What is a socialist? (Full Version)

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Brain -> What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 9:19:43 AM)

What is a socialist?

Socialists believe that the means of production should be owned collectively or by the government. There is no reason to believe Obama is a socialist. Uneducated conservatives who don't even know the real definition of the word are the only ones who think he's a socialist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
 
Socialism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization advocating either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources.[1][2][3] A more comprehensive definition of socialism is an economic system that has transcended commodity production and wage labor, where economic activity is carried out to maximize use-value as opposed to exchange-value and thus a corresponding change in social and economic relations, including the organization of economic institutions and resource allocation;[4] often implying advocacy for a method of compensation based on the amount of labor expended.[5]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
 



Moonhead -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 9:23:10 AM)

Oh, Christ. This one's going to be fun.



LadyEllen -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 9:25:25 AM)

Good idea MH - bringing the arch socialist into the equation should really get things nice and toasty.

E



Moonhead -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 9:35:57 AM)

[:D]
I was forgetting his gay communist mushroom cult, Ellen. A very good point.



Brain -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 1:23:28 PM)

It was a good thing John McCain didn't let himself get caught up in right-wing rhetoric. But I don't agree with him about, “Obama is governing from the left.” The problem with Obama and the Democrats is that they are governing from the right and not providing the change they promised. Obama and the Democrats need to pass healthcare reform pronto and then work on the other change he promised.

John McCain Refuses to Call Barack Obama a Socialist

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) was on NBC’s Meet the Press today and things got a little uncomfortable for him when moderator David Gregory asked McCain if he thought President Obama’s agenda was socialist. McCain would only say that, “this administration is governing from the left.” McCain would not label Obama a socialist.

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) was on NBC’s Meet the Press today and things got a little uncomfortable for him when moderator David Gregory asked McCain if he thought President Obama’s agenda was socialist. McCain would only say that, “this administration is governing from the left.” McCain would not label Obama a socialist.
 
One could see McCain’s obvious discomfort with the question. He didn’t want to answer it, because of his right wing primary challenger who happily labeling President Obama a socialist at every turn, McCain could not say that he knows that President Obama is not a socialist, so he stuck to the safe point that Obama governs from the left. It is debatable as to how far to left Obama is, but McCain stuck to the relatively safe statement, while dodging the socialist question.

McCain has already moved to the right in order to win reelection, but he will never have credibility with the right wing, because he won’t embrace their rhetoric and call Obama a socialist. If I was John McCain, and I saw the Republican Party moving as far to the right as it has, it might have looked like a great time to retire. McCain isn’t a maverick, but he isn’t a winger either. McCain is just a Republican, but in 2010 American conservatives are in no mood for regular Republicans.
 
http://www.politicususa.com/en/mccain-obama-asocialist
 


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Oh, Christ. This one's going to be fun.



LadyEllen -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 1:38:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

[:D]
I was forgetting his gay communist mushroom cult, Ellen. A very good point.


hey! its "Lady Ellen" or "your Ladyship" - the communist revolution hasnt happened yet you know!

E



Moonhead -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 2:04:11 PM)

Sweetie, you're lucky I'm not just calling you tovarisch...



LadyEllen -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 2:26:55 PM)

And whats so bad about varisching then? I find nothing more satisfying than to varisch, so just let me know and I'll be over asap after you call

E



Moonhead -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 3:42:28 PM)

[:D]



Fellow -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 5:12:40 PM)

quote:

Socialists believe that the means of production should be owned collectively or by the government.


This is not correct. The government ownership is called state capitalism. 
From your own link:
....socialism is an economic system that has transcended commodity production and wage labor, where economic activity is carried out to maximize use-value as opposed to exchange-value and thus a corresponding change in social and economic relations, including the organization of economic institutions and resource allocation;[4] often implying advocacy for a method of compensation based on the amount of labor extended....

Russia was mistakenly viewed as a communist country. In reality it was not. The communist Russia was very close to modern corporatist state (like USA). If you pointed on some property, and asked from a Russian who it belongs to he would reply: the state (in US he would most likely name some big corporation). He would also steal from the state as much as he can (he would not steal from himself if it belonged to him, the people). Bill Gates in communist Russia would be a Minister of Software, his ministry  would have absolute monopoly and he would enjoy the same lifestyle as he has in corporate US.


Obama is a corporatist (like his predecessors Clinton, Bush and the others) and he has  confirmed it many times in his words and in his actions ("bailouts" being the best example). He believes in "trickle down" economy (when the corporations do well, everybody benefits; arguably a fiction)
 [link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism#cite_note-4][/link]



stella41b -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 5:25:26 PM)

Oh Lord.. here we go again.. * head wall*



TheHeretic -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 5:49:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

Oh Lord.. here we go again.. * head wall*



It's one of those rare and magickal moments, Stella, when you and I are in complete accord. [;)]



thornhappy -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 5:56:53 PM)

Pass the peanuts & jujubees....



InvisibleBlack -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 6:06:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

Oh Lord.. here we go again.. * head wall*



It's one of those rare and magickal moments, Stella, when you and I are in complete accord. [;)]


Ditto.



Arpig -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 8:48:47 PM)

What's a socialist?...why its the scary thing hiding under every bed, of course[:)]



Termyn8or -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/1/2010 10:23:31 PM)

Total jumpout, responding to OP only.

WE are socialists. All of us.

T



Brain -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/2/2010 1:18:38 AM)

People, like professors of economics, history or political science, in universities would say that Russians were “building communism” as would Russians themselves.

 
“Russia was mistakenly viewed as a communist country. In reality it was not,” you said.  And I can agree with you on that. 
 
But I can’t agree with saying state capitalism is socialism when, “This practice is in sharp contrast with the ideals of both socialism and laissez-faire capitalism.[5].”
 
 
State capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
In more modern sense, state capitalism is a term that is used (sometimes interchangeably with state monopoly capitalism) to describe a system where the state is intervening in the markets to protect and advance interests of Big Business. This practice is in sharp contrast with the ideals of both socialism and laissez-faire capitalism.[5]
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism
 
Now this is where it gets interesting because the Free Online Dictionary says:

socialism - definition of socialism by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
 
1.         Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
(I think you refer to this as state capitalism but they, the dictionary experts, define it as socialism)
 
 
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.
 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Socialism
 

In my opinion if the people or workers own the means of production it’s socialism.   And, in my opinion these definitions are not clear causing confusion.

Regardless, Obama is not a socialist and it’s a lie for conservatives/Republicans/ TeaBaggers to call him one.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

What is a socialist?

Socialists believe that the means of production should be owned collectively or by the government. There is no reason to believe Obama is a socialist. Uneducated conservatives who don't even know the real definition of the word are the only ones who think he's a socialist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
 
Socialism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization advocating either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources.[1][2][3] A more comprehensive definition of socialism is an economic system that has transcended commodity production and wage labor, where economic activity is carried out to maximize use-value as opposed to exchange-value and thus a corresponding change in social and economic relations, including the organization of economic institutions and resource allocation;[4] often implying advocacy for a method of compensation based on the amount of labor expended.[5]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
 



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: What is a socialist? (3/2/2010 7:50:25 AM)

For me a socialist is an itinerary of engagements.

Everyone else is over complicating the issue.[8|]



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