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RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 5:53:08 PM

wisdomtogive

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OriginallyFromLa
Your whole purpose of your post is not my concern. I can pretty much assume that you have never experienced these rituals of 'shamans', so have taken your guess work from reading books, as you have taken your experience from what you have read in these bdsm matters. To me you speak only from maybe your experience, and are trying to make broad strokes to intertwine many, when it is not appliable.

Sometimes, it is best to go within oneself to see what the 'ego' is trying to override in the mind, verses trying to push our grasp of reality, or lack of it on others, but then most don't.

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(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 41

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/27/2010 8:28:17 AM

OriginallyFromLA

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Joined: 2/10/2010
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I had a big long reply, but I think I can sum it up this way:

Yes, I am a totally clueless asshole with poor writing skills, too much audacity, and zero experience in either "lifestyle" activites or Shamanistic rituals outside of my own personal experience, which at the time I did not consider either WIITWD activities or shamanistic in nature. I knowingly tried to provoke the readers into an aggrivated response by using the word "addiction". I was feeling particularly assholey yesterday as I often do on Fridays, and I felt like jumping in a pile. You can take that at face value or leave it, it's up to you. It's not an appology, it's just a personal recognition of the facts everyone was kind enough to point out.

However, a lot of people missed my point. And if you want to call me a pussy or a liar go right ahead.

My point was, that people in the "lifestyle" or WIITWD, however you want to call it, whether they know it or not, have figured out a way to control their bodies in such a way that they can tap into their body's ability to release the chemicals that cause pleasure. Some people get a constant trickle because they mesh with their partner and probably don't even realize it's happening becasue it's so subtle. A lot of people might call this love.
On the opposite end of the spectrum people create scenes to get that over the top rush and sometimes experience drop afterwards. Some people, and I would think these make the best Doms, appear to have a rock steady level that never changes. While others have it swinging all over the place. I would think they make the best subs because every time they do something for their Dom/Master they get a little kick.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing at all. I'm saying this is awesome. Sure I have tried to reduce it down to it's most basic level, because after all what is experience but electro chemical reactions in the brain. When it gets to the point of addiction it does concern me, which is why I want to understand and control it so it does not control me.

Full of shit or right on target, I wanted some information I didn't think I was going to get any other way. And I got it. Unfortunatey, you guys are currently my primary source of information. Lucky you.

Once again I do appreciate all the answers.

_____________________________

We keep you alive to serve this ship. Row well, and live.-Quintas Arius

Love IS pain, Highness. Anyone that says different is selling something.-Dread Pirate Roberts

(in reply to wisdomtogive)

Post #: 42

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/27/2010 8:49:38 AM

Justme696

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Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

However, a lot of people missed my point.

perhaps you explained it wrongly ;)

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(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 43

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/27/2010 12:15:22 PM

wisdomtogive

Posts: 636
Joined: 11/13/2009
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OriginallyFromLa
i been working on controling my body way before i got into bdsm or WITTWD. This is just another avenue to explore. Does that make me a junkie or just a free spirit exploring and pushing against limits.

I do not judge you by your spelling, etc, nor think of you as a pussy or whatever word you wish to use on yourself.

Plus i do know when receiving a 'light bulb' effect and wanting to share it with others, the words tangle and do not do justice of what we are trying to reveal. Most likely because we are still clueless to what the revelation is. That is why sometimes to enter our own minds and live with it first until words can be form might help, or perhaps not. that is my choice of addiction, if you wish to call it an addiction. Words are just used a lot of times to degrade or manipulate people, and odd how many people's strings get pulled. My words are running off the board, and contain no meaning. This is when the mind becomes quiet and enters it's own spirit castle.
blessings

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Happily owned by MstrDark1

(in reply to Justme696)

Post #: 44

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/27/2010 12:56:07 PM

jujubeeMB

Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginallyFromLA

My point was, that people in the "lifestyle" or WIITWD, however you want to call it, whether they know it or not, have figured out a way to control their bodies in such a way that they can tap into their body's ability to release the chemicals that cause pleasure. Some people get a constant trickle because they mesh with their partner and probably don't even realize it's happening becasue it's so subtle. A lot of people might call this love.
On the opposite end of the spectrum people create scenes to get that over the top rush and sometimes experience drop afterwards. Some people, and I would think these make the best Doms, appear to have a rock steady level that never changes. While others have it swinging all over the place. I would think they make the best subs because every time they do something for their Dom/Master they get a little kick.

