Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions Page: <<   < prev  10 11 12 13 [14]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions - 3/4/2010 7:47:33 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Bush was no fiscal conservative, and I was always vocal about that, I've always been disappointed with his liberal spending habits.


You weren't on these boards.

That is until the Republicans decided Bush was a liability for the 2008 election and threw him under the bus.

Then you were only too happy to follow along.

quote:

Are you really trying to pretend that you know me?



Now that really hurts.

Are you forgettin' all 'em fishin' trips we took up on Brokeback?

I just cain't quit you Sanity.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 261
RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions - 3/4/2010 8:31:35 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

get it right o Obama mouth.... Obama has TRIPLED the deficits run up by Bush...he is the new leader in the clubhouse by a MILE.....


No he hasn't.


Budget of the United States Government: Main Page


(in reply to cuckyman)
Profile   Post #: 262
RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions - 3/4/2010 8:32:30 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
This is bullshit.

It doesn't freaking matter that Bush was worse than Obama or that Obama is worse than Bush.  I don't give a holy damn at this point.  The point is that both of them are spending/spent more than they should have.  Period.

With that out of the way, let's start getting the deficit under control.  As long as we focus on which President caused more of the damage than the other, we ain't gonna accomplish nuthin'.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 263
RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions - 3/4/2010 8:39:31 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
I have no quarrel with that.

I have a problem with the "Obama tripled the deficit" bullshit.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 264
RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions - 3/4/2010 8:52:34 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

This is bullshit.

It doesn't freaking matter that Bush was worse than Obama or that Obama is worse than Bush.  I don't give a holy damn at this point.  The point is that both of them are spending/spent more than they should have.  Period.

With that out of the way, let's start getting the deficit under control.  As long as we focus on which President caused more of the damage than the other, we ain't gonna accomplish nuthin'.



No, it's not bullshit because you are missing the point.

The Bush deficits came largely from policies that increased spending while decreasing taxes.

The Obama deficit has been because of decreased tax revenue from those tax cuts combined with the effects of a major recession which further lowered tax revenue.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 265
RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions - 3/5/2010 5:41:59 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

This is bullshit.

It doesn't freaking matter that Bush was worse than Obama or that Obama is worse than Bush.  I don't give a holy damn at this point.  The point is that both of them are spending/spent more than they should have.  Period.

With that out of the way, let's start getting the deficit under control.  As long as we focus on which President caused more of the damage than the other, we ain't gonna accomplish nuthin'.



No, it's not bullshit because you are missing the point.

The Bush deficits came largely from policies that increased spending while decreasing taxes.

The Obama deficit has been because of decreased tax revenue from those tax cuts combined with the effects of a major recession which further lowered tax revenue.



You're making my point.  Let me translate what you wrote.

Under Bush, spending increased while revenues dropped because taxes were cut.

Under Obama, spending has increased (you omitted this part) while revenues dropped because of previous tax cuts while salaries dropped.  Again, trying to fix the problems on one or another President's policies.

Let me give you an analogy.  Think of a household where both parents work, and there are kids who don't.  Common enough.  For whatever reason, the family income decreased at the same time that their debt increased.  What is the proper course of action?

Any sane person would conclude that they either increase their income or cut their expenses.  But to say that as a matter of principle, they will maintain spending because it would be wrong to deprive themselves and their children... that's insane.  And that's what's happening today in our country.




_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 266
RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions - 3/5/2010 6:28:46 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Let me give you an analogy.  Think of a household where both parents work, and there are kids who don't.  Common enough.  For whatever reason, the family income decreased at the same time that their debt increased.  What is the proper course of action?

Any sane person would conclude that they either increase their income or cut their expenses.  But to say that as a matter of principle, they will maintain spending because it would be wrong to deprive themselves and their children... that's insane.  And that's what's happening today in our country.


But it's not a household.

Under your example, taxes should have been raised, further slowly an economy only slowly recovering from a recession, and a jobless one at that, throwing even more people out of work, decreasing tax revenue further and increasing unemployment claims. OK, can't do that.

So cut spending--OK, on what? Much as I'd like to see us out of Afghanistan and Iraq, just packing up and leaving them to the mess isn't a great idea. Medicaid and Social Security are helping to solve a problem we used to have and don't want back. And while I may not like the spending, stimulus money to help the economy during a time when we can no longer use monetary policy (as interest rates are already so low) short term is a reasonable--and most economists argue necessary--approach to getting the economy growing and employing again--in turn raising revenue again.

Addressing health care is an important part of this. It's an ever growing cycle we keep ignoring, and it's an ever growing financial drain on households and businesses, small businesses in particular. Fixing it addresses the structural problem.

Your household example is also simplistic even for a household. If Mom and Dad already work every waking hour, how are they going to increase their income? If they or the children are ill or injured, what about then, especially if the care is expensive and keeps them from working? What if there are no jobs? What if the new jobs pay a fraction of the old ones? What if costs continually rise while they work their asses off? What if their taxes rise will they're doing that? What if the programs they depend on are abruptly cut? Life isn't so cut and dry, Steven.

Bush had a plan that called for ever more expenditures leading to a financial crisis. Such a crisis doesn't disappear by sprinkling magic Obama powder on it or by sacrificing a lamb in joint session of Congress.

Now, at least we have a plan to reverse this spending, as the figures I quoted demonstrate in part. And over the next four months, as is already starting to happen, new orders will force business, already with low inventories, to hire to fill orders again. We're already over the recession; we'll then gradually get over the job slump and be back to work--this time wiser, I hope, those households setting money aside for trouble and for the future as best they can.

If things were so simple, those unemployed would just go get jobs. Lazy fuckers. Oh.....what jobs?

