Making Peace With Submission (Full Version)

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lovingpet -> Making Peace With Submission (3/2/2010 8:05:57 PM)

This goes alongside such questions as at what point a submissive felt truly owned and such.  In those threads we often hear about how it was eye opening, scary, yummy, confusing, or any other number of things.  Often overall the experience was good, apparent by the fact that the submissive and their dominant remained together, but there was a lot of tension in getting to that moment, whether it was instantaneous or progessed over a course of time.  It was a time that it was simple, plain fact that one person was in the control of another regardless of how they might have felt about it.  In many accounts, it is clear that the submissive was unsettled by this in that moment and possibly for a long time after that.

That's where the twist in the road comes in.  At some point, the warring finally ends.  Struggling and arguments with self end.  Fear fades.  Clarity descends.  Finally there is peace and rest within the hands of the dominant.  Not everyone has this internal conflict.  A lot of people do, however, and I would love to hear the stories of those moments from those who have experienced them.  What was the final piece of the puzzle that finally allowed your walls to crumble and for that to be okay?  How did it change things within your relationship going forward?  How do you feel that you had such a conflict in the first place?  Thanks!

lovingpet 



MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/2/2010 8:33:13 PM)

As with many things (in this thing that we do), we use words that have many of the the same meanings as those used in 'nilla-land.  Such is the case with the word "owned" as it pertains to said "walls" and to "submission".  We can dance around the BDSM lingo all day, but when it's all said and done, I think it's the same in both 'nilla and BDSM-land.  As such, I personally think when one feels SECURE in their relationship (and with their partner), that's when things change.  [:)]






luvzdabutt -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/2/2010 9:04:46 PM)

As a male submissive, it was important to find peace and reconciliation with myself before i could find a FemDomme to start a serious relationship.
With me, there was always an inner conflict between submissiveness and "true" masculinity. Some fantasies i realized should remain fantasies and not necessarily be acted out. This is when i realized that i was a submissive man who wanted to serve a Woman, and not just a kinky pervert looking to act out everything that ever crossed my mind.
As a young man, i felt cursed by my obsession with Femdom, it made it nearly impossible to have vanilla relationships. I did have a vanilla marriage for a while, but my deep seated desires eventually surfaced and unfortunately could not be satisfied in that relationship. i probably would have settled and stayed, (although not sexually satisfied), if there were not many other things wrong there.
After my divorce, i knew that i only wanted a Femdom-D/s based relationship. i finally made peace that this is part of me that cannot be removed. It is not the end-all-be-all of my identity, but it is a core part of my make-up and i wouldn't give it up if i even could!!!
That being said, i met a wonderful Dominant Woman, and We plan on living together soon and exploring a full-time Femdom lifestyle. i will keep everyone posted, (as if you care)! i love You Miss Sallie!!!!!



DesFIP -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/3/2010 3:59:44 AM)

It wasn't anything I did, but what he did. If I was having a lot of trouble with something, he backed off on that and worked on something else. And over about a six month period I would be able to formulate my thoughts, express them and we would discuss it. And when he went back to it I no longer had the problem.

It was pretty stress free because of him, not because of me. The other piece of the puzzle was physical affection. The more upset or anxious I got, the more time he would spend holding me to make me more secure.



littleone35 -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/3/2010 12:07:24 PM)

Oh i definitaly fought it kicking and screaming (not literally of course) when my late friend said i was submisive i actually laughed at him. he said tell you want read thise thing gave me some website to read up on then we can talk. Since i was sure he was wrong i siad i would read them as i did i started to realize maybe he was right. I said damn it this is not me but deep inside i knew it was. So we talked and i did fight it, it went against my upbringing, but i was an adult making my own decision. I said i guess i could see and he offered to mentor me. After a few weeks i had my AH HA miniute and i knew he was right and what was i fighting about to made me happy and fulfilled to be a sub. When i embraced that side of myself i was more peacful. I was born a sub i don't even know why i ever fought it.

