RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (Full Version)

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RavenMuse -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 12:18:26 AM)

I don't much give a damn if you are white, black, brown, yellow or green with purple spots. If I'm not looking at you as someone I might collar then I'm not much interested in your apperance at all, just your personality and wether you are interesting to know.

If someone is being looked at as a potential sub, given I'm not looking for service only, then apperance is a minor factor and I guess colour matters a little there.... I only say that because I have found I see a smaller proportion of blacks that I find physicaly attractive than I do of white, asian or oriental, just what pushes my personal buttons.

Underneath the skin it is more the culture someone was raised in than what race they are that has the bigger bearing on their personality (for instance I don't tend to get on with many folks raised in Liverpool for some reason, which I presume must me cultural and specific to that city)........ even then there are exceptions 



Level -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 3:03:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoNotDisobey


Maybe I'm naive... but have others noticed that people of one kink are less tolerant of others than the majority of vanilla people (excluding the obvious right wing / religious nutters, of course)? And if so, why???


Or the left-wing political correctness nutters, don't forget them.
 
Other than that, I agree a great deal with the rest of your post.
 
Level



meatcleaver -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 3:26:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoNotDisobey

There are many lifestyles I would not choose to live, but in choosing to live outside what most would see as the mainstream I have learned the importance of tolerance. Not that I wasn't before, but from passive "I don't care what others do" tolerance, I've become what I suppose you'd call a "tolerance activist" [8|]
 
Maybe I'm naive... but have others noticed that people of one kink are less tolerant of others than the majority of vanilla people (excluding the obvious right wing / religious nutters, of course)? And if so, why???


Tolerance is accepting what one doesn't like or care for not acceptance of difference, otherwise you wouldn't be tolerating it.

I don't find the life style any more tolerant than any other walk of life. You only have to read the threads on this site. There is a lot of intolerance until someone asks a direct question about intolerance and then everybody lines up to say they are not intolerant.

Race is an issue in western societies and to deny that is to bury ones head in the sand. I've seen a lot of what I call exotic tourism in the life style. Meaning people wanting to hook up with people of a minority or shunning people from a minority. Both aspects are racist, both can be masked and both can be obvious.

Have I hooked up with someone from a different race because they were a different race? It's certainly been part of my motives one or twice, though I like to think myself above it but I'm not. Though I'm not going to give all my views because I'll probably be willfully misunderstood and attacked but I'm not as sanctimonious as a lot of people here who are perfect.

Race is an issue and will stay an issue in western society for quite some time to come. You can't be socialised into racism like we all are and suddenly discard it. We can intellectually reject racism but it will remain a part of us we have to fight against. I don't believe anyone when they say they are color blind because I don't believe anyone is.



fldrkhorse -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 3:33:27 AM)

We are a society where like seeks like. We seek comfort in like
because it is all we know. This is why the 60's were so radical and threatened society because these kids crossed cultural and economical boundaries and blended into one culture.

While in south Florida (for example) I found very few interacial couples however when I lived in D.C., there are many. It's not necesarily there are fewer minorities in this lifestyle, but you'll find them involved in groups generally comprised of other minorities. It has nothing to do with a picture in the profile, people tend to gravitate where they've been conditioned to feel comfortable in thier lifetime. Even though there are many feel good PC replies here, we are still a very segregated society.



RubberWitch -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 3:33:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

I don't much give a damn if you are white, black, brown, yellow or green with purple spots.


...hmmmm

would love a sub with green skin and purple spots. 'specially a lizardine one

J



Badkitty0810 -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 4:07:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

If someone is being looked at as a potential sub, given I'm not looking for service only, then apperance is a minor factor and I guess colour matters a little there.... I only say that because I have found I see a smaller proportion of blacks that I find physicaly attractive than I do of white, asian or oriental, just what pushes my personal buttons.



I have to agree with RavenMuse's above statement. I live in the States and was raised in a very WASP household. The majority of my social interactions were with people who were of western European descent. However, my mom attended university and I would accompany her to classes during the summer and on school vacations. It was there that I was able to broaden my cultural horizons. I met peopole from all over the world and was exposed to many different cultures. It was there that I met my first black person from Africa.

