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stereo types - 3/28/2006 10:06:05 PM   
Slaveboiz


Posts: 38
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline 		on the subject of stereo types what is your experience with them and how do you work to change them?

slave ziggy
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RE: stereo types - 3/28/2006 10:07:29 PM   
Slaveboiz


Posts: 38
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline 		and OMG i am so not vanilla

thanks

slave ziggy

Internatioanl slave 2006

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RE: stereo types - 3/29/2006 1:15:14 AM   
BeeQueen


Posts: 73
Joined: 9/29/2005
Status: offline 		its a quick way to put new things in a pattern, very human and absolutly inavoidable. everything u hear and see and feel is put in a pattern/category.
what i do is take the stereotypes to discribe things, couse without them u dont have any start to explain anything. its a mere construction for communication, nothing else

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RE: stereo types - 3/29/2006 1:39:20 AM   
brightspot


Posts: 3052
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Slaveboiz

on the subject of stereo types what is your experience with them and how do you work to change them?

slave ziggy


Totally challenge every single one, ergo to wit, anticipate CHANGE!
If not for anyone else , Growth for myself .
 
*Brightspot

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But..."May at Least One person have a sense of Humor!" ~KML.

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RE: stereo types - 3/29/2006 3:01:49 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Slaveboiz

on the subject of stereo types what is your experience with them and how do you work to change them?

slave ziggy


What is the premise of your question? It's very ambiguous. LOL! A stereotype is a broad generalization that attempts to assess something without first developing all of pertinent information. Changing a stereotype only means remaining inconsistent of that generalization. The person making the stereotype only needs to become more definitive in their assessment. Hope I made sense!


 - The Ranger





_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


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RE: stereo types - 3/29/2006 5:09:39 AM   
Cloudz


Posts: 836
Joined: 9/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Slaveboiz

and OMG i am so not vanilla

thanks

slave ziggy

Internatioanl slave 2006


ziggy,

Don't sweat the label...it is a CM stereotype that you get to wear until you post more. 

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Enjoy the Journey,
~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."


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RE: stereo types - 3/29/2006 6:34:59 AM   
MysticalPhoenix


Posts: 212
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Kelloggsville, Vanilla County MI
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Slaveboiz

and OMG i am so not vanilla


All new posters are given unlimited vanilla ice cream to eat until they reach 25 posts.

Please feel free to add sprinkles, hot fudge, or anything else to your ice cream.

Phoenix

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---------------------------------------------------------
Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are.

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RE: stereo types - 3/29/2006 6:37:45 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		*chuckle* No, ziggy, you're SO not vanilla!

As somone before me said, stereotypes are generalizations. Sometimes, they can help us, like in profiling; they were, in fact, based on some truth, even if the stereotype has developed WAY past that little bit of truth into a gross generalization.

For example, the stereotype I run across with myself is that Fem Doms are all Bitch Goddesses. Now, we know that some Fem Doms are, indeed, Bitch Goddesses. But, we know that this is not true of all Fem Doms. It's more accurate to say that if we run across a Bitch Goddess, chances are that the person is female, either through identification or born gender. But, things get twisted. People use faulty logic all the time.

It's hard to change stereotypes when we live up to them. Some days, I really am just Bitchy, so it can easily be assumed that I'm a BG. In order to change the stereotype, we have to maintain ourselves and conduct ourselves in such a manner that contradicts it. Even then, however, I'm betting what we get is "All Fem Doms, except YOU, are Bitch Goddesses". It's a start. The only way that the stereotype will really change, in my opinion, is if a large cross section of the people affected challenge it and show it's not true. And even then, we aren't guarenteed it will work. Still, a small step is progress and lots of small steps over time can have an impact.

So, does that help with the presentation? LOL

Fire

And I'm SO not a newbie. A nerd perhaps... .


< Message edited by MasterFireMaam -- 3/29/2006 6:39:37 AM >

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RE: stereo types - 3/29/2006 11:19:06 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Slaveboiz

on the subject of stereo types what is your experience with them and how do you work to change them?

slave ziggy


Welcome, slave ziggy. I think I've seen you at some cons but we've never been formally introduced.

I am me, myself. I guess that's how I work to change them, by being myself but not shying away from calling myself a dominant.