Matt's lttleone



antinomy -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/3/2010 12:54:09 PM)

Actually, I really like this question, a lot! For me, it really had very little to do with a relationship, and instead a whole lot of self evaluation. I have always been who I am, but, there was a time a decade or so ago when I would have bristled at being called submissive. Why? Because, to me, the word had all sorts of negative connotations. It meant things that I did not associate with who I am. And then, I had the good fortune of meeting some people in the lifestyle, seeing strong, submissive women who claimed that title and yet were EXACTLY the type of people I would want to be identified with. I realized that, in not making peace with my submission, I was not being true to myself. I was spending so much time trying NOT to be labelled, that I was losing who I was in the process. I think, especially for me, it was because I did not want to be seen as a follower. I was capable, smart, and did not NEED to be led. Truth, is, though...I thrive when I'm led, but only by the RIGHT leader. I need that, and once I took a step back and realized it, things just became so much clearer. Now, still have not found the person to lead me, and that's okay- because, I was right, I don't NEED it in that respect. I can live a perfectly good life even if I never find him. I certainly hope I do; as I believe it will greatly enhance my life and his. But, until then? I just enjoy getting to know myself better, working on becoming what I think he deserves in his life, so that when we cross paths, I'm ready for him!



Missokyst -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/3/2010 2:08:55 PM)

I guess I have never had an issue with submission. In my marriage at a young age I was pretty close to a doormat. I had no rights and no ability to express unhappiness in my situation. I worked hard to get beyond that level of damaged self esteem. In the relationships since then I have always been submissive. I don't really know any other way to be. Beats me why people feel they need to fight that personality trait as for me it was a step up.



lovingpet -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/3/2010 6:48:38 PM)

Thanks for all the responses!  This is just a thought I've been kicking around after events this weekend with my partner.  I came back very changed in some subtle and some not so subtle ways.  Any desire to fight who/what I am, his control, the plans laid out, or anything else is simply gone.  It disappeared with a intense, but brief, conversation just before I left.  I think some of the keys were seeing such things laid bare as love and respect for me, responsibility, practicality, concern for my well being, and even sacrifice.  It isn't as though I was in doubt these things existed, but the very spontaneous and deep nature of this conversation really put to rest so many things that I was using to hold things back.  I guess now I really don't have much excuse.  As strange as it feels, I am okay with that and am glad to lay down those things at last.

lovingpet



lucylucy -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/3/2010 9:04:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet
At some point, the warring finally ends.  Struggling and arguments with self end.  Fear fades.  Clarity descends.  Finally there is peace and rest within the hands of the dominant.  Not everyone has this internal conflict.  A lot of people do, however, and I would love to hear the stories of those moments from those who have experienced them.  What was the final piece of the puzzle that finally allowed your walls to crumble and for that to be okay?  How did it change things within your relationship going forward?  How do you feel that you had such a conflict in the first place?  Thanks!

I love this question!

There was definitely internal conflict for me. My body submitted immediately, without any hesitation. My body responded to his touch and voice from the very beginning, but my mind resisted at different points, sometimes strongly and sometimes in subtle ways. There were many times when I thought, "I can't do this."

At some point in December, right around the holidays, I realized that I hadn't felt any internal conflict in a while. I'm not sure when the last time was that I felt that internal conflict, I just know that I realized at some point that it was gone. In hindsight, I think the fact that he wanted me to spend Christmas and New Year's with him sunk in and I realized that not only did he love me but he wanted to build a life with me, and I also realized that I wanted that, too.

I went into this relationship thinking it would be all physical. I didn't want the mental or emotional parts, and even though I found that I enjoyed those parts, I wasn't at peace with them. I couldn't imagine them being long term. He could--I think he wanted that from the beginning and simply didn't push me about it. He wisely let me settle into those parts and get comfortable with them.



lally2 -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/4/2010 3:29:26 AM)

ive never thought about this until now [:)] - and i think im going with this:

i live a full, varied and happy life.  my work, son, animals, spirituatlism, friends and family satisfy a huge part of me and i have no actual need for a relationship.  when i meet someone who makes me feel i want to spend time with them im pretty much there already in terms of accepting my part and what is expected of me.  but to feel actually owned or even particularly submissive to them as opposed to being a submissive who responds generally to a Dominant personality, well, that does take time and i think thats where the conflicts can often occur.

