RE: Detecting Liars? (Full Version)

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lucylucy -> RE: Detecting Liars? (2/23/2010 7:29:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginallyFromLA
If you are calling to check up on him you may as well end it there because now it's not fun anymore.

I'll second that sentiment. I've been cheated on three times (that I know of). I never suspected a thing in any of the cases, found out completely by accident all three times, and was utterly devastated all three times. But I would take that devastation any day over the paranoia of brooding over possibly unfounded suspicions, hiring detectives, making phone calls, spying, etc. I'd rather have a relationship end because of cheating than end because I was paranoid about cheating.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Ask for the first meet to be at a local BDSM club. Good chance if he's a fraud that he'll refuse to meet where he's known.

This may be good advice for people involved in the local scene, but it's not foolproof. I believe DarkSteven's point is that someone who's been seen at a club with one woman won't show up with another woman, but there's also the implication that anyone who's "real" will be known at the local club. I'm real and I ain't known. My Owner is real and he ain't known.




LaTigresse -> RE: Detecting Liars? (2/23/2010 7:32:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

There are also people of good charachter who have simply burned out on the political bs in a particular area.
Not everyone has a desire to be "out"


And some people of good character have things in their life going on at night (work, school, partner, children, hobby, etc) that take priority for them over going to munches and play parties.


Definitely.

It's no different than a vanilla relationship in this regard. If someone wanted me to go to the local bar, I would probably refuse. Not because there are a string of ex's there (there isn't), but because the very last thing I want to do on any given night, is to go to the local bar.




juliaoceania -> RE: Detecting Liars? (2/23/2010 7:33:43 AM)

quote:

Errrrm ... I read the OP and took it to mean she's seeking, and not for someone she's already involved to that degree with.


You asked me a personal question. I did not know it was still supposed to be pointed at the OP

I
quote:

wasn't talking toothbrushes, I meant tampons, pant liners etc.

And ... I'm not buying a fresh box every time just to appease the sort of nutter that doesn't get to know me better in less stalkie ways.

Pirate


So... lets see... you are having sex with someone and involved with them and they stay the night with you... they go into your medicine cabinet to use your toothpaste, and they discover that you have a bunch of makeup in there. Because they have eyes in their head they are a stalker and a nutter, I wouldn't want to be fucking someone that was so secretive about where they put their toothbrushes, just me etc... I would also wonder about a bachelor that stored tampax. I have never been involved with a man that was this thoughtful... Kudos! I prefer to bring my own female stuff, I am weird like that.

Personally, this is just me mind you, but personally, if I had shown the propensity to get involved with married men or taken men, you know, the cheating variety, and was trying to prevent that from happening to me again.. well yeah, I might start expecting more FYI to put me at ease with a man. If that bothered them, they could go elsewhere. I have never had this happen to me, but she asked what I would do if it had, and I answered.




GraciousLady -> RE: Detecting Liars? (2/23/2010 7:57:29 AM)

Apply all the old rules and use common sense here.

Don't be intimate to quickly.
Practice safe sex/play until you are in a committed relationship.
Commited relationships take time. Never assume you are in one until you know every aspect of a person and his/her life and they know yours. That means family, friends, financial and other personal aspects. Silly as it sounds, if you have never changed sheets, cooked or had toothbrushes in each others bathroom, know and talk to each others Mom's, been to a family get together or done mundane things such as that in each others lives you are likely not really in a commited relationship.

These things will not assure anything but it sure will cut down on the BS.




Fitznicely -> RE: Detecting Liars? (2/23/2010 7:58:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissBeautiful2U
The issue is more with long-term relationships... it was more than clear that I expected his faithfulness. 


Haven't read a lot of this, so apologies if I'm repeating:

I'm on the other side of this. My girl has trust issues from 16 years ago, from the relationship two before me. We're working through it, but it's slow going. Two steps forward, five back. But we'll get there.

I have two LTR's behind me in which I've been completely faithful, and in which I've been cheated on both times. That's no failing on my part, but theirs. They decided the grass was greener.

Both times, they very soon found out it wasn't actually greener and I made sure they knew they had to absolutely win my trust again. Not an easy job for them. Both times, it took years.

(Vanilla relationships, I might add: If a slave of mine was stupid enough to do it, out come restraints and chilli)

Two points to ponder:

1. I'm not him. He fucked around on you. The next guy needn't. You begin the relationship expecting him to cheat, or worse, treating him like your ex, with all the mistrust that entails, and you risk a fait accompli

2. What's done is done. The past isn't somewhere to live, it's for learning from and moving on. If it's over and they're willing to make amends, they must prove themselves or move on. Either way, you win. They do it again, they're gone. Simple.




LadyPact -> RE: Detecting Liars? (2/23/2010 8:09:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: graceadieu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smutmonger

There are also people of good charachter who have simply burned out on the political bs in a particular area.
Not everyone has a desire to be "out"


And some people of good character have things in their life going on at night (work, school, partner, children, hobby, etc) that take priority for them over going to munches and play parties.