Yes, you and I would search out needs and create opportunities. We're also experienced professionals. Let's not pretend that always easy.

Yup, we're spending too much money. And changing that is already underway.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 267
RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions - 3/5/2010 8:29:21 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

Its not my job to do your research...I read the federalist...now why don't YOU read them....



I ask you this question:
quote:

Cucky:
You rail on extensively against socialist and communist. Those words are tossed about quite freely and sometimes the meanings get blured.
Perhaps,for the sake of this discussion, you might furnish us with your definition of communist and socialist?
And you launch into a two page rant of unsubstanitated rhetoric.
If you cannot answer the question at least be ethical enough to say I do not know.
If you wish to be taken seriously then it is incumbant on you to let us know the meaning of the words you use with such vituperous intent.


There is nothing in this question that mentions the Federalist Papers. I am asking you for some simple common ground for us to have a discussion.

(in reply to cuckyman)
Profile   Post #: 268
RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions - 3/5/2010 8:44:05 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

Just a freedom loving man and if that makes me evil in your eyes, so fucking be it....but you had better accept the fact that there are MILLIONS of us, so deal with it there knowitall.......

You are a freedom loving man who went to Viet nam and made an effort to deprive those poeple of freedom. How interesting.

(in reply to cuckyman)
Profile   Post #: 269
RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions - 3/5/2010 8:55:09 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

my county (Oakaloosa) voted 63% against Obama...so yeah, there are LOTS of us that agree with everyword I write...don't believe it, just come on down and run that lib shit in a bar and see how fast you are run out of here....


The constitution of my country guarantees freedom of speech.
It would appear that you are in favor of a fascist dictatorship where only your point of view is allowed.

(in reply to cuckyman)
Profile   Post #: 270
RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions - 3/6/2010 7:25:06 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

CBO: $10 trillion jump in debt under Obama budget

March 5, 2010: 6:13 PM ET


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- If President Obama's 2011 budget were put into effect as proposed, the U.S. federal government would add an estimated $9.8 trillion to the country's accrued debt over the next decade, according to a preliminary analysis from the Congressional Budget Office.

Of that amount, an estimated $5.6 trillion will be in interest alone.

By 2020, the agency estimates debt held by the public would reach $20.3 trillion, or 90% of GDP. That's up from 53% of GDP in 2009.
Research done by economists Kenneth Rogoff and Carmen Reinhart has shown that such high levels of debt can cause a drag on economic growth.
The CBO cited two big contributors to the jump in debt.


One is the president's proposal to extend the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts for the majority of Americans. The other is the proposal to protect middle- and upper-middle-income families from having to pay the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT).


Together those proposals would cost $3 trillion between 2011 and 2020.

"It points out the unwillingness of the administration to raise the revenues to pay for the size of government being proposed," said Robert Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition, a deficit watchdog group.

If Congress doesn't act, all of the Bush tax cuts are slated to expire at the end of this year and there will be no protection from the AMT.

But current law is not politically realistic, many say. That's why the administration prefers to compare the cost of its proposals to what lawmakers are likely to do -- namely, extend tax cuts and fix the AMT.


Hence, the White House Budget Office estimates that under the president's proposals, $8.5 trillion would be added to the country's accrued debt over the next decade, or $1.3 trillion less than the CBO estimate.

Either scenario is unsustainable, Bixby said.


http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/05/news/economy/cbo_obama_budget/



There's your word for today, too - "unsustainable".

Unsustainable: a polite way for media outlets which are friendly towards Obama (such as CNN) to say that under Obama's foreseeable budgets, Americans are totally screwed.




quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

get it right o Obama mouth.... Obama has TRIPLED the deficits run up by Bush...he is the new leader in the clubhouse by a MILE.....


No he hasn't.
Budget of the United States Government: Main Page




_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 271
RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions - 3/7/2010 2:09:00 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
Well, Steven claimed that Bunning was blocking it without funding for it. But under the Republican administration, Bunning didn't hesitate to vote in favor of cutting revenues


Oh? When did he vote to cut revenues?


5/23/2003 H.R. 2 - revenue loss of $320 billion, plus increased expenses of $30 billion.
5/11/2006 H.R. 4297 - revenue loss $90 billion.


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 272
RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions - 3/7/2010 2:22:02 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
Re-read what I wrote: "huge deficits are bad. Economic depressions are also bad".

Generally, economists (at least those without ideological motives) agree that deficit spending should be anticyclical - you run up a deficit during a depression, you do not run up a deficit when the economy is running at its peak.

There is a difference between bad debt and good debt. Most everybody will tell you that a mortgage is good debt. A college education is good debt. Buying a business is good debt. Credit card debt is bad debt - even though the mortgage balance may be much higher than the credit card balance.

It's no different for the national debt. Debt incurred to rebuild the economy, to repair collapsing bridges (in Minnesota and elsewhere) is good debt.

We do have a problem with the bad debt. What we are now taking on is good debt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
You're not making any sense. Are you against these record deficits, or not?

Because it seems like you're trying to have it  both ways.
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

Congress - including Senator Bunning - allowed "pay as you go" to expire in 2002. And Bunning actually voted against Pay as you go this time around, too, in January 2010. By the logic you ascribe to Bunning, Senators should only vote to reduce the deficit for a month or so after a pay-as-you-go law goes into effect.

Huge deficits are bad. Economic depressions are also bad. Bush ran up the deficit during a time of plenty - that's the difference.


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 273
Page:   <<   < prev  10 11 12 13 [14]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Lone senator blocks unemployment benefit extensions Page: <<   < prev  10 11 12 13 [14]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.063