You don't actually know any of this. It's a really bad idea to tell other people what their experiences are, especially in broad, sweeping generalizations. Just talk about your own. And probably making judgment calls on the "best" Doms and subs is a bad idea as well, since there is no "best." I'll agree that there are bad Doms and subs, occasionally, when abuse/stupidity is involved, but no one's kink is better than anyone else's - just different.

If you want to start a thread about something you feel might be true, phrase it with "I" statements: "I feel like a drug addict, almost, because of how badly I crave the rush I get from domination. Does anyone else feel this way?" You'll get your ass kicked less

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 45

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/28/2010 1:03:19 AM

Lorenzo19

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What I have to say has been said by a few people and I am going to try to drill down to the essence of the issue. (I am not going to touch the grammatical constructs of the OP.)

There are two terms here: escapes and addiction.

the same activity can be an esape or an addiction. I'll list a few. gambling, reading, TV, eating, sex (including BDSM), drinking, dancing, clubbing and on and on.

I define an escape as any activity that gets your mind off of the mediocrities and miseries of life.

I define an addiction as an escape that has gotten out of control and has begun making your life worse. Like putting the rent into a slot machine. reading a book when you should be getting ready for work. You get the idea.

I think esapes are healthy. We need escapes to relieve stress and recharge for the next day. I think sex is the best escape there is for many reasons.

Why does an escape become an addiction? I think because the persons life is so miserable (in thier perception) that they cant face it. To cure the addiction the person must face his miserable life and fix it. Simply taking away the escape will still leaving him hating his life and will likely fall back into his addictive behavior.

Advice to OP: Go for it. Have fun. Sex and BDSM is a great escape for a few hours and you're bonding with your loved one too.

_____________________________

Daddy Dom & Romantic Sadist

Everything I needed to know about life I learned by killing smart people and eating thier brains.
Give Me your heart. Make it real. Or else forget about it.

(in reply to jujubeeMB)

Post #: 46

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/28/2010 6:49:14 AM

LadyAngelika

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Joined: 7/4/2004
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Some of these points might have been addressed but I figure I'd chime in and give my 2¢.

I am not addicted to BDSM -- I keep this portion of my life in perspective. That said, I divide WIITWD into 2 parts, the play and the relationship.

The play (incl. sadomaochism, bondage and discipline play) - While I have cravings for play, it a desire and not an addiction. I sometimes desire to drink fabulous wine, again, a desire and not an addiction.

The relationship (more the D/s and M/s aspects) - This is my prefered relationship dynamic. Since I have been single for over a year and functioning quite well, I can pretty much guarantee you that it is not an addiction.

I don't do public play, munches or get involved with much of a community. The only place I really interact with any kind of a community is here. And I do so for many reasons: I like discussions and discussion forums, I like WIITWD, I already spend much time in front of the computer doing research and this provides nice breaks and at times too much distraction. If I could be accused of having anything out of balance, it would be the use of these message boards, but not to support an addiction to BDSM, but rather to discussing, debating, thinking.

- LA

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(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 47

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/28/2010 8:57:42 AM

kiwisub12

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Joined: 1/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginallyFromLA

My point was, that people in the "lifestyle" or WIITWD, however you want to call it, whether they know it or not, have figured out a way to control their bodies in such a way that they can tap into their body's ability to release the chemicals that cause pleasure. Some people get a constant trickle because they mesh with their partner and probably don't even realize it's happening becasue it's so subtle. A lot of people might call this love.
On the opposite end of the spectrum people create scenes to get that over the top rush and sometimes experience drop afterwards. Some people, and I would think these make the best Doms, appear to have a rock steady level that never changes. While others have it swinging all over the place. I would think they make the best subs because every time they do something for their Dom/Master they get a little kick.

Can you prove any of this? Or is this just an assumption.