Still, like does seek like. I still find myself more attracted to those who are Causasion, Asian, Oriental or Hispanic than I do to those who are black. Though honestly, there have been a quite a few black women and men to whom I have been very attracted. I'm sure that there are several folks who don't find me attractive for various reasons, regardless of color. I guess the short of it is, it's not so much the color of your skin, but how you present yourself that matters most.



ProtagonistLily -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 4:12:43 AM)

quote:

without seeing it..( not blind just trusting in the general nature of a person) events happened whereby so many people viewed my old profile and responded to something with so much negitivity and venom I was left reeling with wonder and surprise...then someone wrote me and said...it's because you're black...my response was...what's that got to do with anything....reality set in when I had explained to me that even though we may share the same lifestyle...we're still subject to all that we've learned..seen..or feel about the races....I questioned this in my local community and with great surprise got a very similar answer....looking around I saw only two blacks in the group (me being one of them)...I do know there's another group within my traveling distance that's comprised on the other end of the scale...my choice was a matter of distance not the color make-up of the group...so that thought never came to me...my opinion was people know you as a person and they take you as you are...a Dominant is that...a Submissive is that period...I never saw a color just a submissive....


Take what people here say to you with a grain of salt. Vi Johnson's black too and I would suspect if you mentioned that name to your bashers they wouldn't have a clue who you were talking about, which goes to show that most people around here don't have a clue about leather history.

If you are who you say you are and have been practicing this lifestyle since the world was dust, what do you really care what some random person says about you.

They've said all kinds of things about me and I couldn't care less ~shrug~

Kassie



cloudboy -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 7:31:51 AM)

quote:

Tolerance is accepting what one doesn't like or care for not acceptance of difference, otherwise you wouldn't be tolerating it.


Good point.



proudsub -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 8:49:41 AM)

This is a little off topic but has to do with prejudice. My daughter recently married a black man who had lived in the south all his life and never faced any bigotry. When they moved to a southwestern state he ran into all kinds of problems. One was humiliation in a public meeting by his boss. I don't know the details but think he was called the n word. It was bad enough where he contacted a lawyer and got a nice settlement because they knew they would lose in court. It's hard to believe that crap is still going on, and this has affected him deeply.



Slipstreme -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 8:52:36 AM)

Nay race doesnt mean a thing to me. In fact seeing a black, asian, hispanic, native american, face on the CM boards is refreshing because I like the multicultural deal.

When I first started my journey into BDSM I was under the impression, considering most of the information I got was from white people, that black people didn't care much for it because of remaining negativity about slavery. However, finding that there are blacks into it helped wash away that misconception.

There is a resource more for the african american community www.BlackBEATInc.org if you would like to look into it.



kisshou -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 9:00:31 AM)

Master Hells Fury!!

I thought the weird thing about you is that you are actively living poly not that you are black. (bends over for a swat)

I liked it beter with your picture up but that is cuz I think you are handsome.

Either way I am glad to see you posting again and hopefully there will be some more action in the poly forum



GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 10:28:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

I liked it beter with your picture up but that is cuz I think you are handsome.



I recall your photo also, and I saw a very handsome man.
That said, I may be talking out of turn here, but I have been personally hurt because a good friend of Mine left the site (temporarily) because she received a very nasty email with a racial epthet.  Now she did not share if this was the straw that broke the camel's back, or if this one a one shot deal that so shocked her she felt she needed to take a break for a time.  She is very classy so she wouldn't make a habit of mentioning if this was even a semi-regular thing in her email.   I miss having her here.  Alot! 
The email, to My surprise (and disgust) was from a regular poster on these boards who would profess to have no bigotry in him at all.  I know different now!  Lip service is just that.  Eventually, true colors will come to the fore. *No pun intended*
Put your photo back up, and welcome back.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 12:03:42 PM)

quote:

What caught My attention in this thread was wytchywoman's comment about this "community" (BDSMers generally, not CM, as she explained) liking to pretend to be accepting and open-minded.
 
What increasingly disturbs Me is the intolerance shown by people of one "kink" to those of another. I have been abused (and reported to Yahoo, no less!) for discussing BDSM in a general "anything goes" sex chat room... the complaints were two cross dressers who, in the same room, were seeking anal sex with males. Equally, I've been at swingers clubs where a transsexual who wasn't particularly passable was ridiculed and made to feel unwelcome. And that's just two of many, many examples.


