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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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The thing- is I look at many points of view. Especially non-mainstream view.

My life is pretty good- despite me ranting. It really is.

I do not think you realize how much fear you try to stir up and how negative it seems when you have a dozen conspiracy threads going at any particular moment in time... you can't blame people for thinking that you might be one of those types that moves off to join a militia based upon the word of God

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My life is pretty good. There is no need for me to join any type of group. but then I live in an area which for the most part- people and govt mind their own business. - tho when they burn down Harrisburg- I am sure we will close the road down to prevent the mobs from coming north. good fences make good neighbors.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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ORIGINAL: susie

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

He is confusing religion with American citizenship...

His problem is too much Alex Jones

www.prisonplanet.com

That site will rot an uninformed mind

Just took a quick look at the site and no no no not something I am going back to. Started to read the piece about cancer treatments and got so mad had to shut it off.

I used to read it on occasion just to be informed about what people were making of laws, etc, a few years ago... intellectual curiosity after talking to people who read it. I am convinced that sites like Prison Planet exist because they stir up fear. Anything that promotes fear is wrong. We were not intended to live in fear. There is a difference between informing yourself and empowering yourself, and filling yourself with garbage with no answer. Those folks that read that crap are completely disempowered, and that makes me mad because no one should live like that, in fear of everything. The only thing that they are told to do on sites like that is to "spread the word" and to "wake people up", in other words to spread fear....

I have no use for it... I always say, "fine, you have shown me the problem, now lets come up with solutions together, or just shut the fuck up"... and by solutions I do not mean roaming the countryside searching for FEMA (concentration) camps.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

they will come and get your silver and gold, simon legree (or silas marner) as the case may be.

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I agree that there needs to be more solutions.

Normal channels to that- tho are void- throw in the lawyer loblliests. the system is broke- there is no rule of law. particularly in the past 10 years.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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My life is pretty good. There is no need for me to join any type of group. but then I live in an area which for the most part- people and govt mind their own business. - tho when they burn down Harrisburg- I am sure we will close the road down to prevent the mobs from coming north. good fences make good neighbors.

I wish those fences could keep the smoke away too

Unfortunately they can't....

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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I believe that people will not learn how to respect one another's private space through "nanny laws" that attempt to compel good manners. I also think that, if someone doesn't want to smell cigarette smoke when they're out in public, they're welcome to choose their venues accordingly, as long as, if -I- want to have a cigarette while I'm out in public, I have the option of having a place where =I= can do so as well.

The anti smoking laws have been extremely successful in this state in regulating clean air in public buildings.. which I am forever grateful for.

I suppose you are for "separate yet equal" even though when people are allowed to smoke indoors legally, in my experience establishments try to create smoking and nonsmoking "areas", which do not translate to clean air... so basically you want to tread on people's goodwill toward one another, and it only takes a few assholes to spoil that.

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Actually I think that the taxes levied on smokers are unjust, which is why eliminating ciggies is the best alternative to taxing people for smoking...

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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I agree that there needs to be more solutions.

Normal channels to that- tho are void- throw in the lawyer loblliests. the system is broke- there is no rule of law. particularly in the past 10 years.

I look at what organizations like the ACLU do, and Citizens for the American Way... and I just have to disagree with you... there are people with solutions, but they are demonized... they work through the law to get justice...They find solutions...

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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If someone has a problem with smoke, then maybe they shouldn't get a job where people smoke. I think it should be up to the owner of the bar or restaurant. If they want smoking then they have to deal with the fact that some people might go elsewhere because of it. If they want it non-smoking, same thing.

So working stiffs now have to work around unnecessary environmental pollution or be unemployed. What a choice! All those people who do not smoke must put up with it for 8 hours a day because other people are selfish pricks,.... gotcha! I mean it isn't like they can't get a table outdoors and smoke, or can't wait until they leave the mall to smoke, etc...


Like I said.. I love California... and for the smoking ban alone it is lovely to live here.

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I didn't mention the right at all:

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I'm a bit surprised that so little has been said about tobacco taxes in this thread. Given that most of the "How dare you evil liberals try to stop me from smoking in public!" stuff is coming from people who lean to the right (I get the impression that Termy's a libertarian, to pick one example, and apologise if I have that wrong), I'd have thought they'd be a lot more annoyed about the taxes they're paying for their fags.

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Actually, Julia, no... what I would prefer is for the COMPANY to tell me that I can't smoke in the building, or for the restaurant owner to tell me that I can't smoke in hir restaurant/pub/club/whatever... What I -resent-, and I resent it with every inch of my being, is the whole idea that we need 'nanny laws', either at a state or federal level, to enforce what should be able to be handled on an individual establishment level--or heck, if we had any -manners- left, which could be handled by getting up and going over to Mr. Smoker (or having one's Keeper/Lover/Whatever do so if one wasn't inclined to do so oneself) and saying "Gee, Mr... would you mind putting out your cigarette right now, since it's making it difficult for me to breathe." Heck, I -still- have to have conversations like that with the women who sit down next to me doused in a full bottle of Red Door or Chanel and the men who think wearing 5 different products full of Axe really -does- make them sexy (PS: it doesn't).

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Obviously, the non-smoking contingent has a lot to say -- so instead of cramming their philosophies down everyone's throats, why not just get out there and convince the restauranteurs, club owners, and employers that y'all need smoke-free space. Frankly, most companies had already begun restricting smoking indoors at work YEARS before these laws came into being. A little bit of patience and persistence could have avoided the whole issue of restriction of personal rights by the government... but... oh, wait, you've said yourself here:

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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If someone has a problem with smoke, then maybe they shouldn't get a job where people smoke. I think it should be up to the owner of the bar or restaurant. If they want smoking then they have to deal with the fact that some people might go elsewhere because of it. If they want it non-smoking, same thing.

So working stiffs now have to work around unnecessary environmental pollution or be unemployed. What a choice! All those people who do not smoke must put up with it for 8 hours a day because other people are selfish pricks,.... gotcha! I mean it isn't like they can't get a table outdoors and smoke, or can't wait until they leave the mall to smoke, etc...


Like I said.. I love California... and for the smoking ban alone it is lovely to live here.

Well everyone keeps telling me that the majority of the people want non-smoking establishments, so it stands to reason that the majority of the restaurants and bars would be non-smoking. The individual would have the choice of where they work.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Does the individual have a choice of where to work? One is lucky to get any sort of job right now

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Does the individual have a choice of where to work? One is lucky to get any sort of job right now

Again, not quite accurate here (though it may be in California). Service-sector jobs (including wait-staff in many of our high-end restaurants) are going -begging-. Jobs in the housing market, construction, and manufacturing are down, but jobs in the service industries are actually holding their own or are growing markets.

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Does the individual have a choice of where to work? One is lucky to get any sort of job right now

Again, not quite accurate here (though it may be in California). Service-sector jobs (including wait-staff in many of our high-end restaurants) are going -begging-. Jobs in the housing market, construction, and manufacturing are down, but jobs in the service industries are actually holding their own or are growing markets.

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ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Again we come back to the duty on the landlord to provide safe working conditions and use safe working practices.

If it is unacceptable to oblige the use of respiratory protective equipment, then the smoking must stop. Similarly though, if it is unacceptable for bar staff to wear riot gear in order to protect themselves from intoxicated, violent customers, the drinking must also stop. Otherwise, the smoking ban is a matter of public opinion rather than health and safety at work, with here a variation in the understanding of the nature of the risks according to wider public support for getting pissed as a rat.

E