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Banks Bet Greece Defaults on Debt They Helped Hide - 2/25/2010 6:46:44 PM   
Brain


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It's really despicable the problems these banks have caused not only for Greece but the entire world. What's really frustrating for me is they’re supposed to improve the economy lending and they aren't satisfied to be first class lending institutions. Lending money just doesn't seem to be enough, so they engage in these ridiculous practices that can cause severe damage to peoples lives; maybe it’s too much testosterone.  Something's got to be done about it and if Obama and the Democrats don't, nobody will; betting to make circumstances worse, shame on them, if this is leadership from the business community it is disgraceful.

I'm not sure if nothing is being done because people don't care or because they don't understand it’s importance.  Obama is too smart not to know it's inevitable a financial crash will happen again, so if he’s not doing something about this, why? I think it's because he's corrupt, I can't think of anything else that makes any sense. I'm not saying he's 100% corrupt, I'm just saying when it comes to Wall Street he is, and so is the Democratic Party. Of course the Republican Party is like Anthony Wiener said, “a wholly owned subsidiary of the insurance companies.”


Banks Bet Greece Defaults on Debt They Helped Hide


By NELSON D. SCHWARTZ and ERIC DASH
Published: February 24, 2010

Bets by some of the same banks that helped Greece shroud its mounting debts may actually now be pushing the nation closer to the brink of financial ruin.

Echoing the kind of trades that nearly toppled the American International Group, the increasingly popular insurance against the risk of a Greek default is making it harder for Athens to raise the money it needs to pay its bills, according to traders and money managers.

These contracts, known as credit-default swaps, effectively let banks and hedge funds wager on the financial equivalent of a four-alarm fire: a default by a company or, in the case of Greece, an entire country. If Greece reneges on its debts, traders who own these swaps stand to profit.

“It’s like buying fire insurance on your neighbor’s house — you create an incentive to burn down the house,” said Philip Gisdakis, head of credit strategy at UniCredit in Munich.

As Greece’s financial condition has worsened, undermining the euro, the role of Goldman Sachs and other major banks in masking the true extent of the country’s problems has drawn criticism from European leaders. But even before that issue became apparent, a little-known company backed by Goldman, JP Morgan Chase and about a dozen other banks had created an index that enabled market players to bet on whether Greece and other European nations would go bust.

Last September, the company, the Markit Group of London, introduced the iTraxx SovX Western Europe index, which is based on such swaps and let traders gamble on Greece shortly before the crisis. Such derivatives have assumed an outsize role in Europe’s debt crisis, as traders focus on their daily gyrations.

A result, some traders say, is a vicious circle. As banks and others rush into these swaps, the cost of insuring Greece’s debt rises. Alarmed by that bearish signal, bond investors then shun Greek bonds, making it harder for the country to borrow. That, in turn, adds to the anxiety — and the whole thing starts over again.

On trading desks, there is fierce debate over what exactly is behind Greece’s recent troubles. Some traders say swaps have made the problem worse, while others say Greece’s deteriorating finances are to blame.

“This is a country that is issuing paper into a weakening market,” said Ashish Shah, co-head of credit strategy at Barclays Capital, referring to Greece’s need for continual borrowing.

But while some European leaders have blamed financial speculators in general for worsening the crisis, the French finance minister, Christine Lagarde, last week singled out credit-default swaps. Ms. Lagarde said a few players dominated this arena, which she said needed tighter regulation.

Trading in Markit’s sovereign credit derivative index soared this year, helping to drive up the cost of insuring Greek debt, and, in turn, what Athens must pay to borrow money. The cost of insuring $10 million of Greek bonds, for instance, rose to more than $400,000 in February, up from $282,000 in early January.

On several days in late January and early February, as demand for swaps protection soared, investors in Greek bonds fled the market, raising doubts about whether Greece could find buyers for coming bond offerings.

“It’s the blind leading the blind,” said Sylvain R. Raynes, an expert in structured finance at R&R Consulting in New York. “The iTraxx SovX did not create the situation, but it has exacerbated it.”

The Markit index is made up of the 15 most heavily traded credit-default swaps in Europe and covers other troubled economies like Portugal and Spain. And as worries about those countries’ debts moved markets around the world in February, trading in the index exploded.

In February, demand for such index contracts hit $109.3 billion, up from $52.9 billion in January. Markit collects a flat fee by licensing brokers to trade the index.

European banks including the Swiss giants Credit Suisse and UBS, France’s Société Générale and BNP Paribas and Deutsche Bank of Germany have been among the heaviest buyers of swaps insurance, according to traders and bankers who asked for anonymity because they were not authorized to comment publicly.

