quote:

Iracys!! I assure you that the word DOORMAT whenever you read it, hear it, or encounter it outside the context of BDSM does and will mean just what it means. Sorry to burst your bubble. This website only goes so far with the real world. So does BDSM as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
"Hey ya know..your right..let's do it this way"
That seems to be what your saying.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
If somebody is called a Daddy, there's hardly a negative thought about it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
Strange, I watch TV news stories and such. Hell, even stuff on the Today show (that popular morning show) while engage upon the Doormat topic or use the doormat word, none of it very positive.

quote:

No - I'm saying I don't give a shit because there isn't any consequence (good or bad) to caring one way or the other. It doesn't change your situation, or how you live, if your label definition corresponds to anyone else; with one exception - your partner.

This was a tremendous opportunity to point out hypocrisy or at minimum selective rationalism. I let beth handle the relativism and attempt to bring some light regarding her position over the weekend; but it's Monday, and I felt it necessary to bring my pragmatic viewpoint into the discussion. Relatively I don't relate to inclusiveness being limited to points of agreement. Accepting and including disagreement is a better test for that representation.

My "needs" aren't addressed because people believe that beth's self representation which includes the word 'doormat' is positive or negative. My needs are address by beth. There is no one word, or group of words, which function for that purpose. My needs aren't served by converting anyone to accept her self identity.

My goal isn't to create agreement or disagreement. I seek only clarity. Is it not clear who has represented the prejudicial and judgmental position in this instance?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

My Pet,
Slave,
Little girl
bitch
whore
slut
My Victim
Master
My Lord
Sir
Sire
fuckhole
Piss-slut
cunt

Is the positive reference to 'bitch' a tough female in the business world? Or do you have the winner of the Westminster Kennel Club event in mind?

Is there really a a positive mindset referenced to 'cunt' on TV?

The Today show has positive 'slave' stories?

Admittedly I only brought these for consideration from the first page - but feel free to add from the others if they make your point better, or think I've selectively only brought the "negative" out for discussion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

Once you start using a word as part of the BDSM Terminology, it's best to have a fucking established uniformed meaning to the word that means the same thing for every body!

There is a big difference between Terminology and using pets names (cunt, bitch, slut, doormat, whore, fuckmeat).

Terminology should have a uniformed meaning for everybody to prevent mind fucking confusion and it's meaning should not vary greatly from fucking person to person!!

If you think otherwise, go burn your own fucking dictonary cause it's worthless. Tear out the Appendix's or whatever it is in the back of any technical books as well. Cause it's all worthless.

Go back and reread the OP of this thread! Clearly Doormat was not used as a pet name!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
Go back and reread the OP of this thread! Clearly Doormat was not used as a pet name!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
Initially, this is intended to invite discussion into the reasons and views concerning the word having such a negative connotation and what each of us views as the traits indicative of someone we would label a doormat.

And then, as I was organizing my thoughts to begin this thread, an ironic musing struck me:

What is the difference between a doormat and a sub/slave in a relationship so trustworthy that demands made by hir D-type aren't even internally critiqued/questioned?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
Look! I will say this again! I don't see a problem in the use of such for PET NAMES! Fucking get my position turned around right.

I'm talking about using it for acceptable TERMINOLOGY!! not fucking nicknames!! Grrr....!!
BDSM TERMINOLOGY.

GO BACK Reread the fucking Opening post and the context the word DOORMAT was used in!! It was not used a Pet name, or personal personification.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

The entire concept of a D/s dynamic is moot without the element of control.

No way! That would conflict with the results of 25 pages of this thread!

The "entire concept of a D/s dynamic" is about word definitions.

You have to make sure you carve out your rationalizations. The rationalized debate for the word 'doormat' has taken on value for some who, on the other hand, require 'acceptance' for their labels and word used.

For example...

Ignore the pedophilia references to 'daddy doms'. Ignore the fact that you can't include the word 'woman' in your name so your not "confused" with a subset of philosophical belief in a lifestyle framed around science fiction stories. From that foundation and expectation of complete 'lifestyle' 'community' acceptance and/or tolerance; pontificate how words used by others only have one definition - yours.

