RE: Feminine wiles or dominance? (Full Version)

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LaTigresse -> RE: Feminine wiles or dominance? (2/22/2010 1:28:01 PM)

Do not forget that Cleopatra betrayed her brother and sister, forced her sister into exile and then, when that did not prove sufficient... had them both killed to guarantee her throne.




SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Feminine wiles or dominance? (2/22/2010 1:48:11 PM)

And your point is...?
 
Flippant retorts aside, that was the way of the world and of politics at the time.  Cleopatra was the last of her line, and the only legitimate heir to her throne.  Her brother and sister were half-siblings whose supporters were trying to usurp Cleopatra's throne and put the Pharoah's illegitimate children in power instead.  They would have assassinated Cleopatra if she hadn't been ruthless enough to do it first.  I don't condemn Cleopatra for doing what she had to do to stay in power.  I would have done the same thing in her position.
 
*Edited for typos




LaTigresse -> RE: Feminine wiles or dominance? (2/22/2010 1:56:09 PM)

My point is that I do not see her as a role model.Certainly not the type of woman I would wish to be.




SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Feminine wiles or dominance? (2/22/2010 2:03:37 PM)

That's your prerogative.  I disagree.  That is mine.




LaTigresse -> RE: Feminine wiles or dominance? (2/22/2010 2:09:37 PM)

By all means.




SaharahEve -> RE: Feminine wiles or dominance? (2/22/2010 3:47:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan



Do I view female dominance as different?  Yes.  However, Different = Good, in my opinion.  Men and women are different and, though we are equally capable of dominance, we are not required to employ the same devices to achieve it.  In many ways, I view female dominance, including the use of "feminine wiles," as superior because it is often more subtle and, therefore, more effective.  This is not to say that I believe in female supremacy, only that I recognize the superiority of subtlty over brute force in some circumstances.
 
Do I use my own feminine wiles on subs?  Absolutely!  I'll use any tool that will accomplish my goals, whether it's neurolinguistic programming or dressing up in a corset and 5" heels.  If it gets the reaction I want, when I want, then it's valid.  For me, feminine wiles are any tactics a woman is able to employ for her own benefit.  They aren't limited to flaunting her tits and ass. 
 
Does this attitude carry over to my life outside the bedroom?  You bet.  My kink is control and want to be in control everywhere, not just the bedchamber.  Although there is a momentary control involved in manipulating a person in a particular situation, that isn't the sort of control I'm talking about here.  I define control, as it relates to dominance, as a lasting effect on a person's psyche -- when you're picking up around your house and find yourself putting things away in places I've instructed you to put them in mine, or when you see someone on the street who resembles me and hurry after her, hoping I'll turn and smile at you. 
 
Do I feel the expectations for female dominance are different?  Sometimes, depending on who you ask.  I bolded some key phrases in the OP that illustrate the paradox.  Even the OP seems to equate feminine wiles with a manipulative, grasping sort of control.  If the emphasized phrases are read together, they can easily apply to either male or female dominance. 
 
When I think of a woman using feminine wiles as part of her leadership, I think of Cleopatra, who protected her country from invasion and secured the power of her throne for years by becoming the mistress first of Caesar and then Marc Antony.  Was she manipulative?  Probably.  Politics are all about manipulation and men are just as manipulative as women in this arena.  Was Cleopatra passive-aggressive?  Possibly.  However, once again, men are just as passive-aggressive as women, and whether or not the man is considered dominant has little to do with this. 
 
In any case, I have no qualms about using my feminine wiles if it means putting myself in the same category as one of the greatest queens of all time.  I don't have to deny my femininity, like Hatshepsut, or make myself a virgin queen, like Elizabeth I, to rule. 



I agree with you on all counts. While I do believe in the power of physical beauty, I don't underestimate the power of charm. Anyone can fall for a physically beautiful person, but familiarity and time dulls the senses (unless you have an artist's heart). Physical beauty has its use undoubtedly, but it's only half the spell. A beguiling personality seals the deal.




LadyAngelika -> RE: Feminine wiles or dominance? (2/22/2010 4:50:17 PM)

quote:

*My questions for the women..... Do you view female dominance different from male dominance? Do you use feminine wiles to achieve goals within your relationship with your sub? How do you define these wiles? Do you feel the expectations attached to female dominantion are different from male domination and if so, how?


I don't know what it's like to be a male dominant. I can guess, but I don't inherently know. I also don't know what it's like to be other female dominants. Again, I can guess. Everyone's style of dominance is different.

My Dominant mentor was a man. He influenced my style of dominance a lot as I was trying to figure out who I was. What he taught me was not related to gender. Essentially, he really focusssed on the importance of being assertive rather than passive-agressive and being dominant rather than domineering. He was also intensely sensual in his sadism which I loved and picked up on.

Now as far as using my feminine wiles, this is something different to me. I am very aware of what I can get with a smile, a wink, a wiggle. This I learned quite young. When I'm feeling that my sexual and sadistic senses are heightened, they really come out. In this respect, it is a trap I'm setting. I want to find a pray and play ;-) Of course, this can manifest itself within a relationship as well.

But I will not focus my dominance around these feminine wiles. My natural leadership abilities are much more effective to properly lead my relationship.

- LA




undergroundsea -> RE: Feminine wiles or dominance? (2/22/2010 5:19:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
Not in a manipulative or passive-aggressive manner, but with determination and integrity tempered with grace and compassion.

All that being said.....the comment made on the other thread by the OP that he thought "passive-aggressive and manipulative are definitely more towards the "controlling" side, and hence dominant."

*Questions for the men/male subs.....Do you agree with the statement I quoted above from the OP of the other thread I linked to in regards to passive-aggressive/manipulative behavior being controlling and therefore dominant?  Do you see the use of feminine wiles by a woman to be dominant? 


Passive-aggressive behavior or manipulation might help attain influence over another. However, it is not what I consider a healthy approach to dominance and I would be turned off by such behavior. My submission is brought about varying amounts of social attraction, admiration, and fondness.

Cheers,

Sea




dreamerdreaming -> RE: Feminine wiles or dominance? (2/22/2010 5:20:22 PM)

I don't see myself as into dominance, and I don't care about fitting other people's expectations in this realm.

I'm into control, and ownership.

I'm not into any kind of female supremacy, and the idea of people ascribing certain characteristics to me based on my gender is a complete turn-off to me. I want to be known for my thoughts, ideas and deeds. Not my gender.




CarrieO -> RE: Feminine wiles or dominance? (2/22/2010 6:19:19 PM)

~Fast Reply~

Reading all the responses made me think of something I like to say to my mom when there's nothing else to say....Isn't it wonderful that we're all so different!  Many I can relate to...some I can't and that's okay.  Like dreamerdreaming said... " I don't care about fitting other people's expectations..."
 
In the end....there's no right or wrong answers...only opinions.  Thanks for sharing.




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