Stereotypes I see most often in pornography, erotica, and mainstream media. Rarely do I encounter people in meatlife who believe all the stereotypes but then again why would they approach me if they do?

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: stereo types - 3/29/2006 11:35:34 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Slaveboiz

on the subject of stereo types what is your experience with them and how do you work to change them?

slave ziggy


I prefer the four speaker types with a separate subwoofer.  When I was younger, we didn't much choice.  All stereos came with only two channels, but now there are much more choice.

I'm not sure how I'd change them.  I'm not that good with printed circuits.

_____________________________

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RE: stereo types - 3/29/2006 6:17:49 PM   
Aimtoplease101


Posts: 319
Joined: 2/8/2006
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Slaveboiz

on the subject of stereo types what is your experience with them and how do you work to change them?

slave ziggy


I generally go to Circuit City or Best Buy.  If Sony doesn't work for you, there's plenty of competition these days.

Regards,
ATP

_____________________________

Pleasing you pleases me.

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RE: stereo types - 3/29/2006 7:20:21 PM   
Slaveboiz


Posts: 38
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline 		First please accept my appologize for the question on stereotypes.. i should know not to try that so late in the evening .. or was that early in the morning.. at any rate.. i did manage to sit down for a few and write down some thoughts on stereotypes.... it has become a class

John you make me smile... got to love a man with is sense of twisted humor

please forgive the length take from it what makes sense and let the rest be edited lol

thanks A/all

DEFINING STEREOTYPES AND PREJUDICES: A stereotype is any preconceived idea about an individual, group, organization or idea without sufficient information or experience. Stereotyping usually doesn’t acknowledge the individual with in the group or community. Some common stereotypes with in the BDSM community are centered on sexual orientation, relationship dynamics and SM styles. Stereotypes that are found with in any community tend to be multi- layered.

Within the leather SM community we find that stereotyping is an every day occurrence and is a useful tool when it helps us in determining how to initially intern act with one another. It is like the shortcut button on our computers. We find stereotyping a useful tool as long as it doesn’t prevent us from see the individual as we have more experience with them.

Labels also help with using stereotypes as a tool. We resist them by seeing them as too confining, and not speaking to the whole of who we are, but in a community those methods of interacting are based on labels, they work.

For example: Someone introduces me as slave ziggy International slave 2006. Immediately and perhaps without even recognizing it you will have stereotyped me based on your notions of what you think a slave should be and what and international slave should be. Over time I would hope that you see more of me then the initial label

As for the differences in stereotypes and prejudices, being prejudice is a judgment made by an individual about another individual or group of individual with out having all the facts. It is an opinion made about another with out regards to the facts even if they are available. Prejudices often are fear responses and prove to be a detriment to one’s ability to interact with the greater community. They are also often times biases based on irrational thinking.

For example: A heterosexual male may have a fear of gays. His irrational fear is that if he is socializing with gay me either he will be hit on or someone will see him and questions his sexual orientation. Where there may be some reality in that fear, more often then not if he is straight a gay man will respect that and will not make unwanted sexual advances.
 
EXTERNAL STEREOTYPING: When we talk about external stereotypes within the BDSM community we are talking in terms of labels. Human nature dictates that we us stereotyping as way of outwardly categorizing people it also helps us in understanding where we fit into the larger group or community. By categorizing people we come to understand if a group or community meets our needs.

Since the early nineties we have seen a huge influx of individuals coming into the lifestyle and although some see this as a bad thing I am happy to see that as a community we are opening ourselves up to a wide variety of relationships, sexualities and SM desires. Also we are seeing broader labels that more accurately who we are.

Another positive about external stereotyping is that it sets a standard of behavior for individuals with in groups and organizations, regardless of how loosely they may seem. It also gives us a starting point for our own knowledge and growth

The drawback to external stereotyping is that is does still confine us as to the communities notion of what we are suppose act or be like and that changes from year to year.

For example: Ten or fifteen years ago it would be almost unheard of for me to be giving a class on anything to do with Mastery and slavery and I would certainly not be one of the driving forces in a BDSM group. Ten or fifteen years ago it would have not been ok to admit that as a Master it is ok to love your property.

Another drawback is that it says nothing about one individuality and style of Mastery and slavery. Because of this we often feel isolated or trapped into adopting others views on our individual relationships with our masters and slaves.

