RE: What is a "Boi"?

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Jeffff -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/26/2010 2:13:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse quote: ORIGINAL: playboy22 A lesbian that likes to play the role of a young male with short cropped hair , small tits and normally wearing a wife beater or similar attire. They like to act like a male till you punch one in the mouth , then they cry like a girl. Well bless your heart... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Love Ward

Wolf2Bear -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/26/2010 2:19:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen quote: ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear The only part I strongly disagree with is in the gay male community and especially in the Bear community is we use the term 'boy" or "cub"to denote a younger bearish type gay male. Among the gay male dominants, a "boy" is indicative to those who is identifying as submissive gay males. The word "boy" and "boi" are not equal identifiers and do not refer to the same thing. Please, understand that I was not trying to imply that these terms are the same and equate to one another because they do not. Understandable though I was simply trying to offer up another instance where the term boy is often used and in a valid way. Hence why I avoided any comment to how the other term is used in the Lesbian community simply based on the fact that we both know there is a huge chasm between the gay males and the lesbians in the gay community. And it is one which I will not even attempt to try to fix.

stef -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/26/2010 2:42:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: playboy22 A lesbian that likes to play the role of a young male with short cropped hair , small tits and normally wearing a wife beater or similar attire. They like to act like a male till you punch one in the mouth , then they cry like a girl. Hey there playboy? Did you manage to find a pro who would put up with you yet? ~stef

BoiJen -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/26/2010 4:23:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear Understandable though I was simply trying to offer up another instance where the term boy is often used and in a valid way. Hence why I avoided any comment to how the other term is used in the Lesbian community simply based on the fact that we both know there is a huge chasm between the gay males and the lesbians in the gay community. And it is one which I will not even attempt to try to fix. That is so true and a very sad fact. Some of us are working for something better... http://sflbol.com/boys.htm boi

BoiJen -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/26/2010 4:30:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious BoiJen, There was a crappy 'inspirational' quote on the door of the hall at my school which said 'nobody but you has the power to diminish who you are'. I used to repress the urge to throw up every time I saw it, but it kind of has a point-other people's use of a word does not affect who you are or the value of who you are-you might have to use more/different words to describe yourself, but you are still fundamentally going to be yourself-and the only thing you can base your integrity on is yourself. Don't let Outkast get you down-the people whose opinions matter will always know what you mean. MsVC, I get what you're saying. I understand where you're coming from and I appreciate what that means. What I'm trying to express is that in every way mainstream culture has taken away from the gay and lesbian communities and other subcultures. We struggle, we fight, and sometimes we find ourselves being ambushed in dark allies...sometimes we find our brother being tied to a fence being beaten to death. In every instance we can recover because we own our identities. We are who we are on a very base and intellectual level and no one can take the base part from us. When mainstream culture takes away our intellectual means of identity, it's a violation we cannot recover from. We've only got our own words in this world and to relinquish or give away our intellectual ability to identify ourselves then we ARE allowing ourselves to be diminished. I'm not ok with that. I hope this makes sense and welcome Mr. Playboy to meet me in a bar one day and see how far his punching theory goes. boi

VaguelyCurious -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/26/2010 4:43:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen When mainstream culture takes away our intellectual means of identity, it's a violation we cannot recover from. We've only got our own words in this world and to relinquish or give away our intellectual ability to identify ourselves then we ARE allowing ourselves to be diminished. I'm not ok with that. I hope this makes sense and welcome Mr. Playboy to meet me in a bar one day and see how far his punching theory goes. boi No. I'm sorry, but I can't accept your statement that this is a violation we can't recover from. Language evolves, and that evolution is always going to end in dilution; that's how language works. If the meaning of our words becomes diluted then we have to make new ones. Trying to control how other people use words is like pissing at windmills. All you can do is keep adding to the language-that's the only way you can ever be sure that a word will mean exactly what you want it to mean-and even that will only last for a short while. Also, does your intellectual ability to identify yourself really revolve around one noun? You are intelligent and articulate; if you need to use more words then you have the ability and the brainpower to do so. And on the subject of Mr Playboy: if I was there, I would quite happily hold his head still while you punched him in the mouth, and we could see how feminine his crying sounded.

Steponme73 -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/26/2010 5:20:12 PM)
Thanks BoiJen...

LadyNTrainer -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/26/2010 6:25:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: playboy22 A lesbian that likes to play the role of a young male with short cropped hair , small tits and normally wearing a wife beater or similar attire. They like to act like a male till you punch one in the mouth , then they cry like a girl. By "cry like a girl" he actually means "kicks my ass". Clearly the head trauma he sustained the last time he tried that never healed quite right.

RumpusParable -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/27/2010 7:36:34 AM)
Well said, BoiJen.

