.

Can't think of a one necessarily, unless that person is responsible for said dastardly acts ala Lay and Skilling, et al.

Alot of people on these boards have argued in favor of holding corporations responsible for the actions of corporations.

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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:21:29 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

How many Liberals on these boards have argued in favor of holding individuals responsible for the actions of corporations.


My guess is none.

Corporations are a legal entity. That's why they exist, to limit liability.

Individuals acting criminally is a separate matter, of course.

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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:22:54 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
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Status: offline 		Caveat: Except when running for congress or giving money to political candidates.

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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:23:13 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

How many Liberals on these boards have argued in favor of holding individuals responsible for the actions of corporations.


My guess is none.

Corporations are a legal entity. That's why they exist, to limit liability.

Individuals acting criminally is a separate matter, of course.

Pity Bernie Madoff didn't think to incorporate himself before he came up with his money making wheeze, isn't it?

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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:24:08 AM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		No...his actions were criminal. Incorporating wouldn't have helped.


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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:25:35 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Fair point.

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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:29:48 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		but the invisible hand would have made him act in altruistic ways, as a jobs producing company in the day, had he but incorporated. I know his family wouldn't have been in on it, that's what saved these companies and made jobs and nearly all of americas people wealthy, so that they need taxes lowered.

http://corporatecrimereporter.com/top100.html

greed and corruption, its whats for dinner in america.

RobertMitchum

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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:45:05 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		The facts are that social security is in a heap load of trouble. The Bush administration just passed the buck on to the next administration as previously done by Clinton.

No one wants to tackle the mess. You cut benefits you lose the vote of all of the old fuckers. That is not the sure fire way to get elected.

Social security was fucked up in 2000 just as it is today. The problem has now been compounded by another decade of denial. Someone is going to have to tackle a very unpopular problem.

This is what I dig about this guy. He recognizes that there are problems and no matter how unpopular the cure might be they are necessary.

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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:48:58 AM   
Sanity


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You're a moron. The Bush Administration tried to address this issue. Just because you weren't awake and didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Bush's only problem was the party of NO (the Democrats) failed to work with him or provide any viable solutions of their own.


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The facts are that social security is in a heap load of trouble. The Bush administration just passed the buck on to the next administration as previously done by Clinton.

No one wants to tackle the mess. You cut benefits you lose the vote of all of the old fuckers. That is not the sure fire way to get elected.

Social security was fucked up in 2000 just as it is today. The problem has now been compounded by another decade of denial. Someone is going to have to tackle a very unpopular problem.

This is what I dig about this guy. He recognizes that there are problems and no matter how unpopular the cure might be they are necessary.


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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:50:30 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

How many Liberals on these boards have argued in favor of holding individuals responsible for the actions of corporations.


My guess is none.

Corporations are a legal entity. That's why they exist, to limit liability.

Individuals acting criminally is a separate matter, of course.


There have been plenty of posts advocating removing limited liability protection. There was a fairly lengthy thread where I pointed out that it would destroy aggregation of capital, and someone didn't even have a clue what that meant.

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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:51:32 AM   
Sanity


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Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I talk to people the way they talk to me. You don't like it?

Tough.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

AND with that, you return to invented positions and supported attacks...


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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:52:10 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You're a moron. The Bush Administration tried to address this issue. Just because you weren't awake and didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Bush's only problem was the party of NO (the Democrats) failed to work with him or provide any viable solutions of their own.


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The facts are that social security is in a heap load of trouble. The Bush administration just passed the buck on to the next administration as previously done by Clinton.

No one wants to tackle the mess. You cut benefits you lose the vote of all of the old fuckers. That is not the sure fire way to get elected.

Social security was fucked up in 2000 just as it is today. The problem has now been compounded by another decade of denial. Someone is going to have to tackle a very unpopular problem.

This is what I dig about this guy. He recognizes that there are problems and no matter how unpopular the cure might be they are necessary.