The bottom line here for me is that stereotyping has its initial uses so long as it doesn’t prevent you from exporting others as individuals. Don’t allow your fears of what you think you know about any one group or individual prevent you from learning and growing.
 
 
BREAKING DOWN EXTERNAL STEREOTYPES: If we are able to acknowledge our need to stereotype we stand a better chance too if avoiding it. We begin this by assessing where our comfort zone is as well as where we are at in our lifestyle journey. It is only from this point are we able to look outside our comfort zone, address our irrational fears and begin to broaden our circles and our experiences.

1.     Seeing the value in the individual: If we only see the group and not the individuals with in that group, we less our chances to break down any stereotype we may have.

2.    Choosing what is of real value: Choosing what is needed and leaving the rest is important in breaking stereotypes. In a community that often offers only a few groups to choose from for support and education. Look at what is of over all value. What is needed on the individual level as it pertains to community becomes more important.

For example: If I am a gay male and I need community but the only group in my area is pansexual I may choose join that group and then seek out individuals with in that group that I can connect with regardless of their sexual orientation.
        
3.     Don’t assume you know: This is crucial in breaking down external stereotypes. You may think you have an understanding of a group or individual but without understanding who and what that person is beyond the label they have made for themselves we really don’t know. Always remain open to others and you will find that people will remain open you as well
4.     Taking a nonjudgmental and defenseless approach to others: In my time in the community I have heard the old standard “Whatever works for them” while at the same time judging the correctness of the relationship they are observing.  No matter how much we think we know about those around us, we are never privy to their needs and motives. Defenselessness is another wonderful approach to breaking down stereotypes. Remain open to the possibilities of learning and you will find that others will do the same.

We have talked a lot about stereotypes as they pertain to the community and our place in that community.  Now lets take a look at internal stereotypes and how they work in your relationship.
 
 
INTERNAL STEREOTYPING: Internal stereotyping is how we view ourselves in relation to our partners. In the case of D/s and M/s it is specifically how we view our roles and responsibly with in the relationship dynamic. It is usually as a result of a lack of experience or exposure and an unclear understanding of what makes up these roles. Internal stereotyping is often a kin to fantasy or fiction.

When we begin to actualize our D/s or M/s fantasy, it is usually after we have been inundated with the idea of M/s based on fictional characters or online interactions which try and tell us what we are “supposed” to do or be with little regard for our individual nature. Any deviation from that notion can leave us feeling like we are doing it all wrong or that we have failed.

We are bound to use what we think we know about Mastery and slavery as a starting point but that information must give way to our true nature and experiences.

For example: A person may perceive a slave as someone who is to be quiet, demure and un-opinionated that is the stereotype of a slave. But what if the slave is a born leader or has the ability to create and teach.

What happens often is that the dynamic slave personality ends up feeling stifled and fails to reach his or her full potential.

Another example common in Master slave relationships is that them master is the epitome of control not only of himself but also those around him or her, and that he is always in the mode of actively dominating his or her property regardless of what is going on around him.

This internal stereotype does not allow the Master to be human, to falter in their journey as a Master. The pressure to be “on” day after day and year after year, simply to uphold this particular stereotype is bound to have an adverse affect on the master slave relationship.
 
 
THE RESULT OF INTERNAL STEREOTYPING: Whether it is internal or external, stereotyping can be damaging to the individual nature of any D/s or M/s relationship

What we most often find is a resistance to sharing with others the personal and individual challenges and successes in the Master slave relationship and an increase of the sense of isolation. Issues tend to get really big when there isn’t an avenue to help keep issues in perspective.

Another result of internal stereotyping is that we go in the opposite direction and only surround ourselves with other Masters and slave, which pulls us farther and farther from understanding the nature of the greater community and what it has to offer all of us.
 
 
RESISTING STEREOTYPES IN GENERAL: Chances are as long as we view things from different perspective we will continue to use stereotyping as a way to interact with others. Experience and exposure are two key elements to lessoning the effects of stereotyping either with in the community or within our own relationships. Also by ensuring that there are outside support systems in place greatly assist us when issues of expectation and roles arise and knowing ones own self is highly beneficial in preventing internal stereotypes. Positive self- talk is yet another way. In the case of external stereotyping remaining open to new experience and information goes along way.

