RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It.

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AbacusTsukei -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 1:12:32 PM)
Ah, I forgot to put my favorites up here, didn't I? I've played lots of 3.5 and 4E (and helped with the 3.5 Rules Compendium), and I like 'em pretty well for what they do. I'm a huge Star Wars SAGA fan, though, and also have a good time with Shadowrun, Savage Worlds (VioletGray: Deadlands forever!), and Mutants and Masterminds. I'm also really getting into nWoD: after avoiding oWoD like the plague, I'm glad to see they've fixed it. Now, on the topic of 4E: I like 4E, but it's really hard for me to argue about its computer-game tendencies when you compare the Assassin class side-by-side with the Assassin from Diablo II: LoD. That said? I'm not certain that being like an MMO is a bad thing, mostly because I've never really heard anyone articulate why.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 1:13:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BrokenSaint Torg This! This is the game whose name I couldn't remember. This one could have been so much fun. I'm surprised it didn't take off more.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 1:16:57 PM)
I rather enjoy D&D4E if I'm doing tactical stuff. For more story-based stuff, the newer WoD rules make a pretty good basis for an engine, which I can slap whatever story I want on top of.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 1:26:03 PM)
nWoD *SUCKS* in so many ways I don't even know where to begin. [:'(] The system is completely broken. [>:] oWoD was so much better. Even so, the d10 system still outclasses the d20 system any day of the week and twice on Sundays. As much as I love AD&D, if I have to choose, I'll pick the d10 system every time.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 1:30:28 PM)
Currently playing Evony. However, I have been playing WoW off and on since the day it came out. After getting all my teir 9 gear for a couple of lvl 80 toons, I shut the accounts (x3) down like I did after BC x-pac. Will reopen accounts when Cataclysm x-pac comes out. MMO & RPGs (and associated x-pacs) World Of Warcraft Evony Sacred Diablo Starcraft FreeSpace I own a business and I used my servers and bandwidth to host FPS & private RPG games for many years (1998-2007) like Starcraft, Warcraft II, Quake, Quake Arena, HalfLife, Rainbow 6 and Unreal Tourney. I designed special Quake arenas and model skins and a series of maps for Warcraft III based on the Gor Books. The ‘Raider of Gor’ map was one of the more popular downloads at file planet at one time. . I was a gamers forum moderator, beta tester and lead Team OMW, an independent dev team for a Warcraft addon. Gaming, shark fishing and thinking if new public BDSM scenes were my ‘hobby’ until recently. I took all of them to the extreme.

AbacusTsukei -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 1:30:52 PM)
Uhm... I think you have that backwards, SAL. oWoD was completely broken; nWoD is tons better.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 1:35:51 PM)
Nope, I stand by my assessment. I started playing V:tM the year it came out and Kansas City was one of the play-test sites for the LARP version. Requiem introduced the new system and...well, let's just say a lot of people quit rather than use the new system. In fact, so many people quit, that WW had to reinstate oWoD as a Sanctioned Play event in the Camarilla because they were losing more customers than they were gaining with the new system.

Ialdabaoth -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 1:37:56 PM)
Well, I'd rather avoid Holy Wars here, but to be honest, there isn't that much difference in system between oWoD and nWoD. The only real differences are setting, and system-to-setting interface - and for both of those, the nWoD's "toolkit" approach allows me to craft a custom system-to-setting interface for whatever setting I want. I vastly prefer nWoD's Social and Mental attribute system to oWoD's, since the Physical/Social/Mental sets correspond to each other in neat ways. Even with nWoD, I do a lot of houserule-hacking to get to where I want - at this point, the system I typically use is somewhere between nWoD, Shadowrun 4E, and Weapons of the Gods. It's wacky.

AbacusTsukei -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 1:40:37 PM)
That just means that a lot of people don't understand game mechanics/are impulsively resistant to change. (Or, to be fair, they were pissed off that White Wolf made such a big deal about bringing everything to a close and then turned around and released a new game. Even I think that was a dick move.) nWoD, both mechanically and storywise, is just about strictly superior to oWoD in terms of both balance and elegance.

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 1:41:51 PM)
Your Frankenstein's monster of a system skeers me! [;)]

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 1:55:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AbacusTsukei That just means that a lot of people don't understand game mechanics/are impulsively resistant to change. nWoD, both mechanically and storywise, is just about strictly superior to oWoD in terms of both balance and elegance. Not really. Remember, we were some of the people who play tested the LARP and found all the places it was broken so they could (ostensibly) be fixed. If people who are accustomed to play testing are saying the new system is broken, it's probably broken. If they're saying it's broken enough that they refuse to play it (like I did) then it's definitely broken. Never mind the story line, which is so far gone it's unsavable. They completely ruined that and it just needs to be shot.

DarlingSavage -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 2:35:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subrob1967 quote: ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage My favorite RPG, I'll be the sexy woman at the bar near the sea port and he can be the sailor, just in port after having been at sea for 9 months on an all male ship. Yeah! Is your name Brandi? I'm looking to get back into AD&D, from what I read, 4th ed is like playing WoW. Maybe! It certainly would be for this occasion! AD&D? I believe they have medicine for that!