I have met a few Dominants who think the moment they have a foot in the door they have me all the way.  they dont.

the process is organic and can go forward or backwards very quickly.

i think there is a tendancey to fast track to the fun stuff without first getting to know each other properly.  doubts do get in the way of submission and doubt can creep in very quickly - fact is i am never going to feel enslaved or even especially submissive to anyone until i feel certain that my self esteem and emotional health is safe - and that takes time.




sweetboundesire -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/4/2010 6:29:31 PM)

personally, for me, I think the D/s dynamic is not the submissive crumbles to the will of everything the Dom wishes. It's more about free will and allowing....then finding freedom and release in that. There is always free will for either party to separate, yet when it's going and going well, it is more about a strong yin & yang...about the willingness of the give and take. For both, it is a form of ecstasy and release, just way more intense than you'd ever find in ol' worn out vanilla.



ranja -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/5/2010 2:09:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

As with many things (in this thing that we do), we use words that have many of the the same meanings as those used in 'nilla-land.  Such is the case with the word "owned" as it pertains to said "walls" and to "submission".  We can dance around the BDSM lingo all day, but when it's all said and done, I think it's the same in both 'nilla and BDSM-land.  As such, I personally think when one feels SECURE in their relationship (and with their partner), that's when things change.  [:)]






indeed i think you had it all in your first answer.

i am the eldest of my siblings and my mother left when i was young... eventhough i have submissive type of sexual fantasies, i am usually considered a dominant personality... things can get confusing

i did not much understand myself until i stumbled into this online world and with the help of some 'cyber Masters' i discovered some things and was shown some things and encouraged to make some changes that made my Husband and me much happier.

i suppose really... i always blamed him for things... i never thought he quite understood me... i  thought he was not quite good enough ...
... when i finally understood that it was ALL me: that I was to blame for not being clear and honest enough... and that He really was very much better than i maybe even deserved considering the circumstances... and that i could and should trust him... then things changed...

when i felt everything was actually totally in my power, that made me feel secure and then i could totally submit to Him... and indeed there is nothing wrong with his mastery

sometimes i wonder why i was being so difficult and so scared for so long... and i am so happy He stuck with me.



wisdomtogive -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/5/2010 6:57:35 AM)

Lovingpet, thank you very much for posting this question.

These past three years has been a dosey in making peace with my own submissive nature. I came into this with a lot of resistence. One thing I know from past experience, whatever I am resisting is something I need to explore.

Growing up in a Jewish family, the women were very much career women, intelligent and aggressive, nothing spoke of submissiveness with them. Being a part of the feminist movement, submissive women were basically looked down up. Being married the 2nd time though, I noticed something began to change within me. I enjoyed being at home, raising my child and letting hubby control everything, yet I constantly resisted this. I felt 'weak' being in this role. Unfortunately going against my natural behavior brought up many emotional issues for me, but that too was a blessing. I got to wade through each one and began a long healing period.

At this time in my life, I am very peaceful with who I am. The resistence is minimal now. I have embrace all of me, and am even living to a fullier me then before. I will be forever grateful for that door, which openned for me, label submissive and the other one that openned-bdsm. It has helped me to put my pieces together and be proud of who i am.

Who would think that me with the mindset that a submissive female must be weak, have no control and most likely is that dreaded doormat, can all be erased as fallacy. It takes a lot of strength and control to be a submissive/slave and put another ahead of oneself. It takes a lot of integrity to give yourself to another in service completely. I have done this as a child in my spiritual walkings, and now i am able to own up to it and be this beautiful, smart, strong and patient s-type to serve all that I am to serve, be it Goddess, G-d, Sir, those who come to me through work..etc. To serve without a no for me has become so peaceful. I can just lay down and soak up all the beautiful energy that the Universe and Sir wishes to bestow on me. Now, though i do not know if the word dorrmat describes me or not, i am even at peace with that when called it.

This has been such a remarkable journey and one each morning I give gratitude too and at night.
wisdomtogive



Lorenzo19 -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/5/2010 4:02:37 PM)

Can I make a comment? Being a Dom and all.



lovingpet -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/5/2010 4:53:20 PM)

Of course Lorenzo!  All input is welcomed.

Thank you all for your responses.  I expected a wide range of experiences and I am hearing them.  I will look forward to hearing more.

lovingpet



Lorenzo19 -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/5/2010 5:20:59 PM)

Thanks I wasnt sure, since it is the ask a subbie forum...

I just wanted to comment. That the OP sounds a lot like what We used to call "Getting Over the Hump" back in the 90's. I havent heard that term lately. (Does the next generation even know about the Hump?)

I remember discussing it back then (90's) and the whole thing was quite mysterious. We all knew it existed and it had to be overcome to achieve harmony in the relationship. Other than that not much was known. Even after having collared 7 girls it is still a bit of a mystery to Me (and nikkki, having gone over the hump).