Conclusion:  If we understand that stereotyping is a part of how we interact with others we stand a better chance of resisting it. We break down stereotypes by be truest to ourselves first and by remembering that the goal is to succeed while feeling good about ourselves, out partners and our community

Thank you for your time and consideration

slave ziggy

International slave 2006

http://www.internationalmasterandslave2006.com

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RE: stereo types - 3/29/2006 7:23:27 PM   
Slaveboiz


Posts: 38
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline 		smiles Ms Tammy

Yes i do remember a few convos.. good to see you as always... am working on improving my vanilla status lol

be well Ma'am
slave ziggy

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RE: stereo types - 3/29/2006 8:46:20 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline 		It's similar to labels.  As long as one realizes that the map is not the ground it illustrates and the photo is only a limited image, they can be valuable.  The problem comes with forgetting these limitations.

I use what I call The Elsa Syndrome.  We all remember Elsa from the book and movie Born Free.  A wonderful, playful lion raised by a understanding family and released in a preserve in Africa.

So the next time you are in Africa and you see a lion bounding through the grass toward you, what will you do?

I recommend you lift your rifle and try to drop the beast before it makes you dinner.

Now if that lion happens to be Elsa, a terrible thing will have happened, but sometimes you gotta play the odds.

< Message edited by JohnWarren -- 3/29/2006 8:50:08 PM >

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RE: stereo types - 3/29/2006 9:12:49 PM   
lushusboobs


Posts: 83
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline 		I think that fighting stereotypes is a very spiritual battle.  I think it has to do with finding your own spiritual center and liking who you are as a person and being okay with that.  That is not to say that you don't evaluate yourself from time to time against external values.  But believing in your inner voice to tell you what is right for you and believing in your own autonomy is important.

What if you don't fit in the box they've created for you?  Well, then break out of the box!  It is easier said than done.  Lots of times our inner conflicts from the values of our childhood or the inner voices of our parents seem to get in the way of having peace with who we are as people.  However, I think that once you accept that you are different and that you are okay as you are, then that is half the battle.  Once you are okay with people disapproving of your lifestyle and can say to yourself "It doesn't matter what they think" then you are half way there to believing in yourself.

Living an authentic life despite not fitting into the mainstream is very courageous.  Not allowing negative stereotypes to shape your life is also a sign of a strong and courageous person.


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RE: stereo types - 3/30/2006 6:16:22 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		Nice job of re-explaining much easier to contribute to...
 
How I avoid:
 
External Stereo typing: This is incredibly easy for me because I live in such a tiny island, our D/s community is more like a family dinner, so it easy to spend one on one time with every one, the tool I find the most helpful is that I was raised non judgmentally, and because I have some off the wall kinks I am pretty tolerant of everyone else's.
(the draw back to this of course besides the obvious is that we dont have many lifestyle activity's, work shops or speakers, so if you/both are planning on coming to Maui for anything please let me know)
 
 
Internal Stereo typing: Avoiding internal stereo typing is much harder, because when you first get to lifestyle It is so over whelming, and you are a blank canvas, and imprint like a baby bird on the first people you connect deeply to, and tthat hen defines so much of your experience from them on.
 
You see it all the time with One-true-way isms Where did those ideas come from? there is no BDSM hand book, there is no right and wrong to the lifestyle...it comes from early imprinting and to me it is important to avoid it, the way I think I am avoiding it is by reading lots, staying open to everything, and I think for me any way that after a decade of experience you really get to see through the image to the person.
 
When I was a slave I was a strong leadership type slave and because mine and my Owners vision of what a slave was (ie seen but not heard etc) parts of my personality took some almost fatal blows, however I am 99% recovered today. Today if faced with that sort of stero typing, (something I call template BDSM) I would have a much stronger foundation to incorporate all my strenths in the service of another, not just the template skills and behaviors.

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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: stereo types - 3/30/2006 10:04:36 PM   
lushusboobs


Posts: 83
Joined: 5/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Nice job of re-explaining much easier to contribute to...
quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

Actually I was not explaining but rather saying what I've learned from my own hard knocks.  I studied intercultural communication and feminism  before I could even verbalize the feelings of alienation that I've felt my whole life.  Those words came from my heart.  I've had a lifetime of trying to understand stereotyping and alienation as probably many of us have.


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You'd look pretty in my panties...

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Profile   Post #: 17
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