That is because those countries are the most exposed. French banks hold $75.4 billion worth of Greek debt, followed by Swiss institutions, at $64 billion, according to the Bank for International Settlements. German banks’ exposure stands at $43.2 billion.

Trading in credit-default swaps linked only to Greek debt has also surged, but is still smaller than the country’s actual debt load of $300 billion. The overall amount of insurance on Greek debt hit $85 billion in February, up from $38 billion a year ago, according to the Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation, which tracks swaps trading.

Markit says its index is a tool for traders, rather than a market driver.

In a statement, Markit said its index was started to satisfy market demand, and had improved the ability of traders to hedge their risks. The index and similar products, it added, actually make it easier for buyers and sellers to gauge prices for instruments that are traded among players over the counter, rather than on exchanges.

“These indices have helped bring transparency to the sovereign C.D.S. market,” Markit said. “Prior to their creation, there was no established benchmark index enabling investors to track the performance of segments of the sovereign C.D.S. market.”

Some money managers say trading in Greek swaps alone, not the broader index, is the problem.

“It’s like the tail wagging the dog,” said Markus Krygier, senior portfolio manager at Amundi Asset Management in London, which has $40 billion in global fixed-income assets. “There is a knock-on effect, as underlying positions begin to seem riskier, triggering risk models and forcing portfolio managers to sell Greek bonds.”

If that sounds familiar, it should. Critics of these instruments contend swaps contributed to the fall of Lehman Brothers. But until recently, there was little demand for insurance on government debt. The possibility that a developed country could default on its obligations seemed remote.

As a result, many foreign banks that held Greek bonds or entered into other financial transactions with the government did not hedge against the risk of a default. Now, they are scrambling for insurance.

“Greece is not a small country,” said Mr. Raynes, at R&R in New York. “Credit-default swaps give the illusion of safety but actually increase systemic risk.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/25/business/global/25swaps.html?th
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RE: Banks Bet Greece Defaults on Debt They Helped Hide - 2/26/2010 5:51:19 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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that is because the banks are the true government. (of the world and the military)

consider now the Goldman Sachs sent a man to be on the Greek govt just for this issue.

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: Banks Bet Greece Defaults on Debt They Helped Hide - 2/26/2010 7:39:17 AM   
Termyn8or


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Probably should keep an eye on this to see what actually happens in the event they do default. Might be catching a glimpse into our own future.

So what happens if they default ? Nobody's going to take over the country by force, the bombs won't be dropping. No embargo nor official sanction will be imposed.

What's liable to happen is that their currency will drop like a rock, which will make tourism and exports very attractive, and at the same time they will most likely apply for foreign aid. Guess from who ?

After the turmoil, they are likely to emerge with a bit more of an idea on how to properly manage credit, and wind up better off in the long run. Watching them mop up the mess could be quite enlightening to other countries (hint). Too bad US politicians all seem to have a learning disability.

No matter what happened, the end result will be that Greeks have less money and someone else has more. That seems to have been the plan all along. Seems to work well all over the world, and as usual gain is privatised and risk is socialised.

I had a quick question I posed a while back and I'll repeat it now. Is there a single country in the world without debt ? If not how did this happen ?

I must add that these vultures are admirable. I couldn't have ever in my wildest dreams come up with such a successful scam.

T

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RE: Banks Bet Greece Defaults on Debt They Helped Hide - 2/26/2010 7:41:05 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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right- there is a fine line between rape and seduction.   

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RE: Banks Bet Greece Defaults on Debt They Helped Hide - 2/26/2010 4:06:30 PM   
UncleNasty


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I recall there being talk that none of the "Axis of Evil" countries Bush II named having a privately owned central bank. Not necessarily debt free though.

Uncle Nasty

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RE: Banks Bet Greece Defaults on Debt They Helped Hide - 2/26/2010 4:13:59 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

I recall there being talk that none of the "Axis of Evil" countries Bush II named having a privately owned central bank. Not necessarily debt free though.

Uncle Nasty



Bingo

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RE: Banks Bet Greece Defaults on Debt They Helped Hide - 2/27/2010 11:14:05 PM   
LadyEllen


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Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
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To be fair to the bankers, and to the current Greek government - all of this stems from a few years back when the then Greek government wanted to get more money in but were prevented by the Euro rules of membership. That government approached the bankers for a solution and the bankers provided one.

All was well until everything wasnt - the former government got what it wanted and through some creative accounting complied with the rules. The new government was elected late last year, took a look in the books and got one hell of a shock. Theyve had to totally abandon their socialist manifesto in order to try to deal with the fallout.

Someone should take a long drop on a short rope for all this, but not necessarily the bankers on this occasion and definitely not the current Greek government or the Greek people as a whole.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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