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RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 5:16:01 AM   
BLoved


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~FR~

Just a quick note to acknowledge the many thoughtful contributions to the discussion. Not all of them required a response, and I wouldn't want anyone to think they weren't read/appreciated.

Thank you.

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RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 5:23:19 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BLoved

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

ORIGINAL: BLoved
Canada is a multi-cultural society that takes pride in its diversity. We don't expect people to divest themselves of their cultural heritage. We encourage them to celebrate it.


Explain that to the Québécois.


The seperatistes are a minority within Quebec as well as Canada.

Note they have yet to get a majority on any of the referendums that have been held.


So you claim to be an expert on Québec Seperatists now to? Oh my... speak about what you know, ok?

- LA


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RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 6:13:50 AM   
BLoved


Posts: 642
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
quote:

ORIGINAL: BLoved
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

ORIGINAL: BLoved
Canada is a multi-cultural society that takes pride in its diversity. We don't expect people to divest themselves of their cultural heritage. We encourage them to celebrate it.


Explain that to the Québécois.

The seperatistes are a minority within Quebec as well as Canada.

Note they have yet to get a majority on any of the referendums that have been held.


So you claim to be an expert on Québec Seperatists now to? Oh my... speak about what you know, ok?

- LA


I lived in Quebec before the FLQ crisis. I've followed the development of seperatism up until the passing of my wife, after which I lost interest in most everything.

I'm quite sure I'd have heard of a referendum result favouring seperatism.

_____________________________

When your bdsm paradigm makes love essential, expect some flack from those for whom love is anathema.

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Profile   Post #: 123
RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 7:20:27 AM   
BLoved


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
So you claim to be an expert on Québec Seperatists now to? Oh my... speak about what you know, ok?


Having given this more thought ...

I was quite young when my parent's business had gone bankrupt. We had to move around a lot as it was difficult for dad to find work.

We moved to N.D.G. (Randall, I think) which is where I started school. I recall it rained the day I sold apples for the cub scouts, my first kiss, my brother accidently setting fire to a field, a homeless man sitting at the top of the stairs eating a bowl of soup he'd begged from my mother. My dad was working again and it wasn't long before we moved to Laval West.

Laval was a little town just downstream from the Lachine rapids. Learned to swim there, how to build a basement, how to hunt earthworms for fishing, how to fish.

My very first "girlfriend" lived there, Barbara. Used to carry her books and hold her hand as we walked to and from school.

We had passes to visit Expo '67, which we did several times. I got lost for several hours on one of those visits. Went exploring on my own at the age of ten. It was cool, but I was glad to see dad.

It was the following september that dad hit the back of a maintenance truck stopped at the side of the road on the autoroute. I'm told the truck was improperly lit, but it was late at night and dad might have fallen asleep.

These were the days before most people used seatbelts. I know he didn't. He lingered a couple of weeks, and then he passed away. My grandfather, my mother's father, had been living with us for a couple of years. He passed away a month later.

Mom didn't speak french, and had a brother in Toronto, so she moved us.

So I've always had an interest and concern for Quebec. Everyone was concerned during the FLQ crisis. Terrorism in Canada? Impossible!

And Trudeau ... we owe so much to that man for who we are as a nation. Passes the War Measures Act and all sorts of people are rounded up.

Having lived through it, I don't think there were many who took their eyes off Quebec after that.

And along comes the PQ. I can't think of another country where a provincial government says they want to seperate, and will hold a referendum for that purpose, and the federal government did nothing to stop it.

I have always been proud of the Canadian sense of tolerance for differences in others, that we never acted against this principle of democracy, that people have the right to self-determination.

And while I disagreed with the goals of the PQ, I respected their decision to do this through the ballot box.

Right up until the language rights issue.

Banning all languages on signs but french (including english, one of the two official national languages, french being the other) was wrong. It demonstrated a willingness to persecute Quebecois minority rights and they knew it. That is why thet attached the "Notwithstanding Clause" to it. The first and only government in Canada to deliberately prevent the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to be applied.

I'd heard that the language laws had been subsequently modified. I do not know the details. Between wife and child life got busy and I lost interest in the outside world.

I notice you were born after the FLQ crisis. You wouldn't recall DeGaulle's "Vive le Quebec Libre!" and the shockwave it sent through Canada. You wouldn't have experienced our pride as a nation during our centennial year.

We have changed quite a bit since then.




_____________________________

When your bdsm paradigm makes love essential, expect some flack from those for whom love is anathema.

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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 7:31:00 AM   
mnottertail


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French African Americans....................right there in quebec.

Sorta makes your eyes tear up a little. Who knew?

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RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 2:26:50 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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FR

There are two brothers from Spain, one moves to Costa Rico the other (brother 2) moves to Alabama with their wives. Brother One becomes quite wealthy, Brother Two provides an nice but modest middle class living for his family , become citizens of their countries, raise families, they share a very Spanish surname.