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 48

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/28/2010 12:33:59 PM

xssve

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Joined: 10/10/2009
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I'll be the first to admit it, I'm addicted to feeling good, and averse to feeling bad - I'm also addicted to food, beverages and oxygen.

Love me, love my addictions, I'm looking for a co-dependent to feed my addictions and who needs me to feed hers, because anything less would be... meh.

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Post #: 49

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/28/2010 10:03:58 PM

roughleather

Posts: 232
Joined: 11/11/2004
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quote:

Yes that's right. Just a bunch of people with a drug addiction. The addiction to endorphins. The whole "lifestyle" with its sceneing and protocols is nothing more than an elaborate ritual that people go through to get themselves into "head space" or "sub space" or whatever you want to call it.

There's something to be said for that. As the kink scene has become less cool, the remaining "players", at least in SF, do seem to be addictive personality types. The people who were in it for fun have mostly dropped out.

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 50

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 3/1/2010 6:43:59 AM

xssve

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I'm sure this topic has been done before, and it boils down to, "even if it is true, so what"?

People get "addicted" to all kinds of things, everybody is addicted to something - other than the real addictions; drugs, alcohol, gambling, etc., that tend to drain your wallet and render you generally non-functional, BDSM is an "addiction" in more of the same sense that politics is an addiction, or religion, or shopping, or making money - every one of these things literally have cults of people who don't know what to do with themselves without their particular delusion.

If anything, BDSM is probably healthier, as it isn't based on denial - there is denial to be found of course, but the processes of BDSM are paths to self knowledge and spiritual enlightenment - now that sounds like a lot of bullshit, but in fact, people who have a greater body awareness are healthier, all of those other things are mostly about pretending to be something you're not, a pure abstraction: a state of omniscience where you're not just another grunt, but better and more "enlightened" than everybody else - BDSM is kind of hard on these sorts of pretensions, and in the end it's really just you and your kink, and someone you trust to do it with - it's about knowing yourself, and knowing your limits, physical and mental, you have to be pretty secure to keep doing it.

And I've never met anybody who does it compulsively - that's more of a vanilla thing, sex addiction, etc., most of the people in here strike me as pretty damn picky about who they do it with.

(in reply to roughleather)

Post #: 51

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 3/1/2010 10:42:33 AM

Hawkwindblues

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From: Berlin, Germany
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Thankfully i had not had time before this evening to write an reply, because Lorenzo19 defined the basic definitions i also wanted to elaborate on.

Furthermore do i understand where the OP is coming from, but as has been said the generalizations and the general tone of the the text maybe robbed us of an oppurtunity to discuss the underlying idea.

I have always had the feeling that a lot of participants of WIITTWD are behaving as members of a secret society. Some of it was more in the past, but mostly it is still the same. I do not know about the USA, but here in Germany a lot of public meetings are filled with a significant number of avantgardistic people and the connections with the art scene are very strong.. And although the big media echo here in Europe and the way SM has become a integral part of every crime show, the core is still the same. And i say: Rightly so, as some or all of us know there are a lot of steps and phases in the way SM is lived, but some of them are extreme and it is right to be careful and make/create borders or tests or rituals before somebody particpate. So i see something religious, something artistic, something hedonistic and a lot more as parts of the human beings that create the scene; the basic need seems for me not only to find a or partners but to be together to know you are not alone. The vast amount of members that you will never see in public due to a myriad of reasons are another group to contemplate about.

As many have said, the idea to describe us as a whole as drug addicts that have problems to live our life and are always on the run for the next fix is disgusting in itself, because as long as SM clubs around the world are still prone to razzias and parents do loose their children because a bad spouse plays the SM card it is at least disloyal. But as i always said: Solidarity only because you live your life and/or practice your sexuality or other desires in a certain way, is a concept that always failed to convince me.

My whole life is very spiritual orientated and that encompasses SM, therefore i agree with CallaFirestormBW concerning the intensity and what i call the same well. That means whatever i do comes from the same well and has the same energy the way i live SM and the way i create a mantra are the same.

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After 10 years with the handle ZenDragoness it is time for a change.