A "swinger's club" may not be the ideal place for a transsexual. But a swinger's club is not usually also a BDSM club. Having attended both, there is much more openness at a BDSM club.

Equating what happens in a BDSM chat-room and what goes on at a club is a big fault in your assumption. People are more intolerant here and on internet sites in general, against their self generated "dogma" than the Taliban is about radical Islam. Nothing that you see here represents actual person to person or persons to persons interaction. Bravery disappears when the impersonal and hidden identity of the internet is removed. This medium is a haven for frauds. In fact, it's prudent to assume all are, until/unless you've met them. Our experience is after you meet them sometimes it proves they're a fraud, but I digress.

Fury's problem and experiences are real but he should consider the medium. This shouldn't be the only source for those seeking contact. It's a great tool, but should be one of many. That brings up a bigger problem.

Coming from NYC and migrating to LA, I've never had to search for a lifestyle partner in a place like Myrtle Beach, where Fury hails. Played golf there, but beyond that masochistic experience, I don't know what other resources he has. In NYC, and in LA, color is much less a factor. I won't say it isn't a factor, because being in the lifestyle doesn't exclude people who are prejudice, but it won't get in your way. Using those two cities as an example, skin color in lifestyle groups comes into play similarly to body type, sex, or hair color; there are preferences. Treated as such and nothing more.

Our favorite club is very integrated owned/operated by an integrated couple. Why does a statement such as that always sound like; "some of my best friends are black"? Well, they are! But they aren't black friends they are just friends! Some are vanilla, some double fudge moose track rocky road.

There may be many places in the US where they are still fighting the civil war. No place on our list of potential places to vacation. In many of those I, as a hard to mistake NY Italian, would be subject to many of the same prejudices. beth, being one of the 'whitest white people' (she's practically clear) I've ever seen; would have no problem.

As John Warren pointed out in anther thread regarding intolerance, the best tactic is to laugh at their ignorance.

Fury - Don't let the bastards think they've gotten to you. You didn't lose out on any opportunity of value. In effect, they've helped you eliminate the undesirable and saved you some time.



ExistentialSteel -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 1:32:46 PM)

Prejudice is wrong and because you asked not to hear the standard disclaimers, I won’t go that way except to say I spent 20 years in the military and did come to view others in objective ways.

Race in relations, especially D/s, has many sides to it. There are those who prefer a certain race and that could be called racism, I suppose, but why not just call it a physical characteristic preference that does not reflect on racial valuation? It could be that someone prefers only those of their own race or it could be that they prefer those of a certain other race. Some find things about other races important or attractive.

I remember that I used to actively seek Asian women at one time. It was not that I didn’t like white or black women, but, for some reason, I found Asian women sexy. A certain blue eyed woman happens to be my desire now and she, of course, is not Asian, so that tells me that we all can change depending on certain things. Now if you base your dislike of someone of another race who you barely know on mistaken beliefs of racial inferiority, you are out in left field with the bigots.

To your point, since you are black, the history of black suppression in the U.S. contributes to race playing a factor in D/s also. Many black sub women find it exciting in a taboo way to submit to white Doms, many white sub women find it exciting to submit to black Doms because social mores in this country, especially the south, said you shouldn’t do that.

If you look at profiles, you will notice many requests for certain races from whites, blacks, Asians and others that you have to know that race is still a factor in 2006.  I think that by you being a black Dom as many doors would open for you as would close in D/s because of the unique aspects of submission, but I really don’t know since I’ve never been in your shoes and can’t judge you based on race.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 1:37:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily
which goes to show that most people around here don't have a clue about leather history.

We have a history?  Wasn't the first flogger invented online?



proudsub -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 1:51:26 PM)

quote:

I spent 20 years in the military and did come to view others in objective ways.


