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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/1/2010 5:17:57 PM   
Aneirin


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Hindley was often seen out in the company of a prison guard, attending such things as post offices.

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/1/2010 5:18:31 PM   
stella41b


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I grew up in Bradford living approximately a mile from his house and one street away from where Yvonne Pearson - his 8th victim was found. My school was actually on Lumb Lane, and I spent part of my childhood living and being educated in the red light district in Bradford and one of the things I can remember is the fear and terror that this man caused, especially to women, at the time.

Peter Sutcliffe hasn't served his sentence at all, for he, like the detectives working on his case, the members of the judiciary serving at the time and William Whitelaw who was the Home Secretary at the time, is a liar, a compulsive liar and unlike other notable killers who fessed up and did their time Peter Sutcliffe got what he bargained for when the deals were struck in Sheffield and Dewsbury.

This might be an unpopular point of view but until the last two victims were murdered - Marguerite Walls and Jacqueline Hill, both in Leeds, this was never a serious murder enquiry and it wasn't because it was assumed that he was out after prostitutes. It wasn't until Marguerite Walls, the 47 year old Pudsey based civil servant was murdered and then student Jacqueline Hill was murdered in Headingley (and not the red light district of Chapeltown) that the West Yorkshire Metropolitan Police started acting as if he was a danger to all women - which he was and had been ever since 1969.

This investigation bears a very striking similarity to that in Florida of Aileen Wuornos were in both cases police sat back because the victims were involved in prostitution. In both cases police could have apprehended the killer long beforehand but didn't, and so therefore in both cases the killer was given additional opportunities to kill, and unfortunately took them. This was something Wuornos pointed out in her last interview before her execution in 2002. The West Yorkshire Metropolitan Police interviewed Sutcliffe nine times and even had a numbered five pound note directly linking him to a victim in Manchester.

When he was on remand in Armley prison in 1981 Sutcliffe was reported as saying that if it went right that he would 'only have to serve ten years and serve the time of his time in the nuthouse' and this is exactly what happened. Wasn't it at some time in the early 1990's when he was transferred to Broadmoor? How long did he spend in Broadmoor?

I am strongly against the death penalty but I am also just as much against the early release of killers and feel that life without parole is the best solution. Okay, so Harold Shipman couldn't face up to living without hope and took his own life? Tough titty. He should have thought about that a bit more as he was sat there watching all those women die. He should have thought about it more when he was drawing Pavulon into those syringes. But he didn't.

And he didn't because like almost every person who commits a murder he thought he would get away with it or get off with a lighter sentence, just like Sutcliffe and so many others. This is why the death penalty isn't a deterrent but simply taking a life for a life, simply because hardly any killer considers it as a consequence of their actions. But if we stopped releasing murderers 'because they've served their sentence' and kept them where they belong, securely locked up away from society, it might just send out a very clear message to anybody considering killing anyone.

It's bad enough that the two killers of Liverpool toddler are being prepared for release and a new life in Australia. Each and every time a murderer gets released it sends out that very clear message 'you might be able to get away with it', or 'you might be able to get off lightly' or even 'you only have to serve x number of years in prison'. Crimes don't happen because people are bad, or evil, crimes happen because of reason, motivation, and opportunity, and someone prepared to take that risk.

But to me the whole Yorkshire Ripper case does show up a way of thinking which many people appear to find acceptable and that is to make a value judgment on someone's life. Some would argue that, for example, someone working is more valuable to society than someone unemployed making a judgment based on those two facts alone, without digging deeper and asking the question 'why' and trying to understand the answers.

This is the same argument of those who advocate the death penalty who feel that such a killer 'doesn't deserve to live', and it would appear that at the time to the West Yorkshire Metropolitan Police detectives of the Yorkshire Ripper squad in Leeds that the lives of Wilma MacCann, Yvonne Pearson and Patricia Atkinson weren't as important as Jayne MacDonald's, Marguerite Walls or Barbara Leach because they were prostitutes.

However I would much rather people didn't make such value judgments and instead saw this as a matter of responsibility where we all share in making and keeping society as safe as possible. We cannot foist that responsibility onto others or expect individuals to share that responsibility, especially in the case of killers who have failed to shoulder that responsibility to the degree that it has not only cost someone their life, but also cost an entire family one of their members, perhaps a partner to someone else, etc.

Yes I am a humanitarian, and yes, I am saying that the life of a prostitute, a criminal and even a killer is just as valuable as any other because it is life, and that person is a someone to someone, just in the same way we are someone to other people. Do we need to be going down the route of judging, and subsequently condemning people for their actions alone?

I am sorry but I'm not interested in whether Peter Sutcliffe is a danger to society or not. He is responsible for taking the lives of thirteen women, destroying the lives of others who he didn't manage to kill, like Olive Smelt, Barbara Long, not to mention the people in the lives of his victims, their parents, children, and relatives. He has shown repeatedly that he cannot be trusted with the basic responsibilities of being in society and I feel that he should never given that trust or responsibility again.

But I am also very strongly against his release because it sends out a very clear message to women in this country and that message is - you are second class citizens. And I, for one, would never want to be the Home Secretary sending out that message.


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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/1/2010 5:38:25 PM   
Aneirin


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Irritating also that the Bulger killers should be released to a new life in Australia given that a large majority of skilled  Britons want to move there but can't due to the points system or other obstacles put in their way like finance. What sort of message is this sending out to those Britons, crime does pay, working hard and staying within the law does not ? What about the Australians, are the Australian people knowing that they are going to get two child killers on their streets. Australia used to be an island prison on the other side of the world, where criminals were sent, I wonder how that now sits with the Australians are they happy to accept two more British prisoners.

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/1/2010 6:25:12 PM   
domiguy


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Seems to me like he should be released. Whats the big deal?