PapaBlue -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 4:14:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage AD&D? I believe they have medicine for that! Yes, the generic name for the medicine is BDSM. It helps you work out your adolescent power fulfillment fantasies with flesh and blood women instead of elven princesses on graph paper. [:)] But I'm not compliant with my meds, so sometimes I still prefer graph paper. [:D]

PapaBlue -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 4:22:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AbacusTsukei That just means that a lot of people don't understand game mechanics/are impulsively resistant to change. I don't have anything to say about WoD, but I generally agree with what I quoted. I have found that gamers tend to be incredibly conservative when it comes to the games they play- surprisingly so in my opinion. And if you try engage most gamers in a discussion of the importance of mechanics, they tend to evade you with something like "that's what house rules are for". If that works them, fine. It doesn't work for me. It's one of the reasons that I've switched to playing boardgames and miniature wargaming.

AbacusTsukei -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 4:43:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan Not really. Remember, we were some of the people who play tested the LARP and found all the places it was broken so they could (ostensibly) be fixed. If people who are accustomed to play testing are saying the new system is broken, it's probably broken. If they're saying it's broken enough that they refuse to play it (like I did) then it's definitely broken. Never mind the story line, which is so far gone it's unsavable. They completely ruined that and it just needs to be shot. ...Oh, you're talking about the LARP? I have no idea about the LARP. I've never played it. I'm talking about the actual PnP system. The storyline was the single worst thing about oWoD. The fact that it's completely gone (with a new, better one in place) is cause for rejoicing.

thornhappy -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 5:09:37 PM)
Morrowind Oblivion For the oldest of the old school amongst us.... Adventure. Nothing beats playing Adventure on a Burroughs mainframe via a 300 baud acoustic modem, drawing up your own maps while you play. And I walked to school uphill, both ways!

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 5:52:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AbacusTsukei ...Oh, you're talking about the LARP? I have no idea about the LARP. I've never played it. I'm talking about the actual PnP system. Both, actually. The LARP rules are based on the TT rules. LARP always seems to highlight the magnitude of the broken parts. If something is broken in the TT rules, it's doubly broken in the LARP. World of Requiem is seriously broken. quote: The storyline was the single worst thing about oWoD. The fact that it's completely gone (with a new, better one in place) is cause for rejoicing. I couldn't disagree more. The focus shifted from personal story to power gaming. The new storyline needs to be drawn, quartered, and buried at a crossroads so it can never rise again. I know a lot of people love the new system. Most of them didn't play the old one, so they don't realize how much worse it is. The ones who played both and love the new system also seem to be the min-maxers. Definitely not what interests me. IMO, it's pretty telling that WW announced at ICC 2009 they're going back to letting the Camarilla decide what to play instead of forcing Requiem down our throats. They even acknowledge that they know a lot of people will return to the oWoD system. (Gee, ya think?) WW has a habit of ignoring what's broken, breaking what works just fine, "fixing" it by taking out the parts that do work and breaking other things, and then pretending they're doing us all a favor when they "allow" us to go back to what was working just fine after we finally bitch long and hard enough. They've gotten as bad as the asshats at WotC.

glitch -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 6:55:03 PM)
Lets see... Tabletop D&D- from AD&D through 4th ed. So far 3.0/3.5 is my preferred system to tinker with. Unearthed Arcana and Arcana Evolved- two very good games that I wish I could play more of. D20 Modern- I liked the class design, but it took some getting used to from playing D&D for so long. White Wolf- NWoD and OWoD. I enjoy them both for different reasons and for now I'll leave it at that. [;)] Exalted, both 1st and 2nd ed. Shadowrun- from 2nd ed to 4th ed. I miss my decker. L5R- Interesting system, I wished I played more though. Call of Cthulu- This one gets better the more warped the folks you're playing it with are. Dark Heresy- It's an interesting game to run, but you have to know way too much lore to truly enjoy. Star Wars- Again, another good game to play, but it still requires a lot of lore to be known. Computer/Console WoW- Lather, rinse, repeat. The Elder Scrolls- Played from Daggerfall to Oblivion and enjoyed them all. Neverwinter Nights (and NWN 2)- Another good sandbox game. Final Fantasy (insert number here)- I've played most of them and enjoyed about all of the ones i've played. Magic the Gathering- The game came out in the early/mid 90's. It was fun for the twist on the MtG card game. LARP Vampire the Masquerade: Not bad, occasionally gets a little boring, but I enjoy the dynamic nature of NWoD. Vampire the Requiem: Not bad, but tends to get a little boring for lore reasons. Two definite things I've found over the years is that it takes a good group to RP with and the same group might not be as great in a different genre.