They had a majority in Congress for six years. They rubber stamped Bush's every word. That's what cost them in 2006.

You're the moron. If they'd wanted it fixed, it would have been fixed.

What--you're going to argue Democrats wouldn't support keeping Social Security solvent? Idiot.

What Bush wanted was to ELIMINATE Social Security by PRIVATIZING it.

And if he had succeeded----retirement benefits would be in one fucking hell of a mess now, wouldn't they!

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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:54:29 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
I talk to people the way they talk to me. You don't like it?

Tough.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

AND with that, you return to invented positions and supported attacks...


No, you don't. You're unable to support your positions, and you're unable to answer refutations, so you change the subject.

At some point, it should occur to you that, when you have to repeatedly make up stuff or run, that you're wrong.

But since you don't actually think, but just continually repeat the popular buzzwords and phrases on the media, you've nothing to do but sling shit.


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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:55:44 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You're a moron. The Bush Administration tried to address this issue. Just because you weren't awake and didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Bush's only problem was the party of NO (the Democrats) failed to work with him or provide any viable solutions of their own.


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The facts are that social security is in a heap load of trouble. The Bush administration just passed the buck on to the next administration as previously done by Clinton.

No one wants to tackle the mess. You cut benefits you lose the vote of all of the old fuckers. That is not the sure fire way to get elected.

Social security was fucked up in 2000 just as it is today. The problem has now been compounded by another decade of denial. Someone is going to have to tackle a very unpopular problem.

This is what I dig about this guy. He recognizes that there are problems and no matter how unpopular the cure might be they are necessary.



How did he try and correct the problem...By suggesting that we privatize 2% of contributions into the stock market...What a wonderful idea. What would be the value of those accounts today?

So moron, show me what steps Bush took to try and correct the problem of a failing social security program...links would be nice....Moron.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/20/2010 10:56:50 AM >

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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:57:25 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Now, Sanity...  There is no need for such charges.  I'm absolutely sure that DG heard somewhere along the line that Bush and the Republicans had a plan to steal everyone's retirement.



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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:57:38 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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quote:

links would be nice


Don't be silly. Talk radio/TV doesn't give out links.

Just easy to remember short words and phrases, so as not to tax the minds of their listeners.

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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 10:59:02 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

I'm absolutely sure that DG heard somewhere along the line that Bush and the Republicans had a plan to steal everyone's retirement.


Actually what DG said is factually accurate:

quote:

How did he try and correct the problem...By suggesting that we privatize 2% of contributions into the stock market...What a wonderful idea. What would be the value of those accounts today?

Puts him way ahead of Sanity. And in this thread, you.





< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/20/2010 11:00:21 AM >

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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 11:17:26 AM   
domiguy


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Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Now, Sanity...  There is no need for such charges.  I'm absolutely sure that DG heard somewhere along the line that Bush and the Republicans had a plan to steal everyone's retirement.




Come on now. It has been running down hill for quite some time. It is a political hot potato that has been totally ignored because it is just easier to pass the buck on to the next guy or generation. George did the exact same thing as Clinton..Nothing!

It takes stones to address unpopular issues with facts. The system is broken and is failing. At some point someone is going to have to correct the problem. If I were Obama I would probably just pass the buck like his predecessors have done.

He seems to have this need to fix things that are broken. The bail out, though not managed the best, was necessary. Health care reform is mandatory for the welfare of this nation. Social Security reforms have to take place. It is just a matter of time. All of these problems are comparable to an analogy of our crumbing infrastructure. You can put it off forever till the bridge collapses and we are all up to our necks in water or you can be proactive in your attempts to never allow these events to occur.

Like him or not, Obama has shown he is attempting to be proactive.

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RE: Not so petty - 2/20/2010 11:33:47 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

So moron, show me what steps Bush took to try and correct the problem of a failing social security program...links would be nice....Moron.


The problem with Sanity isn't that he is a moron, it is that he is  humorless 

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 2/20/2010 11:34:24 AM >

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