Two of brother 1's sons immigrate to the United States. These sons are considered Hispanic minorities as will be their children; they have the ability take advantage of minority set asides, affirmative action and minority scholarships. It doesn't matter that their father is a multi millionaire or that they are as white and as European as one can get, in the United States they are Hispanics.

Not so for brother 2's sons. They are white and have no ability or access to the minority status their cousins have. There are 1000’s of such cases.

There is a similar issue for the 1000’s of people’s who were Mexican Citizens of Spanish and Mixed Spanish ancestry on March 9th 1848 and American Citizens on March 10th 1848. They are considered white, not Hispanic.

A South American born person who comes to the United States is considered Hispanic minorities even if wholly Italian, German, Irish, French…etc.

However, Europeans who immigrated to Africa are not entitled to call themselves African-Americans, even thouse who family roots go back to Africa over 100's of years.

This is what is wrong with minority check boxes.

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RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 2:30:41 PM   
mnottertail


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we don't have a disagreement here, fats, however; if I had a cavil it would be thats whats wrong with majority checkboxes too, shouldnt be any min max to it, folks are not volume knobs

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 2:33:15 PM   
juliaoceania


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And then there are all those people who are technically allowed to avail themselves of programs for Native Americans (or Indians as they are sometimes called) and yet they do not do it because they are culturally White... such is the case with me..... There are 1000s of cases of people who will abuse anything given the chance... we do not throw out the baby with the bathwater 

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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 3:44:54 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BLoved

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
So you claim to be an expert on Québec Seperatists now to? Oh my... speak about what you know, ok?


I lived in Quebec before the FLQ crisis. I've followed the development of seperatism up until the passing of my wife, after which I lost interest in most everything.

I'm quite sure I'd have heard of a referendum result favouring seperatism.

True. But the issue isn't that black and white. The fact that they didn't get a majority vote doesn't mean that it is not the majority opinion. I know people think that things are that black and white, but it's not. Many sit on a fence.

Also the fact that it has been an issue since 1775 and a very hot issue for the last 40 is testimony of how complicated this issue is.

quote:


Having given this more thought ...


Alright...

quote:

I was quite young when my parent's business had gone bankrupt. We had to move around a lot as it was difficult for dad to find work.

We moved to N.D.G. (Randall, I think) which is where I started school. I recall it rained the day I sold apples for the cub scouts, my first kiss, my brother accidently setting fire to a field, a homeless man sitting at the top of the stairs eating a bowl of soup he'd begged from my mother. My dad was working again and it wasn't long before we moved to Laval West.

Laval was a little town just downstream from the Lachine rapids. Learned to swim there, how to build a basement, how to hunt earthworms for fishing, how to fish.


Lachine Rapids are on the south shore of Montreal. Laval is on the North Shore. You might want to revisit a map of Montreal.

quote:

So I've always had an interest and concern for Quebec. Everyone was concerned during the FLQ crisis. Terrorism in Canada? Impossible!


I cut a little of reminiscing out in order to get to the heart of the issue (which is off topic, but you brought your own thread this far off topic so... )

You are right. The Front de Libération du Québec (FLQ) detonated bombs over a period of 7 years which culminated in the kidnapping and murder of Pierre Laporte Vice-Premier and Minister of Labour of the province of Quebec in October 1970, which we refer to now as the October Crisis.

quote:

And Trudeau ... we owe so much to that man for who we are as a nation. Passes the War Measures Act and all sorts of people are rounded up.


On this point, we will agree. Very few world leaders knew how to run a country with conviction and charisma glove like Trudeau. He was no bullshit.

quote:

Having lived through it, I don't think there were many who took their eyes off Quebec after that.


Actually so much has happened in the last 40 years that people really don't talk about it anymore. Probably most people don't know about this.

quote:

And along comes the PQ. I can't think of another country where a provincial government says they want to seperate, and will hold a referendum for that purpose, and the federal government did nothing to stop it.

Really? You think the federal government did nothing to stop it? You really hold that opinion? Just because they didn't come out with guns doesn't mean they did nothing.

quote:

I have always been proud of the Canadian sense of tolerance for differences in others, that we never acted against this principle of democracy, that people have the right to self-determination.


True. Though I think that we should be careful about patting each other on the back so much as I've seen quite a bit of intolerance.

quote:

And while I disagreed with the goals of the PQ, I respected their decision to do this through the ballot box.


Strategically, they did things all wrong.

quote:

Right up until the language rights issue.