Definitely.

It's no different than a vanilla relationship in this regard. If someone wanted me to go to the local bar, I would probably refuse. Not because there are a string of ex's there (there isn't), but because the very last thing I want to do on any given night, is to go to the local bar.


Just to put this into perspective.....

Over the course of this thread and others that have been on the subject, the first one that pops up is to meet the other person's friends and/or family.  It's a great suggestion, but how exactly do you go about that?  Schedule a family reunion out of the blue or maybe you're just lucky enough to meet them the month of the yearly company picnic?  Maybe people can time all of their relationships during those times of year, such as Christmas or Fourth of July, so that all of these things can be sorted out according to when gatherings are most likely to happen.

Granted, not everyone is into public BDSM.  No quarrels with that.  At the same time, what do you suggest instead?

The munch idea wouldn't work for everyone, but I've absolutely brought people with Me to a munch group and at some point in the evening invited them to ask anyone there any questions that they might have regarding Me of the others.  (I've brought people to clubs and told them to please do the same thing.)  If nothing else, it's a scheduled event that happens weekly or monthly where you know a group of folks is going to sit down to dinner.




CalifChick -> RE: Detecting Liars? (2/23/2010 9:50:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

He gets off on having a secret lover. Even if he was in love with one of you he would still be doing it because thats his high.
He can lie with precision and will have the ability to make you feel guilty if you ever doubt his lies.
He feels confident that he always has back up if his relationship with you fails.
He enjoys a complicated lifestyle and looks on it as a challenge.
If he gets caught he will show sorrow and be full of self pity but the only thing he's sorry about is being caught
If he uses the internet he probably has a dozen women he's grooming.



This describes my ex-husband to a "T".  Exactly.  When his last girlfriend called me in tears, one of the things I said to her was, "You know there are others.  There are ALWAYS others.  He will always have a backup plan."

Cali




LaTigresse -> RE: Detecting Liars? (2/23/2010 11:14:40 AM)

LadyPact, how did you meet, and get to know MisterP?

I bring this up because to me, whether or not a person is lying about something relationship oriented is not a BDSM or power exchange relationship issue. It is simply a relationship issue.

When my daughter decided she was serious about her, now husband, I didn't suggest she do a background check, contact his ex's, or any of the other paranoid sounding things I've read on this site. We didn't have some paranoid discussion about whether or not he was lying about who he was, what he was hiding, or any of that. We talked about whether or not she was happy. If she was ready for the sort of commitment they were talking about. A multitude of things that most people I know think about. No one I know, has hired a private investigator to check on a prospective SO.

You meet, spend time together, you talk, you do stuff together, learn one another's interests, fears, the good the bad and sooner or later you spend time with mutual friends and family. You learn about one another. You decide if you want to spend more time with one another.

In thinking a bit more about this I had a thought. It is almost as though we(general) are beginning to try to guarantee a compatible relationship before we even begin. Rather than let something either bloom or die organically, we want to be certain AND to protect ourselves from being hurt.

If I had been able to see into the future of my past relationships, the hurt they caused, I would have never began them. Wooohooo, no hurt!!! BUT, I would not have my children and now grandchildren. I would not have been introduced to BDSM and the concept of a M/s relationship. I would not have gotten to know any of you. I would not be the woman I am today and I rather love the woman I am today.

I am glad for the bad relationships and the hurt, because they were a small small price to pay for what I have now.




juliaoceania -> RE: Detecting Liars? (2/23/2010 11:19:34 AM)

quote:

You meet, spend time together, you talk, you do stuff together, learn one another's interests, fears, the good the bad and sooner or later you spend time with mutual friends and family. You learn about one another. You decide if you want to spend more time with one another.


That approach always worked for me.... but then I am old fashioned like that I guess...




LadyPact -> RE: Detecting Liars? (2/23/2010 12:15:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

LadyPact, how did you meet, and get to know MisterP?

I bring this up because to me, whether or not a person is lying about something relationship oriented is not a BDSM or power exchange relationship issue. It is simply a relationship issue.

When my daughter decided she was serious about her, now husband, I didn't suggest she do a background check, contact his ex's, or any of the other paranoid sounding things I've read on this site. We didn't have some paranoid discussion about whether or not he was lying about who he was, what he was hiding, or any of that. We talked about whether or not she was happy. If she was ready for the sort of commitment they were talking about. A multitude of things that most people I know think about. No one I know, has hired a private investigator to check on a prospective SO.

You meet, spend time together, you talk, you do stuff together, learn one another's interests, fears, the good the bad and sooner or later you spend time with mutual friends and family. You learn about one another. You decide if you want to spend more time with one another.

In thinking a bit more about this I had a thought. It is almost as though we(general) are beginning to try to guarantee a compatible relationship before we even begin. Rather than let something either bloom or die organically, we want to be certain AND to protect ourselves from being hurt.