I think this is a worthy topic and I am going to follow it and hope to gain some insight. It's very important and if any D or s isnt aware of the HUMP they really NEED to know. Hope it gets more participation.



eyesopened -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/6/2010 3:28:30 AM)

I was a blossoming flower during the EPA debates.  I was woman-hear-me-roar.  While still in high school I took a job in a male-dominated trade.  Yes, trade.  I became a printing press operator.  Faced sexual discrimination with the Lithographer's Union.  I'm sure my family all thought I was a dyke.  I was proud of my accomplishments.  I was proud to do a man's work and earn a man's pay.  So yes, I thought something like submission would equal weakness.  I was not weak.

But in my personal relationships I was flawed.  I attracted men who would fawn over me.  My female friends all bragged about their men doting on them and I even told one friend that I was seriously flawed because once I realised I could control a guy...he disgusted me.  I mean how weird is that to have a perfectly great guy interested in me but I would break up with them for no other reason than they were disgusting to me just because they doted on me?

I knew I was flawed.  A strong, opinionated woman who could earn as good or better living than most men who had this deep need to serve, to please, to dote upon someone else.  I longed for someone who could see the little girl underneath the hard exterior.  I felt I didn't belong anywhere.  After my divorce I quit dating altogether and just became "mom" and that was all.

The "aha" moment came much much later when I finally discovered bdsm and D/s.  It wasn't so much my warring against submission, it was simply being ignorant that there actually was a place for me in this world.



lovingpet -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/8/2010 4:44:12 PM)

I don't know about the hump, but I do know there was a lot of internal reckoning to do.  I have found rather quickly that the shift in my own mindset has had far reaching influences and much of it not necessarily a positive feedback on my "awakening".  I find myself kind of separated and a little out of my element in a lot of discussions now.  I'm okay with that, but I am still settling in and getting comfortable with putting forth an opposing view and one that is often viewed poorly.  I don't care for conflict, so being in a minority opinion is difficult for me, but I am learning slowly how to take such positions and still keep both my own peace and the peace within the discussion as far as my part goes.

It is very strange looking at things from this side of recent struggles.  I never really grasped onto the "feminist" mindset.  I didn't want to work outside the home.  I wanted babies.  I wanted a good man in charge of the household.  I didn't mind working, if I needed to at so called "women's work" or even the "women's pay" associated with it.  The parts I liked were things such as women gaining means and legal leverage when it came to such things as rape and domestic violence.  I liked that women were able to get good educations and be recongized as a competent and intelligent human being.  It was things of this nature that I saw as good things to come out of the women's movement.  Most things I saw as either neutral or destructive in the long run.  With those attitudes, then what was the big deal about submission?  It is because now, whether male or female, there is little positive acceptance of a submissive personality.  It is push, push, push.  Be outspoken.  Be aggressive.  Stand up for your rights.  I can do all those things, but they don't fit me well.  They never did.

Finally, I just don't care anymore.  I am accepted fully by exactly ONE person on the face of this earth based unequivocally on all of who I am.  Not only am I accepted, but it makes me very valuable to him.  That's amazing to me in a culture that would likely give me the derrogatory label of "doormat" or something similar.  For me, there had to be some kind of validation that it was okay to be this.  I have it.  I don't just have it, I have it in a real and practical situation that encompasses my whole life and does so with the utmost of care and consideration.  I think it's just fantastic!

lovingpet



ranja -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/9/2010 1:40:19 AM)

You say you are quite new to all this and still learning... i think that is nice
i think everybody should be learning all through their lives...
it is nice to be new at something when you've been about for a while...

Sometimes people get a bit carried away with the new thing they are learning... on this site about bdsm i have heard it called sub-frenzy, but i simply think it is mild hysteria and can happen with all sorts of things when people get a bit obsessed.

you say: "That's amazing to me in a culture that would likely give me the derrogatory label of "doormat" or something similar."

I do not think anybody would put the title 'doormat' on you in a derrogatory way at all... you have two men... i think you know what you want and are prepared to put the effort in to make it happen for yourself, and THAT is exactly what the womens rights things were always about... do not delude yourself too much, stay focussed.

All the best



Heulwen -> RE: Making Peace With Submission (3/9/2010 6:31:20 AM)

great thread, great comments, thanks all



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