Speaking of the military, has anyone seen the movie "Proud". It's based on the book by Mary Pat Kelly called "Proudly We Served". It's about the first navy ship in WWII, the USS Mason, that had all white officers and an all black crew. It was the first time the navy gave meaningful jobs to blacks. My father was captain of that ship. For years he recommended the crew members all get letters of commnedation for some heroic actions they took, but the navy refused on racial grounds until 50 yrs later. I went to the ceremony where the survivors received their letters of commendation, it was very touching. Just thought i would throw that in here.[:)]



ExistentialSteel -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 2:23:50 PM)

Proudsub, that is a fantastic piece of history with a personal twist. Thanks for sharing.



proudsub -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 3:22:13 PM)

quote:

Proudsub, that is a fantastic piece of history with a personal twist. Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome. Both the book and the movie feature the crew members not the officers.  Here's the website for the movie.

http://www.proudthemovie.com/index.htm

And here's one for the book and story:
http://www.ussmason.org/1opt.html
If you go to this one then click on "the mason story" my dad's picture is on the 2nd page.[:)]

The sad thing is, i knew very little of this until after my dad passed away and i'm sorry he didn't live to see the letters of commendation given out. He seldom talked about his war experiences. My favorite line in the book is a  quote from a black crew member who said "W'ed follow him to hell and back". I get tears in my eyes everytime i read that. As you can see i love to talk about this, if anyone wants more info please email me, i don't want to hijack this thread.





enslavegirl -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 3:35:55 PM)

Master,

there will always be those who think in black and white. i am a white woman with half black kids. for the last 18 years i have been treated as a black woman. i have been ignorred, spat at, refused survice at business establishments, i could go on and on. with all that was said and done, i still held my head high, very proud of my children and where i was in this thing  Wwe all call life. i have noted throughout the years that the vanilla population as a whole are more or less discurtious , generally speaking. and in the lifestyle, again generally speaking, there are those more tolerant of the bdsm populous. now please keep in mind, kind Sir, there will be those who think in black and white within the lifestyle, but i feel , for the most part, that "most" think in colour. after all, when Wwe all are cut open and blood is poured out, are Wwe all not going to bleed "red" blood?. i have been in the medical field for over 22 years now, and to my knowledge and belief, i have as yet to meet a patient who bleeds purple or green.

a few months ago, i started chatting with a Master who, to me, was a quiet storm. strong in will but kind of heart. He is a very loving personality. it was i who had misgivings about telling Him about my "blackness". when i finally got my nerve up to cross that bridge, He quietly responded with something like a "thats nice" response. i was quite taken aback by His reaction to me, but i just let my feelings drift. weeks later, Wwe were in yet another heavy conversation, when He quietly mentioned He was an "other" race. i queried Him to please explain Himself. to my amazement, He explained to me He was a Man of colour. He couldnt call Himself an african american because He was canadian, so He used other. i never once looked at the race part of His bio. and to this day, what colour Oour skin is has nothing to do with the levels of intimacy between Uus. if one of Uus has had issue, it has been me, wondering how His family will accept me, He has been sweetly reassuring me we will be accepted into His home and family with the warmest of open loving arms.

please kind Sir, all i can say to You is; dont let the foolish tongue of a very unkind few jade You.

i am now very happily collared to this quiet storm, my Master

im just a wallflower here in CM, so this is just my slant on things

well wishes and god bless



SimplyV -> RE: Race...living the lifestyle with head buried in the sand (3/30/2006 3:56:05 PM)

I think there are many reasons people are uncomfortable with "race" in this lifestyle.  Most of it centered around ignorance and fear.

Has anyone watched HBO's "Black. White." ?  It touches on differences between white and black culture and ways people are treated, etc and so on.  The issues that they touch on in the show are small things but would be huge things in the right/wrong circumstances.  Putting some of those differences into a BDSM relationship could be downright scary if both parties aren't on the same page.

In this lifestyle, we are very tolerant of others who are different from us. While we would like to pretend that racism and prejudice is dead, it is not, nor will it be, until all ignorance and narrowminded-ness is dead.  And that means killing a lot of idiots.  (or maybe I've been reading too much of the Darwin Awards).

MstrFury, I agree with the others that you should put your picture back up, but that is up to you.  Personally, I don't come here for a persons color or looks or IQ. I come here to pick peoples minds, get ideas, share experiences, and broaden my horizons.  So welcome back to the forums!



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