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RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 9:09:06 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Status: offline 		But if the guy himself said all he needed was some over-the-counter painkillers and a place to lie down, how bad could it have been? Maybe the ER staff assessed his pan level and determined it was something that could wait. If he'd been bleeding, experiencing chest pains, had a head injury or any other unstable condition, that'd be different, but pain from a hernia is not something that needs to be treated immediately when you have other people in the ER with more serious conditions.

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RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 9:17:04 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Either I'm reading the follow up wrong or other people are. The follow up said, No he got pissed off ripped off the armband and told them flat out fuck it....he said at least I get aspirin and a place to lay down at home.  <I thought that was a good shot! personally LOL

No he did not make an appointment he drank pretty close to a pint of whiskey and took some ibuprohen."

Seems to Me that the alcohol came in as a pain remedy after no resolution to the pain could be found at the VA.



yes you read it correctly the others did not. that and his pain level was substantially higher sitting up in a chair than l,aying down,  They had places he could lay down but would not let him.





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 2/23/2010 9:19:53 AM >

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RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 9:19:03 AM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PapaBlue

If your friend needs help from the VA, he needs to be smart and persistent.  I understand that your post had to do with extrapolating what "government health care" (whatever that might be) will be like based on a single experience, but I'm not really interested in that issue.


I am sorry to hear that experience and out of my own experience I do know how frustrating it can be not to be treated properly (in my case it was not in a hospital but at a normal surgery where the GP did not get it in how much pain I ended up every single night as he did not get it that fibromyalgia exist and so I do know how the relief feels when at the end, someone DOES get it).

However, I just want to make you aware as well, that this has nothing to do with private or government health care.

In Germany, where I am from, we have quite a good system in place, everyone is insured and since I am living in the UK (since 5 years) I can tell you I do miss it big time....therefore universal health care CAN WORK WELL, if it is done properly.

Here is a link where even americans have their say about it and compare it to their system:

http://www.amiexpat.com/2009/08/18/health-care-in-germany/

Over here in the UK, it is a lil bit different...again, everyone is included but the service provided is provided on a much lower level then I am used to. With lower level I mean that I cant choose which particular doctor I want to see when I get referred (as I could do back home), that I have to wait up to 6 months for a simple referal (where at home, if I don't get an appointment binnen 1-2 weeks at the specialist I desire I just check out if one of his or her colleagues has an appointment available earlier) and also whereas over here you hear a lot in the news that it depends in which area you are living if you get certain cancer drugs or not, we have very good cancer care back home and I am damn glad that my grandmother had treatment back home.

And regards to that even the american actress Farrah Fawcett came to Germany to get treatment which she could not get in america...so even she, who very likely had enough money available to afford whatever she desired in america, did despite all her money not receive it over there as that treatment is not approved in america.

http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20090515/farrah-fawcetts-german-cancer-care

In her journey through her last few months (which I did see coincidentially a little bit over here when it came on TV) she said that she does not understand why treatment which gave her 18 months longer to live and is available in other countries, is not available in her country...

So seriously, it is not about private or universal healthcare...it is about how it is implemented as back home it is implemented very well, but despite that rooms are still full at times and people have to wait for long times as thats how it is at the A&E Departments...or at least often.











< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 2/23/2010 9:21:30 AM >

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RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 9:26:18 AM   
Dominatist


Posts: 87
Joined: 7/18/2007
Status: offline 		I was in an accident in Md. Then I was taken by ambulance to Prince William hosp. I was not an emergency case as had what felt like a broken collar bone and my hands were cut up.

I waited more than 4 hours in this nearest 'emergency care ' and I asked my folks later why I had to wait all those hours when they weren't busy at all. The hosp. had to make sure I had the money !! They didn't even ask me, they called next of kin.

That's going to happen at a 'market' or private hosp. and not at the VA. My uncle uses the VA and he loves it.

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RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 9:38:59 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne


He said all he needed was some pain killers and some place to lay down.





Then he was probably the least important case in the entire emergency room. So what's your fucking point again? He should have still been seen before people who were in serious trouble, because he was your buddy? Hell, if he's a friend of yours, he's probably a drunken, obnoxious, pain-in-the-ass moron who can't communicate above the level of an 8-year old child or answer any of the staff's questions without insulting them, so they probably never did get a coherent answer about what was wrong with him the first place.



Panda is right.

Why didn't you take your friend to "Jew Fest?" No one feels bad at "Jew Fest!"

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RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 10:06:58 AM   
InvisibleBlack


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Status: offline 		- FR -

I'm sorry to hear that your friend is in pain. I seriously suggest he seek professional medical attention rather than resort to ibuprofin and whiskey.