AbacusTsukei -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 8:56:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan Both, actually. The LARP rules are based on the TT rules. LARP always seems to highlight the magnitude of the broken parts. If something is broken in the TT rules, it's doubly broken in the LARP. World of Requiem is seriously broken. Sigh I really didn't want to do this, because everyone's probably going to find it boring as shit, but: World of Darkness in its entirety* has four merits and a bloodline that are overpowered. That's it. Everything else is either in line with expected power levels or below them. VtM has Celerity, for crying out loud. Also katanas. The exception is Mage, which -- if you're not really careful as an ST about what you allow people to do with improvised arcana -- can get messy very quickly. quote:* I couldn't disagree more. The focus shifted from personal story to power gaming. The new storyline needs to be drawn, quartered, and buried at a crossroads so it can never rise again. Personal story? What, at all, ever, was focused on personal story in oWoD? Vamp was all about the various Covenants and their beefs while the ancients battled for power and the clans squabbled. Player characters always took back seat to the byzantine storyline, which means that PC actions are completely inconsequential. A really good illustration? Try running a party with PCs of different covenants without 1) deviating from canon or 2) PvP TPK. It's impossible. That is the exact opposite of the truth in nWoD: not only does the storyline not force the ST into lockstep with established canon to the point where he can, y'know, write his own plots, the lore is more than lenient enough that a mixed coterie can actually work together. quote: IMO, it's pretty telling that WW announced at ICC 2009 they're going back to letting the Camarilla decide what to play instead of forcing Requiem down our throats. They even acknowledge that they know a lot of people will return to the oWoD system. (Gee, ya think?) WW has a habit of ignoring what's broken, breaking what works just fine, "fixing" it by taking out the parts that do work and breaking other things, and then pretending they're doing us all a favor when they "allow" us to go back to what was working just fine after we finally bitch long and hard enough. They've gotten as bad as the asshats at WotC. I didn't want to say this either, but: the Camarilla is not the be-all end-all of WW. In fact, the vast majority of WoD players I've met (myself included) deliberately avoid playing with Camarilla folks because they tend to be arrogant dickheads about how the game should be played. But that said? Take it from someone who's worked with them: no one, anywhere, is as bad as the people at WotC. (Exceptions: Gary Sarli and Rodney Thompson, both of whom are gentlemen and scholars.)

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Role-Playing Games. There, I Said It. (3/1/2010 11:04:47 PM)
Meh. If people are bored, it's not our problem. They can chime in about their interests or not. It's not too often I get to discuss the finer points of gaming on a BDSM board. I dunno about you, but I'm enjoying the novelty. quote: ORIGINAL: AbacusTsukei World of Darkness in its entirety* has four merits and a bloodline that are overpowered. That's it. Everything else is either in line with expected power levels or below them. VtM has Celerity, for crying out loud. Also katanas. Oh yeah, Mage is nuts and always has been. I avoided that game like the plague. Entropy Mages are just a little too close to my personal spirituality for my comfort. I can't play with something that personal, if that makes sense. My favorite was Changeling: the Dreaming. It had the potential to be as overpowering as Mage if done wrong. The trick is to get a good ST who focuses more on story and character development then challenges. When I was AST - Changeling for my chapters (I did the job in two different cities), I always concentrated on characters. At one regional event, we had a Changeling/Garou crossover that was awesome. There were very few challenges and almost all RP. Good stuff. quote: Personal story? What, at all, ever, was focused on personal story in oWoD? Vamp was all about the various Covenants and their beefs while the ancients battled for power and the clans squabbled. Player characters always took back seat to the byzantine storyline, which means that PC actions are completely inconsequential. A really good illustration? Try running a party with PCs of different covenants without 1) deviating from canon or 2) PvP TPK. It's impossible. That is the exact opposite of the truth in nWoD: not only does the storyline not force the ST into lockstep with established canon to the point where he can, y'know, write his own plots, the lore is more than lenient enough that a mixed coterie can actually work together. OMG, seriously? In my three years of LARP, I played a Malkavian and a Ventrue ghoul. It was always about my personal story. In the time I played my Malkie, I had in my coterie 3 Setites, 3 other Malks, a Toreador, a Gangrel, and a Brujah. Not all at once, mind you. The make up shifted and changed over time but we had no problems working together. Of course, it helped that my character had multiple personalities. I started as a Camarilla character, but was working on crossing over to the Sabbat. My character's personal story put her on the fast track to Path of Night. I never played at the national level because I lacked the time to devote to it, but one of my coterie members did and she had a lasting effect on the national game. I don't remember what the make up was for our TT games. It's just been too long; but I know we had a Setite and a couple of Malks in the mix. quote: I didn't want to say this either, but: the Camarilla is not the be-all end-all of WW. In fact, the vast majority of WoD players I've met (myself included) deliberately avoid playing with Camarilla folks because they tend to be arrogant dickheads about how the game should be played. I won't argue the point. Some of them are, but a lot of them aren't. I met my husband through the Cam and he's as close to perfect (for me) as I could ever hope for. I've also made a lot of friends there. Like most sweeping generalizations, your statement is valid in some cases, but won't apply to everyone. It's really a matter of preference. quote: Take it from someone who's worked with them: no one, anywhere, is as bad as the people at WotC. (Exceptions: Gary Sarli and Rodney Thompson, both of whom are gentlemen and scholars.) I'll buy that for a dollar. [;)]

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