You don't know how many nights I have knelt at my bed and prayed for God to send me a sign to off some of the vile bitches that I have known.

I distinctly remember one conversation I had with God about Mary, that bitch from Hell in accounting.

Domiguy: "God, it's me, Domi...Was wondering if we could talk?"

God: "What is it my son?"

Domiguy: "Welllllllllllll, it's about Mary from accountng. That Bit(God immediately interrupts)

God: "Ah crap. Not this again.

Domi: Geeez, all I want is your blessing for me to kill her..Just give me some sort of a sign. I'll make it easy. I have a quarter and I will flip it five times and if in those five times it comes up heads one or more time I know that it is your will that she should die.

God: Domi, you know it doesn't work that way.

Domi: (repeatedly flipping the quarter up in the air) "Tails...Shit! Tails again....Heads!!!! I am your faithful servant and your will shall be done. Mary, that bitch from accounting, shall perish. I've got to run...Thanks God!!"

God: "Asshole."


Let the guy go...Who are we to argue with God? I bet they were all kind of cunty.

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/1/2010 6:41:33 PM   
TheHeretic


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FR

Yeah, that's right...  Ya'll don't have the death penalty, do you?  Or guns in your homes...  Well, I'm sure the State will make all the right decisions, then, right?

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/1/2010 8:57:23 PM   
Arpig


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My position won't be popular, but the rules should be followed....if the rules say he should be eligible for parole then give him his hearing.

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 7:47:06 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
She died in 2002 in jail
Brady is in manchester hospital now he must be inhis early 70s\

WHAT LE said:)

Yes correct, although strictly speaking we don't know for sure they didn't fake her death and give her a new identity.

Anyone got a shovel handy?

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 8:12:51 AM   
LadyEllen


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In the habit of Hindley herself, a shovel will do no good unless you know where to dig, and no one will be telling.

She could have been released earlier I believe (Brady was the real danger, she was just a stupid girl) if she'd opted to disclose where the remaining bodies had been hidden so the familes could have given them a proper burial.

E

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 8:48:17 AM   
mnottertail


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So, it is agreed, no reprieve for the yorkshire pudding, then.

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 8:49:02 AM   
pahunkboy


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The Illuminati traffic sex slaves and under aged all the time.

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 8:51:46 AM   
mnottertail


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right in downtown East Staines?

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 8:58:01 AM   
LadyEllen


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we have human trafficking for sex and all sorts of other reasons - its usually Albanians behind it though rather than some secretive clique of the elite who can after all access high class escorts rather than terrified Slavic girls.

E

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 9:00:52 AM   
pahunkboy


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for a while they made a stink over sex tourism.   Americans going to Indonesia for young girls/boys. 

as to the Op he is NOT reformed- the notion that he is - is utter madness.

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 9:04:12 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Sutcliffe is now 63 years of age and indeed he may not be a danger any longer as his team suggest.
then let his team draw straws to see who is going to give his ass their spare bedroom.

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 1:44:15 PM   
Lucylastic


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Holly, you have a wonderful way with words, :) I hope he rots

Ron, there is never a reprieve for yorkshire pudding, unless you eat it after the roasties and beef and have it with a sweet sauce...nom nom nom



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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 2:08:55 PM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Irritating also that the Bulger killers should be released to a new life in Australia given that a large majority of skilled  Britons want to move there but can't due to the points system or other obstacles put in their way like finance. What sort of message is this sending out to those Britons, crime does pay, working hard and staying within the law does not ? What about the Australians, are the Australian people knowing that they are going to get two child killers on their streets. Australia used to be an island prison on the other side of the world, where criminals were sent, I wonder how that now sits with the Australians are they happy to accept two more British prisoners.


seems theyre in the UK; news tonight reports Venables has been recalled to prison (so theyre already out) having breached the terms of his licence.

E

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 2:20:50 PM   
Aneirin


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Oh, that's interesting, just released on the UK news at Ten, one of the Bulger child killers is back in prison for breaching the terms of his release licence. If I am correct, it seems he went back to the area where he committed the crime that put him away at age ten in the first place. Now, he like his accomplice has been given a new identity, he is free to move around under this new identity, but with the new identity the non convicted people, i.e. the law abiding public aside from recognition of features do not know who he is, he is in effect, free'er than they.

So if these notorious killers that  currently languish in prison, Sutcliffe being one of them is released under a new identity, it is highly likely he also will breach the terms of his release licence, very doubtful he would, if a new identity was not available, but then he would be safer in prison.

Perhaps the awarding of this new identity thing and prohibition of reporting being placed on the press is the problem besides the thought that his sentence has not been served, release under a new identity affectively means freedom more than freedom.


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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 2:31:49 PM   
JonnieBoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

never see the outside of broadmoor ever again


Ever seen the wall around that place ? I'd be surprised if anyone in there ever saw over it.

There's no doubt Sutcliffe is a danger to society, he gets let out and some poor fuck is going down for murder, or attempted murder. I remember as a kid, our nice field trip from school being cut short because of Sutcliffe's activities, it made me aware of things that I should have been better not knowing at that age.

I don't subscribe to the death penalty as proposed, ... if he's "reformed", then surely "integrating" him with the general prison population would be the obvious next step to his "freedom" ... shurely ?

Sutcliffe is proven guilty, and no mistake, of heinous multiple murders. Releasing him would be proof that there's at least one more mad person on the planet.

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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 2:39:33 PM   
Lucylastic


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They took him out of gen pop because he got slashed, he would get slashed or worse again, rule 43 didnt even protect him.



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RE: Releasing the Yorkshire Ripper - 3/2/2010 2:41:18 PM   
stella41b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Ya'll don't have the death penalty, do you? 



No we don't go in for social cleansing.


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