In the past decade I have been in the emergency room exactly twice. One I slipped while planing a door and cut my hand open badly enough that I was bleeding all over the floor. The second time my then-girlfriend walked into the room, said "I don't feel good" and promptly passed out and I carried her down to the car and drove her to the hospital (it turned out she had a stomach flu - she ended up on an IV for three days).

In both cases, the patient (I in one and my then-girlfriend in the other) were immediately admitted and treated. There were others sitting around the waiting room in both instances - I assume they had injuries or illnesses that they regarded as emergencies as well.

Emergency rooms operate on a triage basis. If your friend is walking and talking and not visibly injured he's likely not a priority one case - even if he's in agonizing pain. This is why I don't go to the emergency room unless I have absolutely no other option. Unless they think you have an immediately life-threatening problem, the emergency room is going to make you wait.

He needs to go to a doctor. Find a clinic. Make an appointment with a VA physician. Get help.

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RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 11:09:21 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I never knew that. I had minor surgery in 79 and it wasn't service related. My ex roommate gets his testosterone shots from the VA and I am pretty sure that's not service related. When the VA removed his tattoo on his leg, they gave him a brand new wheel chair and a walker, because he was going to have to stay off his feet for a couple weeks. It was the third walker they had given him in a 2 year span. My other friend has been trying to get his back fixed for 6 years and the VA keeps blowing him off with one excuse after another. I guess a tattoo that gets infected once in a while, is a bigger priority than a bad back. But the VA did tell my one friend if the pain meds for his back don't help, they will help him start processing paperwork to go on disability. I guess they feel that would be cheaper than the surgery to fix the problem and allow him to work.


It depends on when you served. I served from 86 through 91 and without joining Tricare all I can get from the VA is service related care.




That's fucked up. But it doesn't surprise me a bit.


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RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 12:21:16 PM   
Brain


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Status: offline 		This anecdotal example isn't relevant because there are contrary anecdeotal examples, which means this requires a comprehensive analysis.  It just isn't true people will wait longer for healthcare with the public option.  The public option provides competition which forces insurance companies to provide cheaper rates, that's all, so stop trying to scare people.  

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 5:14:57 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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Status: offline 		I want to drink many beers with Panda

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RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 5:48:24 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

But if the guy himself said all he needed was some over-the-counter painkillers and a place to lie down, how bad could it have been? Maybe the ER staff assessed his pan level and determined it was something that could wait. If he'd been bleeding, experiencing chest pains, had a head injury or any other unstable condition, that'd be different, but pain from a hernia is not something that needs to be treated immediately when you have other people in the ER with more serious conditions.


Um you arent still angry with me are you?




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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 5:56:13 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

- FR -

I'm sorry to hear that your friend is in pain. I seriously suggest he seek professional medical attention rather than resort to ibuprofin and whiskey.

well he is a vet and that is what he was doing was seeking professional help at the VA Hospital.

In the past decade I have been in the emergency room exactly twice. One I slipped while planing a door and cut my hand open badly enough that I was bleeding all over the floor. The second time my then-girlfriend walked into the room, said "I don't feel good" and promptly passed out and I carried her down to the car and drove her to the hospital (it turned out she had a stomach flu - she ended up on an IV for three days).

Next time give her a heaping tablespoon of activated charcoal and she will be up and around in 20 minutes as if nothing happened, but it will suck up any meds ya got in you that have not getten into the blood stream so have to wait for those to be absorbed first.  Works for most people, oh and that is not medical advice btw :)

In both cases, the patient (I in one and my then-girlfriend in the other) were immediately admitted and treated. There were others sitting around the waiting room in both instances - I assume they had injuries or illnesses that they regarded as emergencies as well.

Emergency rooms operate on a triage basis. If your friend is walking and talking and not visibly injured he's likely not a priority one case - even if he's in agonizing pain. This is why I don't go to the emergency room unless I have absolutely no other option. Unless they think you have an immediately life-threatening problem, the emergency room is going to make you wait.

He needs to go to a doctor. Find a clinic. Make an appointment with a VA physician. Get help.



well he told me he told them his pain level averages between 5 to 8 with 10 about passing out so that is a huge discomfort, and his major issue with the hospital is that there were empty examining tables that you could see in open doctors offices that he could have used to relieve some of his pain and for the sake of an argumetnb drop it to a 4 or 3 that they would not let him use.  There was only one other person in the waiting area and he was waiting for someone they were treating.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 6:09:37 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

This anecdotal example isn't relevant because there are contrary anecdeotal examples, which means this requires a comprehensive analysis.  It just isn't true people will wait longer for healthcare with the public option.  The public option provides competition which forces insurance companies to provide cheaper rates, that's all, so stop trying to scare people.  


the public option will undercut insurance that will bring prices down temporarily until the majority is swayed over then no private option will be even with in reach for anyone but the most wealthy eventually becoming a staple wherein services will then begin serious declines with no remedy, expecially to the now dependant middle class.