"Control" or the ultimate authority of people having relationships is only legitimized by many if told in the first person. There is much less, third person acceptance. However it is really a good thing. Only insecurity would have you argue or feel "offended". Where as a laugh or smile response serves as a confidence builder, no matter how frustrating it gets trying to educate and inform.

Please don't try to change this reality! Without being able to witness such insecurity or read such hypocrisy and rationalization on a regular basis; there would be no sadistic entertainment value provided by CM.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Look! I will say this again! I don't see a problem in the use of such for PET NAMES! Fucking get my position turned around right.

I'm talking about using it for acceptable TERMINOLOGY!! not fucking nicknames!! Grrr....!!
BDSM TERMINOLOGY.

GO BACK Reread the fucking Opening post and the context the word DOORMAT was used in!! It was not used a Pet name, or personal personification.

Please - once is more than enough.

I can summarize it based on your posts. Ignoring the individuals representation or how it relates to their relationship, a word used in a manner you support is considered "BDSM TERMINOLOGY"; a similarly used a descriptive word you abhor however is limited to "PET NAME" application.

Got it! "Piss Bucket" okay as a 'pet name' - BAD if a person identifies as such. To use a word you like to employ - FUCK! (terminology or pet name?) them if they see it as a relationship empowering word both as "BDSM TERMINOLOGY" and "PET NAME" application. You know better then they do concerning the implications on others and the impact it has to the homogenized BDSM 'community'.

In your mind, a person identifying as such has a big problem. Self worth, image, lacking pride; what is it that you use to distinguish your position? Accepting that you are good with them using it as a cute nickname, either self assigned or in descriptive use by their partner, but not willing to let them use it as "Grrr....!! BDSM TERMINOLOGY"; what is your determination 'test'? Obviously, somehow you, and others too, do have some rationalized 'test' in mind. Will you share it?

Do you make that judgmental determination to rationalize your position every time you see a word referenced? It must take up a big portion of your day. Forget about writing a pamphlet. It would be more productive for you to publish your absolute, one true definition for each word and label - "BDSM TERMINOLOGY" dictionary. Or would it be an encyclopedia? You should note however, that even the 'one true way' Oxford English Dictionary accounts for new words being added to the language and changes in word meanings. Or do you discount the possibility of any evolution occurring once you set down your truth?

You stand up to determine and set the "acceptable TERMINOLOGY"? Once complete anyone either accepts it or not? Do we get voted off? I'll save you the time - so required - I resign from your community.

However, I note progress! Glad to see you back off of the absolutist position concerning the label and use of 'daddy'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: wisdomtogive

Words that echo a negative connotation: doormat and slave are two that come to mind, so we of intelligent mind should forbid their use or a submissive using those words to describ what is in their heart. After all it is better to be politically correct in our world, then to create another reality that is not based on the facts. We must define words through the usage of media input be it from the dictionary, television, radio, newspaper or any other form of media.
We will claim the right to intelligent living and thinking based on these forms, since in the past it always proved the right thing to do.

The earth is flat and dare not tell anyone it is not. It is pure heresy  to believe anything else. The bible told us right here that it is flat. This was the media of a time long ago with the same type of thinking that seems to prevail in our current era. Media proves things are right and we must follow blindly these writings or sayings. We must become slave to these media outlets. It is the right thing to do.

oh pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
The day i start believing the media as absolute truth, the day you might as well burn me at a cross.

wisdom

quote:

Look, when I first engaged in this thread. I was not out to define anything. Actually, I had discounted the value of NZ's opening post

quote:

I do take the Doormat Syndrome or Vanilla Doormat issues are being very real and they can pose problems here in BDSM land even! Yes, the vanilla doormats just might find there way here!