BoiJen -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/27/2010 11:59:36 AM)
In a class today, the discussion went to the word "queer" and how, frequently now, mainstream, heterosexual individuals use the word to describe their not having a traditional relationship in terms of white picket fences and 2.6 kids. It's not ok. That discussion lead to what I've been trying to say.... For mainstream individuals to use words like "queer" and "boi", it silences us and negates our struggle as a community. It does take away our power and it's invasive, rude, and completely discredits our triumphs as individuals and as a community. It diminishes the value of what we have worked toward and dismisses the struggles and discrimination we still face today. Again...that's NOT ok. boi

Justme696 -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/27/2010 12:19:47 PM)
mm I see what you mean. I looked up the original meaning of the word queer. It is indeed offensive. Never looked at the word as "odd" or "unusual". Sounds wrong though. But I don't think many mean it in a hurting way.

LadyNTrainer -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/27/2010 3:48:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen In a class today, the discussion went to the word "queer" and how, frequently now, mainstream, heterosexual individuals use the word to describe their not having a traditional relationship in terms of white picket fences and 2.6 kids. It's not ok. That discussion lead to what I've been trying to say.... So where do you draw the line? I'm not so sure it's a black and white issue. There are genderqueer people who should be considered an inclusive part of the LGBT community in the "T" category, even though physically they may well be heterosexual. And that subject is something that has also been negated, silenced, dismissed, ignored and shoved under the rug, even by gays and lesbians. quote: For mainstream individuals to use words like "queer" and "boi", it silences us and negates our struggle as a community. It does take away our power and it's invasive, rude, and completely discredits our triumphs as individuals and as a community. It diminishes the value of what we have worked toward and dismisses the struggles and discrimination we still face today. Again...that's NOT ok. How okay is it to dismiss transgendered people from the LGBT community? There's a lot of different flavors of transgender and genderqueer, and not all of them are obvious or involve physical transitioning. How do you decide whether an individual who is questioning their gender and rejecting what mainstream society is telling them about their gender deserves the support of the LGBT community or not?

Wolf2Bear -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/28/2010 3:12:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen In a class today, the discussion went to the word "queer" and how, frequently now, mainstream, heterosexual individuals use the word to describe their not having a traditional relationship in terms of white picket fences and 2.6 kids. It's not ok. That discussion lead to what I've been trying to say.... For mainstream individuals to use words like "queer" and "boi", it silences us and negates our struggle as a community. It does take away our power and it's invasive, rude, and completely discredits our triumphs as individuals and as a community. It diminishes the value of what we have worked toward and dismisses the struggles and discrimination we still face today. Again...that's NOT ok. boi I see your point yet I still wonder over the fact that for so many years, many in the GLBT community strive to erase the negative association the word "queer" that now it's part of the mainstream language- so in a way we have achieved that and now it's a matter of teaching them the correct context of using that term. I am still amazed how the rally cry of the gay community wanting equality yet still insist that we still fight to retain distance from everyone else when it comes to terminology. Most terminology that were once derogatory aren't and we still retain some specific terms that will always be unique to our community-both gay men and lesbians.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (2/28/2010 3:33:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear I am still amazed how the rally cry of the gay community wanting equality yet still insist that we still fight to retain distance from everyone else when it comes to terminology. Most terminology that were once derogatory aren't and we still retain some specific terms that will always be unique to our community-both gay men and lesbians. I know what you're saying, but the counter-argument is that equality should not have to mean homogeneity. I know this can be a sore subject in the US, because of its associations with the policies of 'separate but equal' and all that nastiness, but why does having equal rights mean that a separate cultural identity can't be retained? I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I would be very interested in hearing your reply.

PeonForHer -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (3/1/2010 4:44:07 AM)
People often reach for standard English dictionaries when they discuss equality. These don't cut it, though, for the social and political means of the word. The following's useful: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/equality/ Glad to be of service. ;-)

LaTigresse -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (3/1/2010 8:11:19 AM)
I am just one of those people that don't care about purity of words and their meanings. I've always struggled to understand why people get so possessive and defensive about how words are used. Perhaps I see things too conceptually for it to matter to me. I am okay with not having words to define the specifics in many cases, or in having words evolve and/or mean different things. Yet I do understand the need for some definition, after all without language.....we'd be rather screwed. For whatever reason, when people get all bent over someone miss using a word they identify with.........I just sit back and think "Really??? All of that drama over a WORD?" But again, that is just me. I also do not place the important some do on family names or job titles.

Justme696 -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (3/1/2010 11:09:52 AM)
quote: People often reach for standard English dictionaries when they discuss equality the word has as much meaning as people give to it. No matter how romantic you write it down.