While I don't agree with what they did to deal with the language issue, I agree that something had to be done.

quote:

Banning all languages on signs but french (including english, one of the two official national languages, french being the other) was wrong. It demonstrated a willingness to persecute Quebecois minority rights and they knew it. That is why thet attached the "Notwithstanding Clause" to it. The first and only government in Canada to deliberately prevent the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to be applied.

I'd heard that the language laws had been subsequently modified. I do not know the details. Between wife and child life got busy and I lost interest in the outside world.


Canada is bilingual. Every Canadian province and territory is unilingual English except for Quebec which is unilingual French and New Brunswick which is bilingual.

There is no banning of English signs. There was a law that said that signs could not be only in English. It also said that the French portion of the sign has to be larger.

quote:

I notice you were born after the FLQ crisis.

It isn't the FLQ crisis but the October Crisis and yes, I was born 2 years later. Part of my extended family were members of the FLQ so I think I know a thing or two.

quote:

You wouldn't recall DeGaulle's "Vive le Quebec Libre!" and the shockwave it sent through Canada. You wouldn't have experienced our pride as a nation during our centennial year.


Ok, so I wasn't around when happened, no. I was born 5 year llater. But it impacted almost every day of my life. And I've seen the speech over and over again, studied it's impact in history books, debated with others about what right a foreigner had to come in and speak about our faith...

Oh yeah, you're right. It has no impact on me at all.

quote:

We have changed quite a bit since then.


Some things have changed and some things have remained exactly the same.

While I am not in agreeement with a lot of the decisions that the PQ made, I am grateful that someone stepped up to the plate and did something about trying to preserve my language and heritage. I just wish they would have made better decisions and would have created less animosity in this country by doing so.

- LA




< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 2/24/2010 3:49:32 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 3:54:43 PM   
Wolf2Bear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BLoved

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear
quote:

ORIGINAL: BLoved
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Maybe he was talking about CM, he never said

From the OP:
quote:


I'm curious ...

When did everyone of African ancestry become an "American"?

When selecting "Ethnicity" here, a person of African ancestry must select either "African American" or "Other".

If you look at the "Edit Profile" page of your profile you will see at the top several "Required Fields".

One of those is "Ethnicity".

So when a person is required to check what ethnicity they are...when does it become moot point if a person is of mixed heritage yet is a second, third or sixth generation American or Canadian?

So if a person is part French, part Irish, part Ukrainian, part Native and is 5th generation Canadian, wouldn't it be redundant to obsess about the specifics of their ethnicity when checking off Caucasian would suffice? I mean this person could by some definition check off European yet that would be misleading as most would automatically assume that person wasn't born in Canada or the US.

Being politically correct is fine, it's when it becomes too redundant that it becomes idiotic and quite asinine.


Bear, not everyone of African ancestry is American. So why must they all select "African American"?


Frankly people can choose whatever they feel that suits them. Personally if there was an option I'd probably check the box for white trash. It still boils down to the fact that I have no control over the color of my skin and I have to choose accordingly.


_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

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RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 3:56:00 PM   
Wolf2Bear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: BLoved
Canada is a multi-cultural society that takes pride in its diversity. We don't expect people to divest themselves of their cultural heritage. We encourage them to celebrate it.


Explain that to the Québécois.




ROFLMFAO 

Exactly!


_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 4:19:31 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: BLoved
Canada is a multi-cultural society that takes pride in its diversity. We don't expect people to divest themselves of their cultural heritage. We encourage them to celebrate it.


Explain that to the Québécois.




ROFLMFAO 

Exactly!



Bear! Don't make me hurt you... ;-)

- LA


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RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 4:35:31 PM   
Wolf2Bear


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Would I be hurt in both official languages?  ~snickers~

_____________________________

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Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 4:45:42 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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Yes but legally you would have to be hurt twice as much in French

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RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 4:46:01 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

Would I be hurt in both official languages?  ~snickers~


Oui! And the French part of me is très, très vicieuse!!

- LA


_____________________________

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RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 4:47:05 PM   
Wolf2Bear


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Guess I better renew my passport before heading there.  oui?

_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 4:49:00 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
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Make sure to get all your shots too 

_____________________________

And there's a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make ev'rything alright ~ Black Crows

Team Troll Trollop
Member: Cocksuckers For World Peace
Charter member: Lance's Fag Hags
Member: Subbie Mafia
Member: Hibbie's Hotties

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RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 4:52:45 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

Guess I better renew my passport before heading there.  oui?


Have you never been to Québec?

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 138
RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 4:53:47 PM   
Wolf2Bear


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Ce sera tellement cool! Je reçois Voyage dans un autre pays dans mon pays ... je vous remercie.

_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to zephyroftheNorth)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: "African American"? - 2/24/2010 4:56:44 PM   
Wolf2Bear


Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear

Guess I better renew my passport before heading there.  oui?


Have you never been to Québec?

- LA



Does Témiscamingue count?


_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 140
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