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Doormats - 2/23/2010 12:29:05 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I started thinking about the term again while browsing this thread.

Initially, this is intended to invite discussion into the reasons and views concerning the word having such a negative connotation and what each of us views as the traits indicative of someone we would label a doormat.

And then, as I was organizing my thoughts to begin this thread, an ironic musing struck me:

What is the difference between a doormat and a sub/slave in a relationship so trustworthy that demands made by hir D-type aren't even internally critiqued/questioned?


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 12:31:09 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		"doormat" only exists in the minds of people who see someone who is in synch in a manner they cannot comprehend.

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 12:42:42 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		PErsonally I don't have a positive image of doormats..but that is not lifestyle related. You might say I am kinda prejudiced.
To be honost..I never met a lifestyle doormat, so I am not sureif they are the same as the ones I have in mind..or that it is just a fantasy name..in which people allow every thing to themselfs....

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 12:47:04 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I would have to say that for the sub/slave that no longer questions is exactly because of that trust that they have in the Dominant, rather than the blind trust that the supposed 'doormat' would give to anyone whether they earned it or not.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:02:07 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I am a happy, healthy, card carrying (okay not really) doormat.  I really don't have a whole lot of questions to, for, or about my partner.  I had questions early on both that I asked directly and those I had to answer internally.  Questions asked and answered.  Now it is time to go forward based on that knowledge.  As long as someone's read the care instructions and hazard warning attached to me and consistently attends to them, then they can do as they please.  I know when it is time they will care for me properly and will not do anything to make me unusable in the future.

I think the doormat reference really has more to do with trying to demand respect where it hasn't been earned.  "I'm no doormat." is just another way of saying "I'm submissive, but respect me dammitall!"  I don't respect (beyond basic human common courtesy) someone of any walk of life.  This doormat thing is the "Kneel bitch!" of the submissive side.  That respect is earned.  Demanding makes you look like an impudent child.  The reality is, when a submissive knows to his/her depths that he/she is respected, that dominant can trample that submissive underfoot and the submissive is honored by it.  I can willingly be my partner's doormat and feel very good about that because I know he views me at his feet as something special.  Do as he may, he will prize a doormat like me above any elegant adornment.  But then again, I'm a happy doormat.

lovingpet

< Message edited by lovingpet -- 2/23/2010 1:08:50 PM >

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:05:00 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		Thank you for explaining..that makes thing much clearer for me.
Sounds not as bad..as the name suggests

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:05:22 PM   
afkarr


Posts: 328
Joined: 1/13/2010
Status: offline 		A doormat had no self esteem or automany to begine with; while those in a deeple commited relationship retain theri self esteem and voluntarily choose to give up automany.

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:06:22 PM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		I agree. I do find it amusing that so many submissives laugh at dominants who demand respect as a given-and then turn around and do exactly the same thing that they find to be so distasteful in others.

Isn't there a descriptive WORD for this sort of behavior?

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

I am a happy, healthy, card carrying (okay not really) doormat.  I really don't have a whole lot of questions to, for, or about my partner.  I had questions early on both that I asked directly and those I had to answer internally.  Questions asked and answered.  Now it is time to go forward based on that knowledge.  As long as someone's read the care instructions and hazard warning attached to me and consistently attends to them, then they can do as they please.  I know when it is time they will care for me properly and will not do anything to make me unusable in the future.

I think the doormat reference really has more to do with trying to demand respect where it hasn't been earned.  "I'm no doormat." is just another way of saying "I'm submissive, but respect me dammitall!"  I don't respect (beyond basic human common courtesy) someone of any walk of life.  This doormat thing is the "Kneel bitch!" of the submissive side.  That respect is earned.  Demanding makes you look like an impudent child.  The reality is, when a submissive knows to his/her depths that he/she is respected, that dominant can trample that submissive underfoot and the submissive is honored by it.  I can willingly be my partner's doormat and feel very good about that because I know he views what me at his feet as something special.  Do as he may, he will prize a doormat like me above any elegant adornment.  But then again, I'm a happy doormat.

lovingpet


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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:13:11 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		this slave was a doormat before Master found her.

she was useful, quiet, non-demanding and submissive to those who crossed her path that weren't considered sociopathic. this slave managed to get mud, puke and all manner of other's mess on her!!! (ok, maybe once to a sociopath, but she managed to get away before being done in by him.)

thing is, this slave's submission wasn't just reserved for that special someone that inspired it, or for that person that "earned" it, as if it was a commodity, or only for a relationship partner, or only if she was sufficiently in love, or only on Tuesday afternoons if she wasn't on her period, etc...it's just the way she is and the way she is fulfilled through all her interpersonal relationships, be they familial, filial, financial, emotional, sexual or otherwise.

some folks refer to that as being a doormat---this slave would agree, but not with a negative connotation attached to it. it's a pleasure to be useful as another defines it, however they choose to do so...doormat included.

for this slave, that is what her experience with and perception of submission is.

As Merc stated earlier...