Sort of like the vanishing pension that disappears as soon as you go to collect it and the social security that you get just enough to buy food and rent with and pay taxes on, on top of that!

yeh great plan man!

The solution is to get government and pharma and insurance out of the medical industry not go deeper in bed with them.

Wasnt it goebells who said you can fuck over the public and they will run to you to fix it?  Government! What a racket.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 7:19:06 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
I just got done babysitting a friend of mine who was in severe pain.   He is a vet who I drove to the VA hospital (you know GOVERNMENT MEDICAL FACILITY), into emergency with extreme pain from what sounds like a hernia.   There were moments where he was fading in and out and ready to pass out the pain was so bad.



Was your friend named Richard Cheney, by any chance? I heard he is getting pretty good treatment at a government medical facility.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 10:20:27 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
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quote:

The solution is to get government and pharma and insurance out of the medical industry not go deeper in bed with them.


Lotsa luck selling this to the hopelessly indoctrinated masses, the parasites who feed on the host, and those at the top of the food chain who orchestrate our reality...

quote:

...fuck over the public, and they will run to you to fix it...


Ah... but don't you see the genius in creating a problem, so you can usher in the solution you always wanted in the first place?

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 10:41:27 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Socialist/Commie/Pinko Dick Cheney getting free government healthcare with his 5 heart attacks and 5 deferments.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
I just got done babysitting a friend of mine who was in severe pain.   He is a vet who I drove to the VA hospital (you know GOVERNMENT MEDICAL FACILITY), into emergency with extreme pain from what sounds like a hernia.   There were moments where he was fading in and out and ready to pass out the pain was so bad.



Was your friend named Richard Cheney, by any chance? I heard he is getting pretty good treatment at a government medical facility.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/23/2010 11:37:32 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

To "doctor" up an EKG ? Just apply a percussive pressure (in certain locations) to the patient in time, and in between heartbeats. You can make it look like the guy's half dead despite the fact that he has the heart of a teenager.

Sorry to burst bubbles on almost every subject, but I did it to myself and it didn't kill me yet.

T

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RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/24/2010 4:57:57 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
Socialist/Commie/Pinko Dick Cheney getting free government healthcare with his 5 heart attacks and 5 deferments.


are you kidding? 

not me I am not a polititard, they all suck. the whole corporate lot of them.

BUT you still HAVE NOT RESPONDED to my question.

I said I agree that the creation of a national healthcare plan would reduce the deficit and I wanted to know how you came to that conclusion and why of all the options you would choose THAT way to reduce it?











< Message edited by Real0ne -- 2/24/2010 4:59:05 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/24/2010 6:57:20 AM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline 		My front door is on the second floor.

Six steps and then a landing.

Right turn and six more steps gets you to my front porch.

I ordered a package that was delivered Thursday via USPS Priority Mail.

It made it to the landing.

I can't wait to see that kind of "halfway there" performance from government run health care.






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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: So you think you want health care huh? - 2/24/2010 7:26:16 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
This anecdotal example isn't relevant because there are contrary anecdeotal examples, which means this requires a comprehensive analysis.  It just isn't true people will wait longer for healthcare with the public option.  The public option provides competition which forces insurance companies to provide cheaper rates, that's all, so stop trying to scare people.  

the public option will undercut insurance that will bring prices down temporarily until the majority is swayed over then no private option will be even with in reach for anyone but the most wealthy eventually becoming a staple wherein services will then begin serious declines with no remedy, expecially to the now dependant middle class.

Private insurance is already out of reach for most Americans. The premium for a family of four is more than the average mortgage! And service already is in serious decline. We used to have the best health care system in the world - two decades ago. Now we are barely also ran.

I find it very interesting how the private health insurance industry talks out of both sides of their mouths here. On the one hand, they claim to be cheaper than the government could be, and then they turn around and argue that they "would be undercut" and can't compete with a public option.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
Sort of like the vanishing pension that disappears as soon as you go to collect it and the social security that you get just enough to buy food and rent with and pay taxes on, on top of that!


Oh, and pensions have disappeared in PRIVATE pension plans. PRIVATE health insurance companies have been raising premiums - most recently Aetna by 40% in a single year.


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 39
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