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RE: training or abuse - 3/31/2006 5:44:22 AM

MrDiscipline44

Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: loneslavepgh

Here's a situation. the slave has an independant income and as a part of her situation puts her money into the "house funds" to help pay for needs expenses etc. she is promised security, help with things and stability in return for her servitude. Stability never comes, her position is always precarious and the "owners" feelings about it change with the moment never really accepting fully or adknowledging her gift of slavery and then refuses to help her work through her fears reguarding giving it all up and basicially ignoring her and making her work on her own.

No one has addressed this so I shall. Sometimes, it doesn't matter what another does or does not do to help us. Sometimes we have to work through our insecurities on our own. We can't always say "You are supposed to help me." when we are not helping ourselves.

I find that your whole "The Gift of Slavery" to be rubbish. Slavery isn't anymore a gift then being a Master is. This is comming from one who owns two slaves. Did you consider his dominance of you a "gift". You don't make it sound like you did. Sometimes dominance and submissiveness are intertwining. If you want him to cherish this "Gift" of yours then you had better be cherishing his dominance of you. If you don't think he is cherishing it, maybe he doesn't think your cherishing what he is giving you. But fankly, if one of my girls came to me and said her slavery was a gift to me I slap her for the insult and send her back to work. Her slavery is not a gift, it's her curse. And I'm the devil that will extract it upon her.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to loneslavepgh)

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RE: training or abuse - 3/31/2006 9:26:20 AM

namasteguardian

Posts: 20
Joined: 6/29/2005
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As can be seen from the many varied responses to your question, sonsei, the line between training and abuse is more a moving target. It is completely dependent on the particular Master and sub/slave. Reading through these posts, you can see that what some consider abuse, others consider training and vice versa.

I think your real question is where is that line for you, sonsei? you imply that you are new to the scene, and that your Master is experienced. Experience in of itself is no panacea, as every Master's style is different. you seem to be having real issues with whether this line is being crossed with you. This may not be the right master for you.

Training is fun, erotic, stimulating. It can also be scarry as hell. It is the Master's job to push your limits, to test your boundaries. The right Master should know how to push you right to your limit, without ever crossing it. This is as much art as skill. With the right Master, you should feel comfortable that you are being tested at the level that is right for you. Sure there will be those moments of doubt, but as long as most of the time it feels right to you, and those moments of doubt are few and far between, you can feel you are in the right place in your head.

The best thing anyone in the scene can do is listen to their instincts. Most of us have a much better idea of what we believe we want, if only we would stop to listen to ourselves. Everything you are saying in your posts indicates to me you are NOT comfortable in your current situation. you need to have a heart to heart with your Master. If the issues cannot be resolved in a way that is comfortable for both, you are in the wrong relationship.

I hope this helps.
Namaste, Sir Dominic

"Life was not meant to be easy, but it was meant to be fun!"

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)

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Post #: 22

RE: training or abuse - 3/31/2006 9:39:15 AM

Begsnice

Posts: 9
Joined: 12/31/2005
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If it feels like abuse then it is.
If your insides are saying this doesnt feel right, you need to listen to them.
Trust your instincts.

Begsnice

(in reply to sonsei)

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Post #: 23

RE: training or abuse - 3/31/2006 3:45:17 PM

skosterow

Posts: 6
Joined: 2/2/2006
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A Master won't use pyschological abuse.

I have to disagree here - psycological torture and psycological punishment is a valuable tool for a Master. These can be coupled with physical punishment etc.

I say this because - say the use of undressing in a public place after a pet pushes the limits at a resturant. Physcological torture no? or even placing them over your knee in a public place, there is both pyschological AND physical.

I think the differance between abuse and play - or pet training, is anger. NOTHING should ever be done by any Dom / Master in anger.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)

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RE: training or abuse - 3/31/2006 4:19:19 PM

carlsteel

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/13/2005
From: North West Arizona
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Here's my probably unpopular comments. I first of all feel this may spill over into the Humiliation thread I'm about to peruse, so I'd just like to put that thought into people's heads. Secondly, I occasinaly get into some edge play that's what I describe as emotionally abusive and I do it deliberately and not for any training purposes but simply becasue I like it and the sub I'm playing with will submit to the experience for one reason or another.

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Post #: 25

RE: training or abuse - 4/3/2006 2:19:26 AM

sonsei

Posts: 5
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Thank you all for taking the time to respond. You've helped me find a way to finally let go and find some peace, I hope.

I do believe he wanted me as his slave. I do believe he loves me and always will, as he's stated. But I also believe that based on a past which is unique to me and issues from it that I'm still trying to resolve, that his training methods were damaging, not to mention apparently ineffective. That's not to say he's a bad person or even a bad or incompetent Master. He did what he knew in the way he has experience in doing it.

If my trust level in him were plotted on a graph, the line would slowly rise from the beginning until sometime after a year. It would then start steadily going down until, at the end, it was actually lower than it was when we began. My most frequent emotions were frustration, anger, failure, fear, confusion - lots of confusion, which may be where some of the other feelings stemmed from. There were also fantastically wonderful experiences and positive emotions such as contentment, joy, hope, adoration, peace, and confidence. Overall, those only occurred about 30% of the time, but that was enough to keep me there and trying.

It's been over for 9 months since it ended and I don't obsess 24/7 anymore, but I still have frequent arguments in my head about what went wrong, what I could have done differently, why I had so much trouble, etc.

loveslavepgh, you described my situation exactly; in fact, I had to look at your profile to see if maybe I knew you. namasteguardian, thank you for your words. They especially helped.

Bottom line - it's over and I honestly don't know if I'll ever be able to allow myself to live the M/s lifestyle again. I have doubts about even scening again - having experienced it with love for someone I'm serving, I can't see doing it without that connection that exists and I'm aware of even while floating in subspace. I can't even find words to describe that connection. I discovered that this lifestyle existed about 6 years ago, and knew shortly thereafter that I couldn't dabble in it. I wanted all or nothing. I wish I could do it, but scening to enjoy scening leaves me feeling so empty and hurting (no pun intended) that it's easier just not to have it.

This was my first r/l experience. To say I miss him is an understatement. There was an indefineable quality to my life that I've never experienced, but feel like I've always searched for - without even knowing it. Even during the bad times I felt like I really belonged somewhere. I'd found an emotional home as well as a physical one. This is the first time I've talked about it. Thanks for listening and for your thoughts.

sonsei

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"Life is the whim of several billion cells to be you for a while."

(in reply to carlsteel)

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Post #: 26