(in reply to Lorenzo19)

Post #: 52

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 3/3/2010 3:16:07 AM

SailingBum

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Sex Rehab is for Quitters Tiger knows about this

BadOne

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Post #: 53

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 3/3/2010 10:56:27 AM

Lorenzo19

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OP, I would like to add to My previous post. I'm pretty sure this will not apply to you but for sake of completeness.

Other than BDSM D/s for the purpose of escape and addiction. There is one other use. For lack of a better term: spiritual suicide. People trying to escape from thier soul/self, no longer wanting to be human. Too bad they will never be able to escape thier humanity, but they try.

_____________________________

Daddy Dom & Romantic Sadist

Everything I needed to know about life I learned by killing smart people and eating thier brains.
Give Me your heart. Make it real. Or else forget about it.

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 54

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 3/4/2010 5:32:04 PM

Hawkwindblues

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Lorenzo19,

a great term you have coined at least for me: Spiritual suicide.

Worth to contemplate it.

HWK

_____________________________

After 10 years with the handle ZenDragoness it is time for a change.

(in reply to Lorenzo19)

Post #: 55

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 3/4/2010 6:50:25 PM

Wolf2Bear

Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginallyFromLA

I'm not saying this is a bad thing at all. I'm saying this is awesome. Sure I have tried to reduce it down to it's most basic level, because after all what is experience but electro chemical reactions in the brain. When it gets to the point of addiction it does concern me, which is why I want to understand and control it so it does not control me.

Full of shit or right on target, I wanted some information I didn't think I was going to get any other way. And I got it. Unfortunatey, you guys are currently my primary source of information. Lucky you.

Once again I do appreciate all the answers.

I accept your explanation fort he moment thoiugh I must insist that you reconsdier using the term drug addiction as you have used it in an incorrect manner. And to try to apply it to the people involved in kink activities a grave injustice.

This is what the Mayo Clinic defines addiction:
An authoritative definition of drug addiction is that propounded by the World Health Organization: "Drug addiction is a state of periodic and chronic intoxication detrimental to the individual and to society, produced by the repeated consumption of a drug (natural or synthetic). Its characteristics include: (1) An overpowering desire or need (compulsion) to continue taking the drug and to obtain it by any means; (2) A tendency to increase the dose; (3) A psychic (psychological) and sometimes a physical dependence on the effects of the drug." This definition of drug addiction includes many drugs which are not within the scope of our study, such as hypnotic and sedative drugs (barbiturates, etc.) alcohol, amphetamine, mescaline (peyote)

Plus after talking with many friends who are in either NA or AA programs, will also agree with that definition I quoted above. If you want verification, you can simply find the nearest NA or AA meeting and ask for their pamphlets on addiction.

So by you painting a vast majority of us kinksters as addicts is complete way off base and offensive. As many have stated as well as myself; yes we do seek the pleasure sensations from endorphins through the way we play yet it is not all consuming. It is not an illness which we have to seek greater and greater doses to feed an addictive craving.

_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 56

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 3/6/2010 10:24:34 AM

lexey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginallyFromLA

Yes that's right. Just a bunch of people with a drug addiction. The addiction to endorphins.

What I really object to is equating endorphins with the generic "drug". I mean seriously, endorphins are produced by the brain. Drugs are produced by money-whore pharmaceutical companies...or by that guy in his shed behind the fence line. Either way, apples to oranges and all...

If you're gonna infuriate, LA, get your metaphors in order. Jeez...

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 57

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 3/8/2010 10:12:03 PM

SirTaskMaster1

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I agree that it is an addiction. However, if it makes your life better and hurts no one else, why not? I have asked myself and my sub if we would continue with no sex. We both agree we would not. So isn't it really sex addiction?

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 58

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 3/8/2010 10:28:17 PM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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Well, there are certainly some good highs to be had, but we can quit any time we want to.

Broadbrushing all of us assorted kinky weirdos as addicts is very wrong. It completely leaves out all those who are into this as a full blown religion.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 59

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 3/8/2010 10:50:34 PM

breakdowNNNNNNNN

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People need a tissue in this thread.

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Post #: 60

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