BoiJen -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (3/1/2010 11:39:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer So where do you draw the line? I'm not so sure it's a black and white issue. There are genderqueer people who should be considered an inclusive part of the LGBT community in the "T" category, even though physically they may well be heterosexual. And that subject is something that has also been negated, silenced, dismissed, ignored and shoved under the rug, even by gays and lesbians. How okay is it to dismiss transgendered people from the LGBT community? There's a lot of different flavors of transgender and genderqueer, and not all of them are obvious or involve physical transitioning. How do you decide whether an individual who is questioning their gender and rejecting what mainstream society is telling them about their gender deserves the support of the LGBT community or not? Actually, the T issues are one of a few issues as to specifically why I do not support the NCSF. The NCSF has ignored and refused to pick up on the sexual right issues of the T-community, simply stating that T issues aren't part of their overall mission and making sure that their mission statement reflects that. I fully believe that those dealing with gender identity issues should have the support of the gay and lesbian communities. Their struggles mirror our own and together we face the same severity of issues. I don't think my objection to het, male, s-types using the word "boi" equates to not supporting T issues. quote: ORIGINAL: Wolf2Bear I see your point yet I still wonder over the fact that for so many years, many in the GLBT community strive to erase the negative association the word "queer" that now it's part of the mainstream language- so in a way we have achieved that and now it's a matter of teaching them the correct context of using that term. I am still amazed how the rally cry of the gay community wanting equality yet still insist that we still fight to retain distance from everyone else when it comes to terminology. Most terminology that were once derogatory aren't and we still retain some specific terms that will always be unique to our community-both gay men and lesbians. What we, as a community, are being faced with is a demand for hetero-normative behavior to be accepted into "mainstream" society. Mark Frazier had an amazing keynote speech this weekend at SPLF that could easily tie into Ms. Twisted's workshop "Pansexual: Is it time to reconsider?" The idea is very simple: Why do we, the one's who's non-conformity is what makes us unique, have to loose our identities in an effort to gain respect, acceptance, and equality in this society? What's the point then? To me, demanding that we, as a community, conform is equates to being told "We'll treat you equally the minute you start behaving like a straight woman." And I refuse to settle. "The next time someone tells you how to do what you want, who to do that with, and when to do that....tell them this: 'Fuck you.'"-Mark Frazier quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I am just one of those people that don't care about purity of words and their meanings. I've always struggled to understand why people get so possessive and defensive about how words are used. Perhaps I see things too conceptually for it to matter to me. I am okay with not having words to define the specifics in many cases, or in having words evolve and/or mean different things. Yet I do understand the need for some definition, after all without language.....we'd be rather screwed. For whatever reason, when people get all bent over someone miss using a word they identify with.........I just sit back and think "Really??? All of that drama over a WORD?" But again, that is just me. I also do not place the important some do on family names or job titles. For me, words are such a large percentage of how we communicate with one another, to not make sure that I am absolutely as clear as I can be, is just laziness and the beginning of the deterioration of clear communication with other individuals. To standby silently while words become diluted in meaning, simple is my consent to and participation in that deterioration. After all, we communicate our concepts of life and reality and our experiences through words. If our words start to fall apart because we allow the meaning behind them to become diluted, then it's gonna get harder and harder to communicate those concepts. boi

LadyNTrainer -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (3/1/2010 12:09:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen I fully believe that those dealing with gender identity issues should have the support of the gay and lesbian communities. Their struggles mirror our own and together we face the same severity of issues. I don't think my objection to het, male, s-types using the word "boi" equates to not supporting T issues. If they are clearly cisgender, male bodied and male identified, I can understand that. If they are gender-flexible or gender-questioning, I'd tend to put them on the trans spectrum and say they deserve community support in finding their identity. Most of the young biomales I see who are using that term are definitely not mainstream in their personal experience and expression of gender. Some of them may transition, or decide they're bi or gay. Others will remain attracted only to females regardless of their gender identification. Some of them may end up feeling at peace with being a "third gender" or just not being very gendered, or feeling as if they were both genders, or deciding that they don't fit the gender box at all. Others are just being cute and trendy. I can understand being annoyed at the latter, but the former are deserving of inclusion and support, IMO. I'm personally pleased to see this trend, where more people feel free to reject conventional gender stereotypes and to recognize a wide gender spectrum rather than being forced into a binary division of either male or female. I think nothing but good can come of it socially if there is increased awareness of nontraditional genders.

OttersSwim -> RE: What is a "Boi"? (3/1/2010 12:43:25 PM)
As a trans-person who definitely does not fit into the "flying to Thailand for my SRS" category, het-leaning, but bisexual under the right conditions (Johnny Weir is my first boy-crush, BTW), I have never had any complaints about how the gay and lesbian community treats a person like me. Not that I have had that much interaction, but when I needed a counselor when I lived in D.C. we went to the LGBT center there and got some wonderful help. Likewise, this past weekend, we attended a party for an event held here in Denver called Goldrush which is a trans-oriented conference supported and funded largely by the Gill Foundation here in Denver. I have been in a bar dressed en'femme surrounded by 600+ gay folk and felt completely safe and totally included. I don't know that the term "boi" has such a wide spectrum of people who aspire to it as the "transgender" appellation does. But I tend to be a bit on the "live and let live" side of things because of my own position of being "trans" but not going for a gender destination, and so I would not think twice about perhaps a male person who referred to him/her self as a "boi", nor would it get my panties all in a bunch. However you identify is where I generally come down on it all. But I do see that others will disagree because of the political and social ambitions at stake.

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