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I was not trying to breach on anybody's Pet name hot fantasy names!!

quote:

Unless dealt with properly!!

quote:

Those Wonderful Passive Aggressive issues will go off like a time bomb!!

quote:

Lord, slapping my forehead...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
If somebody is called a Daddy, there's hardly a negative thought about it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Look, when I first engaged in this thread. I was not out to define anything. Actually, I had discounted the value of NZ's opening post

So, going back to the OP wasn't something you wanted to really do, was it?


Hell Yeah it was, going back to the OP was something I wanted to do. what makes you think otherwise? I openly expressed how and why I discounted it and for what reason. I was simply going to move on from there. I read tazzy's girl post and it made me see things in a slightly different light.

quote:

I do take the Doormat Syndrome or Vanilla Doormat issues are being very real and they can pose problems here in BDSM land even! Yes, the vanilla doormats just might find there way here!

So do I and do a lot of work and contribute to those so abused in the real world. What has that got to do with anyone using the word on an internet site to represent themselves or their relationship?

Let me express this to you, that the Doormat articles and stuff tazzygirl brought up and people seeing things from that end of the spectrum, took it like all was made up bullshit. In regards to using the word on a personal level knock yourself out. I personal question the social and personal implications and misconceptions and confusion it might bring. But that's me questioning things. I'm dumping those questions and thoughts and engaging in things here on this Message Board. Even myself trying to establish and make sense of a few things, such as the other kinds of Doormats.

quote:

I was not trying to breach on anybody's Pet name hot fantasy names!!

Unless the words you assumed were "hot fantasy names" instead were descriptive of how they viewed themselves or their position within their relationship. In that case - you've been trying very hard to breach their belief and understanding.


I have used also the word personal personification many many times, and have not reduced it down to one singular as "hot fantasy name" though hot fantasy name does apply to some. Pease go back and reread some of my posts. I have stressed personal personifiations to which somebody identifies with. Hence personification of the word itself.

Communication, Debates, thoughts, Ideas and such, do tend to Breach Beliefs and understandings! While breach is a word with negative tone, oh Hell yeah. I'm attempting a breach of my own beliefs and understandings as well in this process. In fact, I've already been breached a few times myself on this thread.

quote:

Unless dealt with properly!!

Incorrect usage subject to arrest, or will a fine penalty suffice? Are you the personification of the 'word police'?


The context of what I said totally flew over your head and million miles away, you are so far off in what I meant by that it's not even funny.

You desire to be the 'white knight' champion for those who chose the word to represent their poor self image is duly noted. You fail to consider those that, like the word 'slave', take on the label in pride. Now what?

Was the first sentence a sincere question or a lot of words put together as a means to call me a 'white knight'? because I sincerely don't see anybody choosing thiis word as a means to represent poor self image at all, and it should not be duly noted as such. I have not failed to consider anybody who adopts this label in pride. Matter of fact beth has stated her pride. However, this does not change the negative connotations involved and the meaning of Doormat at large, or people that are actual doormats with boundary issues and such. Have you taken the time to read of the links that were shared in this thread yet? Because those things will explain it more detail.

quote:

Those Wonderful Passive Aggressive issues will go off like a time bomb!!

You'll have to provide more on this statement. What "Passive Aggressive issues" and will the "time bomb" be nuclear or at the fire-cracker level?
Google the following combination of words together; Doormat Passive Aggressive (or) Doormat Passive Aggression
One of the 2 cases should get you there. :-)

quote:

Lord, slapping my forehead...

No need for self-flagellation! Seriously - this is the internet. Any resemblance to reality is strictly coincidental. (For instance; beth is, in reality, a 375 pound bald guy, wearing stained boxer shorts and a messy tee shirt living in his mother's basement.) Don't take words so seriously that you change your personal reality to reflect what you feel is a 'positive image'. BE positive instead and let your 'image' convey the words instead of the other way around.

Yes....any resmeblence to reality is strictly and purely coincidential. Totally agree with you on that one. :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

Damn, Who'd ever think that using a message board to engage in debates on topics, did not mean somebody would not be faced with possible breaches in personal belief and understandings.

Shall I add this as a new Sig line?

WARNING! I'm engage in using the message board to Breach other people's personal beliefs and understandings as well as my own.