RE: What a wonderful global economy

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: What a wonderful global economy

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: What a wonderful global economy

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: What a wonderful global economy - 3/4/2010 8:16:26 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

killed in a defective toyota

(in reply to mnottertail)

Profile

Post #: 41

RE: What a wonderful global economy - 3/4/2010 9:08:44 AM

InvisibleBlack

Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack
Free trade only works if you're making something that someone else wants to buy at a better price than they can get it at home. The U.S. has been failing in that area for some time.

That's partial bullshit. Free trade works quite well when you provide anything at a substantially lower cost than your competitor.

Not necessarily. You have to produce something they have a demand for. If you produce, say, complex derivates and financial advice, which you charge for - and another country decides that it doesn't want credit default swaps nor your financial services - then your "product" has no foreign market.

If you produce something non-exportable (like say, medical services), there is no foreign demand.

A great deal of America's "service economy" is either non-exportable or is based in services that do not have the same global demand as something like cars do - or food - or oil.

quote:

As for the US failing in that area, it has not been on quality. My last 3 US cars went over 600,000 miles combined and the current one is closing in on 200,000. Basic and good maintenance is all it really takes to make most any car these days last.

I didn't say that America's products failed due to quality. My Ford pickup has 150,000 miles on it and is over ten years old and runs like a charm. I have no complaints.

Quality is spotty, though. My car is just fine. The engineering on the Sig Sauer P226, I shot a year ago was way better than the machining on the S&W 5906 I shot.

I suspect that in some areas we are top ntoch in quality and in others we're not.

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

(in reply to StrangerThan)

Profile

Post #: 42

RE: What a wonderful global economy - 3/4/2010 9:34:14 AM

InvisibleBlack

Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack
Free trade only works if you're making something that someone else wants to buy at a better price than they can get it at home. The U.S. has been failing in that area for some time.

Failing?

So in order for the U.S. to offer that product at the better price we would need to lower the average factory wage of 21 dollars per hour to the 64 cents per hour the average Chinese factory worker earns.

And you think we are competing on even terms?

It would depend on the product and the market. If everything else is equal - you are doing exactly the same amount of labor and producing exactly the same product in terms of quality and functionality and the Chinese worker can do it for 64 cents and you can do it for 21 dollars - then you are competing on even terms and the Chinese guy is winning.

Why would any business or individual pay you 21 dollars for a shoelace when they can buy it for 64 cents?

That 21 dollars should be purchasing some measure of improvement - either in quality of efficiency. If it's a machine part and your hand-tooled titanium one will last twenty years and work perfectly and the Chinese one is aluminum and requires refinishing and will give out in a year - then my choice is to buy a lot of 64 cent pieces or one really durable 21 dollar one. That's a decision based on my needs and I may well buy the 21 dollar one if my alternative is to climb to the top of the refinery and change out some vital component a couple of times a year.

If for that 21 dollars your American ingenuity and computerized efficiency can produce ten thousand shoelaces in an hour and the Chinese worker can produce one - then it's absolutely worth the 21 dollars to run the factory in the United States.

You may not like it, but those are the cold winds of the market. Free trade works when you have a competitive advantage. If you want jobs to pour back into the United States, you need to figure out what it is that we do better than everyone else, and then subsidize, encourage and reward people to do a lot of it. Not try and out-do someone at low-cost, labor-intensive mass production. They have the advantage in that market. The United States will never have the advantage in low-cost labor.

Since we've spent the past twenty or thirty years telling the third-world that they need to industrialize, embrace the market, educate themselves and produce stuff like we do - getting mad at them now becuase they embraced what we told them and are starting to have industrial and electronic revolutions in their countries and moving into those higher-value industries to raise their standard of living is somewhat hypcritical. Especially after we also gave them millions or billions of dollars to help them do so. They did exactly what we told them to.

We need to move on. Push the frontier. Develop new products, new markets, and new technologies. New methods of manufacturing. We stopped. The Hadron collider is in Switzerland. If you want to get a payload into space, you talk to the Russians. If you're the market leader, you need to keep innovating and improving. You can't stand still or the smaller hungier companies eat your market. There's always someone who can come out with a lower cost version of your product.

I don't believe for a minute that the United States of America has no competitive advantage in the world. We're just not focusing on those industries and areas where we can out-compete the rest of the world. For decades America was known for its innovation, knowledge and can-do attitude. Throwing money at Wall Street and bailing out dying companies is simply flushing our hard-earned wealth away. Creating an environment that encourages invention, innovation and new ways of doing things - that rewards investment in new ways of manufacturing and new methods of production would move us forward. Trying to beat the Chinese at sewing shirt collars or screwing computer cases together or whatever on a man-for-man basis isn't.

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Profile

Post #: 43

RE: What a wonderful global economy - 3/4/2010 4:47:12 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Show me where else I can get a reliable, fuel-efficient, safe automobile that holds its value well for $12,000 new and drive it for 200,000 miles plus.

I hate to disillusion him as well but my poor chevy truck has 210,000 hard miles. Work miles, loaded with the bed down on the axle pulling overloaded trailers. It had a starter at about 180,000, an alternator at about 204,000 and a rear u joint somewhere in between.

Not to mention the in laws have slew of Buicks like LeSabres and Centurys that have all run over 200,000 with minimal problems and they also get close to 30mpg on the highway.

If you wanna buy your cute little toyota that's fine but let's not pretend that everything else is junk.

I don't want to jinx it but my Nissan and my previous Honda all fit your criteria.

My son now drives my Nissan and I drive my Master's Chrysler 300C. So far I've been very impressed with the Chrysler.

Whoa. I never said anything else was junk. Many fine cars out there.

But if you're telling me people are buying new Chevy trucks at $12,000, you're full of shit.

We don't have a Nissan or Honda dealer near here. I hear good things, though. Also about Hyundai. And the Ford Focus.

I'm cheap and I drive 30,000 miles a year. 40 mpg, reliability, nearby service, long life, low price---I'm there.

(in reply to flcouple2009)

Profile

Post #: 44

RE: What a wonderful global economy - 3/4/2010 4:49:59 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3
At least Toyota tried to identify and fix the problem not cover it up to reduce costs.

I take it you haven't been following this story too closely.

Government uncovered evidence of Toyota cover-up‎

New York, NY (NewYorkInjuryNews.com) – A government congressional council has uncovered proof that Toyota Corporation has consistently and deliberately withheld company records from many personal injury cases brought against them since the massive vehicle recalls, announced the New York Times.
...Toyota’s credibility is also in question about whether they withheld relevant and significant information from government officials, such as U.S auto safety regulators.

Japan Transport Minister Hints at Toyota Cover-Up

The Japanese Government turned its guns on Toyota Tuesday as its Transport Minister hinted at a cover-up of safety issues at the carmaker that is under criminal investigation by the United States over the recall of millions of cars.

No I've not been following the story that closely perhaps there is evidance of a cover up, all I've heard in the mainstream media is of complaints relating to Toyota's lack of immediate responce.

Even if there was a cover-up you have to consider that this is slightly different to evidence found showing the act of making a cost decision as to how much a life is worth.

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Profile

Post #: 45

RE: What a wonderful global economy - 3/4/2010 8:29:31 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

"how much a life is worth"

That is calculated by lawyers and actuaries.

T

(in reply to SL4V3M4YB3)

Profile

Post #: 46