In the days when being a 'gentleman' was considered a desired trait for men; Sir Walter Raleigh was often given as an example of the ideal. For all his other accomplishments, Sir Walter may be best know for something he didn't do - laying down his cloak so 'Queen Elizabeth I' would not need to step in the mud.

Hark ye, Master Raleigh, see thou fail not to wear thy muddy cloak," the queen exhorts Sir Walter, "in token of penitence, till our pleasure be further known." Sir Walter vows never to clean the cloak, and later the queen, delighted with his gallantry, invites him to visit the royal wardrobe keeper that he may be fitted for "a suit, and that of the newest cut."

Although the story wasn't true, it places a position of honor on lowering oneself to be the proud doormat of another. What better token of commitment, respect, and humility can there be in service of another; whether a Queen or a Master?

Truth be told, there is, or at least should be, a little 'doormat' in all of us. In tossing a 'cloak' of aid over a problem for a friend, a relative, or even a stranger; we all risk the possibility of getting a bit of 'mud' on us. So what? It washes off, and sometimes you feel good about involving yourself in the process.

A slave or submissive may choose to be a 'doormat', or a 'cloak' over a muddy pothole, 24/7 to their partner but feels no humiliation in doing so; indeed many feel Sir Walter Raleigh type pride. A confident proud 'doormat' is beautiful and a treasure to own even if others perceive it 'muddy'.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 2/23/2010 1:26:40 PM >

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:16:04 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I would have to say that for the sub/slave that no longer questions is exactly because of that trust that they have in the Dominant, rather than the blind trust that the supposed 'doormat' would give to anyone whether they earned it or not.

Then it's not really the doormatting itself that's the problem, it's the reasons for it?

Interesting. So, in those instances, when people use the word "doormat" in that fashion, they are essentially saying the submission equivalent to "whore": someone who gives up something we see as personal for reasons we do not consider virtuous (usually, doing so loosely being a primary culprit).

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

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Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:18:32 PM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

A doormat had no self esteem


perhaps they have a lott...and that is the reason they dare to

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:21:12 PM   
antinomy


Posts: 124
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		Doormats have no choice as to who owns them (not privy to deciding who buys them), have no say in where they will be put into service (front door, back door, mud room, doggie run, The White House, a strip club, a private dwelling?), who steps on them or in what way (the pizza delivery guy gets to use it....as does the postman with puppy poo on his feet). Doormats are not capable of being selective. They simply exist to serve a purpose for their owners. It's all so arbitrary. Which is what I find so distasteful about the analogy. I might not mind being a doormat, or at least having doormat-like qualities, for the right guy- but, I had the choice whether to be owned by a man that wanted to treat me like one, and I could have opted out.

Edited for spelling and to add a late thought.

< Message edited by antinomy -- 2/23/2010 1:27:11 PM >

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:25:45 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: antinomy

Doormats have no choice as to who owns them (not privy to deciding who buys them), have no say in where they will be put into service (front door, back door, mud room, doggie run?), who steps on them or in what way (the pizza delivery guy gets to use it....as does the postman with puppy poo on his feet). Doormats are not capable of being selective. They simply exist to serve a purpose for their owners. It's all so arbitrary. Which is what I find so distasteful about the analogy. I might not mind being a doormat, or at least having doormat-like qulaities, for the right guy- but, I had the choice whether to be owned by a man that wanted to treat me like one, and I could have opted out.


Really?  For me it was totally movable object meets irresistible force when my partner came along.  I don't know that I could have ever NOT wound up being his.  Some people affect us that way.  Most and I would say almost all don't.  Of course, I may not have had much will of my own over him picking me up and buying me, but he certainly had little choice over the fact that I was the one he liked best and couldn't take his eye off of.  Is it really that terribly random?

lovingpet

_____________________________

If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.


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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:30:04 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Drug addicts are happiest when they get their next fix so merely being happy with something isn't enough to say they are in a good situation.

Doormats are the same.  It isn't how much obedience is given or what sort of things are or are not done..but WHY.

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:32:38 PM   
antinomy


Posts: 124
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

quote:

ORIGINAL: antinomy

Doormats have no choice as to who owns them (not privy to deciding who buys them), have no say in where they will be put into service (front door, back door, mud room, doggie run?), who steps on them or in what way (the pizza delivery guy gets to use it....as does the postman with puppy poo on his feet). Doormats are not capable of being selective. They simply exist to serve a purpose for their owners. It's all so arbitrary. Which is what I find so distasteful about the analogy. I might not mind being a doormat, or at least having doormat-like qulaities, for the right guy- but, I had the choice whether to be owned by a man that wanted to treat me like one, and I could have opted out.


Really?  For me it was totally movable object meets irresistible force when my partner came along.  I don't know that I could have ever NOT wound up being his.  Some people affect us that way.  Most and I would say almost all don't.  Of course, I may not have had much will of my own over him picking me up and buying me, but he certainly had little choice over the fact that I was the one he liked best and couldn't take his eye off of.  Is it really that terribly random?

lovingpet


Really. I'm not in any way dismissing what you are saying. You are a submissive woman and were drawn to your Master. That's all cool. However, you DID have a choice. Your choice was to go with your feelings and submit to him. He did not force you to. It's not like you were not part of the equation. A doormat isn't. It's a non-entity. It does not HAVE to meet an irresistible force to be utilized; simply by existing as a doormat, it can be used by whoever happens upon it. Which was the point I was trying to make. A doormat exists. It does not choose. It does not decide. Which is why I personally find it an unappealing comparison.