If I had been able to see into the future of my past relationships, the hurt they caused, I would have never began them. Wooohooo, no hurt!!! BUT, I would not have my children and now grandchildren. I would not have been introduced to BDSM and the concept of a M/s relationship. I would not have gotten to know any of you. I would not be the woman I am today and I rather love the woman I am today.

I am glad for the bad relationships and the hurt, because they were a small small price to pay for what I have now.


It's funny you should ask, LaT.  I actually met him through a non kinky organization that I participated in that met weekly.  The first time I ever saw him, he was talking to a friend of Mine and they were talking about ex-girlfriends.  (It was one of those horror story things that males do.)  The first thing I ever said to him was, "you guys are going to the wrong places to meet women."

(I know you appreciate the humor/irony in that.)

I think we're looking at it in two different ways.  I'm not especially responding to the problem of the OP getting hurt.  That stuff happens even when everybody has been straight and honest from the beginning and sometimes things don't work out.  I'm looking at it from the angle that the OP is attempting to avoid people who are being dishonest with her from the get go.

If we're talking about meeting people through the net, rather than the old fashioned face to face method, I tend to think that it's easier for folks to be dishonest because the chances are higher that they don't know any of the other people that the other person knows.  That's where it becomes easier to be dishonest.




TreasureKY -> RE: Detecting Liars? (2/23/2010 4:20:09 PM)

My general advice is to listen to your “inner voice” or “gut feeling”.  If something doesn’t feel right or make sense, there’s a real reason.  Ask for clarification... ask the same question again at another time but in a different way... look for inconsistencies... and follow your instinct. 

Two plus two should equal four.




Aneirin -> RE: Detecting Liars? (2/24/2010 3:19:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

For whatever crazy reason, I have never worried about someone cheating. Quite honestly if I am involved with a person and they do, it is their problem, not mine.

I do not do any sort of background check on people, I do not snoop, I do not give them the 3rd degree about the other people in their life. I quite simply listen to my instincts. I do not expect that people will cheat......yet........I expect them to be human and have human weaknesses. I find that if I allow them to be human, they will almost always, willingly, show me their weaknesses. I expect them to be them, no pedestal, no perfect 'the one', just them.

If I do the above, I am never disillusioned, or disappointed.

If a person is the type to cheat, chances would be they would be attempting to cheat on someone, with me, when they met me. If I do not easily give them what they want, chances are they will move along to an easier target. Much easier. If they are serious, and interested in getting to know me, making the effort to spend time with me, chances are they are sincere and will be the type of person I want in my life.

I think a lot of these problems would be solved if people were not in such a rush. People want instant gratification, instant relationships. They act as though there is some big clock of doom ticking somewhere. It's silliness and causes more trouble than not. I prefer to take my time, get to know people, let things unfold organically.


Yeah, I tend to agree with you here, for I have perceived the big clock of doom with some people and for that reason I back off, as I cannot move that fast, for me also I prefer natural development.

Thinking back to when I was married, I think, quite possibly, my then wife had an affair, not because I suspected something, but because she was at pains one day, seemingly scared if I should see of get to hear about some man she knows, who gives her a lift to work in the morning, an old flame from the past. Her character was so out of order it was strange, but I just dismissed it and said I trusted her, so why would I suspect, but the real reason for saying this was I wasn't bothered if she had, I do not see it as a slight on me at all and I am prepared to allow people to be human. I thought then as I do now, perhaps I am a bit polyamouros in my beliefs, I haven't engaged in polyamoury, but I find it very human in others and so have no problems with it.

I think perhaps what we are as humans has been trained by external forces from what we were to something maybe unnatural for our existence the notion  of  find one mate and stick with that mate until the end of your days, various religious persuasions have stated this and people in the past followed, but is it right, granted it is right for some, but is it naturally right for all ? Myself, I think not, as relationships with different people be that purely platonic or more intimate teaches us, and we develop with experience.

Perhaps if polyamoury was more accepted, there would be less need for lying and deceit and if someone is seeking a mate, they really have to be honest with themselves, as to what they want, are they looking for a ,til death do us part situation or are they looking for anything other, as to me, I find also that people are in so much of a rush to adhere to a supposed ideal of find a mate, build a nest, have a family, grow old watching the offspring take your place, is that life, if it is, it does not strike me with much interest.

I wonders, could it be because of the loss of grip by the once powerful religions, it is as if we have been cast out to find and fend for ourselves, devoid of religious rules, we are learning to be human and are in fact infants at that, so we don't know what we really want in life, but feel we have to tow a past line which has become ingrained in our conscience by societal expectation.

All I know, is I do not need to possess someone and if someone seeks to be possessed, I have difficulty with that. I can love, live, nourish, shelter, protect, help and whatever, but not possess as I believe everyone is themselves before anything else, they are free to please themselves.




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