< Message edited by antinomy -- 2/23/2010 1:33:32 PM >

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:45:11 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I would have to say that for the sub/slave that no longer questions is exactly because of that trust that they have in the Dominant, rather than the blind trust that the supposed 'doormat' would give to anyone whether they earned it or not.

Then it's not really the doormatting itself that's the problem, it's the reasons for it?

Interesting. So, in those instances, when people use the word "doormat" in that fashion, they are essentially saying the submission equivalent to "whore": someone who gives up something we see as personal for reasons we do not consider virtuous (usually, doing so loosely being a primary culprit).

I wouldn't especially go that far.

Part of My issue with the whole concept is the negative link that we now have in respect to the word.  I think this combined with the fact that I have My own preferences about obedience being established over time, rather than being instantaneously given, probably color My own view of the debate.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:45:29 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Drug addicts are happiest when they get their next fix so merely being happy with something isn't enough to say they are in a good situation.

Doormats are the same.  It isn't how much obedience is given or what sort of things are or are not done..but WHY.



An abiding, peaceful happiness is different from an excited flutter just before or after that hit.  I can honestly say that lack of conflict, struggle, and uncertainty are quite healthy for me.  It isn't that I can't hold my own in a conflict, but that not needing to do so is very soothing.  I don't think what I said and what you are describing with the drug user are the same thing. 

lovingpet

_____________________________

If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.


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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:49:38 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: antinomy

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

quote:

ORIGINAL: antinomy

Doormats have no choice as to who owns them (not privy to deciding who buys them), have no say in where they will be put into service (front door, back door, mud room, doggie run?), who steps on them or in what way (the pizza delivery guy gets to use it....as does the postman with puppy poo on his feet). Doormats are not capable of being selective. They simply exist to serve a purpose for their owners. It's all so arbitrary. Which is what I find so distasteful about the analogy. I might not mind being a doormat, or at least having doormat-like qulaities, for the right guy- but, I had the choice whether to be owned by a man that wanted to treat me like one, and I could have opted out.


Really?  For me it was totally movable object meets irresistible force when my partner came along.  I don't know that I could have ever NOT wound up being his.  Some people affect us that way.  Most and I would say almost all don't.  Of course, I may not have had much will of my own over him picking me up and buying me, but he certainly had little choice over the fact that I was the one he liked best and couldn't take his eye off of.  Is it really that terribly random?

lovingpet


Really. I'm not in any way dismissing what you are saying. You are a submissive woman and were drawn to your Master. That's all cool. However, you DID have a choice. Your choice was to go with your feelings and submit to him. He did not force you to. It's not like you were not part of the equation. A doormat isn't. It's a non-entity. It does not HAVE to meet an irresistible force to be utilized; simply by existing as a doormat, it can be used by whoever happens upon it. Which was the point I was trying to make. A doormat exists. It does not choose. It does not decide. Which is why I personally find it an unappealing comparison.


It isn't a non entity.  It is a doormat.  Frankly, submissive is just a natural state for me and, yes, it has been taken up by people who did not deserve it and did me wrong.  A doormat used but not cared for exists, but a doormat used and cared for exists with purpose and a future.

I get what you are saying.  I am also giving a different spin, however.

lovingpet

_____________________________

If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.


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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 1:56:33 PM   
SlaveSimone


Posts: 95
Joined: 3/17/2008
From: Denver, Co
Status: offline 		To me, doormat has negative connotations because its indicative of being walked on. A doormat is someone who stands by weakly while some one uses, abuses, and generally disrespects them in ways that they are NOT ok with. It's the in ability to stand up for ones self in bad situations. So when our dear most favorite troll says that he wants a doormat, to me that's saying he wants some one who he can trample, stomp on, and treat poorly in all manner, and will still lay at his front door despite feeling completely abused and unhappy in the relationship. I fail to see the positive side of this. Being obedient and compliant is not one with being forced to do things that are sincerely harmful to your being. I love and trust my partner deeply, but if it ever comes to the point where he  puts me in a situation that's damaging to my emotional or physical well being, then no, I'm not going to sit by the way side and let it happen.

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 2:08:33 PM   
antinomy


Posts: 124
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		And, I respect your spin on it. Yes, I concur, a doormat used but not cared for still exists. I did not mean non-entity as in not existing, but rather in being a thing of little consequence or significance. Which, too, may have been a poor choice of words on my part, so I apologize. However, likening submissives to doormats runs into the same problem as other generalizations. It does not fit every situation- and I dare say, not even the majority of them. However, if you are a happy doormat, I'm thrilled for you and your Master!

(in reply to lovingpet)
Profile   Post #: 20
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