Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/5/2010 9:21:15 AM)

Recently on a clearout, I found a sheet detailing my bank's ethical policy and was pleased to notice it says it does not involve itself in any business that finances ;

any organisation that advocates discrimination and incitement to hatred

the manufacture or transfer of indiscriminate weapons, eg cluster bombs and depleted uranium munitions.

organisations that fail to implement basic labour rights as set out in the Fundamental ILO Conventions, eg avoidance of child labour, or that actively oppose the rights of workers to freedom of association, eg in a trade union

organisations that take an irresponsible approach to the payment of tax in the least developed countries

organisations that impede access to basic human necessities, eg safe drinking water or vital medicines.

any business whose core activity contributes to global climate change, via the extraction or production of fossil fuels (oil, coal and gas), with an extension to the distribution of those fuels that have a higher global warming impact (eg tar sands and certain biofuels)

any business whose core activity contributes to the development of nanotechnology in circumstances that risk damaging the environment or compromising human health

any organisation involved in the exploitation of great apes, e.g. in experimentation or general commercial use.

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A pretty good ethical policy, and I agree with it, so am pleased my money is not being used  for something I disagree with, which made me wonder how many others out there who use a bank and actually care about controversial issues know how their bank is using their money. The bank I use actually asked their customers what they cared about and on the results formed this policy, which is open to extension as with the changing times and their customers passions.

Have you lately or at all checked where your money is being invested ?

Does it matter to you ?











Arpig -> RE: Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/5/2010 10:34:22 AM)

quote:

Have you lately or at all checked where your money is being invested ?

Does it matter to you ?
Money to invest???[sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif][sm=rofl.gif]



LadyEllen -> RE: Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/5/2010 10:39:00 AM)

That list kind of leaves me wondering what business the bank might invest your money in that has the capacity to produce the kind of returns you'd like on the scale we all would like?

On the other hand, the notion of banks investing your money in businesses is rather outdated - roulette being the nature of the new banking system possibly explains why viable business cant get bank finance, and perhaps in answering the retail customers' preferences for ethical banking this has helped to encourage banks towards the casino?

The problem we have with our ethics is that high ethics and highly profitable business are almost always mutually opposing aims. The most profitable businesses are those bereft of ethics whilst on the other hand, no one buys, sells or trades ethics which have no value in themselves except to those customers who prefer them and, critically, can afford them - which is fewer and fewer people every day.

E



Aneirin -> RE: Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/5/2010 6:34:22 PM)

Personally, a bank exists for me as a holderof funds and payer of standing orders set up by me, if it accomplishes those minor things without problem, they are worthy of my continued custom, they serve my need admirably as it saves me the hassle. But where they may use my funds when I have no need for them, I do care about, for I wish not for someone to use my money in pursuit of evil. I would hope others here feel the same as there is no point spouting words of goodness, if your money is being used against your beliefs.




Termyn8or -> RE: Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/5/2010 10:23:27 PM)

I don't know what it's like there, but there are smaller banks here. I deal with Dollarbank NA, which runs in about a tristate environment. I would almost rather deal with Third Federal, but oh well. They are both local at least in some kind of sense, and neither needed a bailout. My money was actually safe.

Well as safe as could be. Third Federal maintained a 10% capitalization, which in the fractional banking system used to be the requirement. That is you can only loan out ten times your deposits. That was the old rule. Rules were relaxed a long time ago and most banks went down to 2% or so capitalization. Third Federal did not. Dollar bank also remained solid somehow and never sold the note on us, or did anything really out of the ordinary. But their return was the spread, and they seem to be in good enough shape to not ask for a bailout (to my knowldge).

There is a movement going on in this country right now to move alot of money from the big banks to the small banks for some reason. Just Google for Move my money or something like that and it is all over the place. Some people see that local, rather than the super riche banks are the way to go. My money is safe, is your's ?

Even the best of banks have a fallback position. The FDIC and FSLIC, but they only insure depositors to a certain amount. If you have more than a half million dollars you should move it offshore. Detrimental as it may be to this economy, if you are to look out for number one, that is the best choice. I do not say this is a good thing, but it is the way it is.

T



LadyEllen -> RE: Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/6/2010 8:13:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Personally, a bank exists for me as a holderof funds and payer of standing orders set up by me, if it accomplishes those minor things without problem, they are worthy of my continued custom, they serve my need admirably as it saves me the hassle. But where they may use my funds when I have no need for them, I do care about, for I wish not for someone to use my money in pursuit of evil. I would hope others here feel the same as there is no point spouting words of goodness, if your money is being used against your beliefs.




A bank, like any commercial operation, exists to make a profit. Seeing to your personal needs is a variable cost to them which is added to the standing costs they have in maintaining branches, hole in the wall facilities and paying staff salaries.

To pay all those costs and create a profit out of the meagre sums which we little people deposit with them as a loan they have to invest them collectively in whatever mechanism or activity will yield them the highest return before we little people want our money back.

And I'm afraid that despite ethical policies, there is no way whatever in the global market to be able to say that your money is only ever invested ethically. The complexities of financial instruments and global trading mean that although your bank may invest ethically, there is no means of controlling what use it shall be put to by those with whom it has been invested, who in turn invest it somewhere else again, such that though your bank at no stage breached their ethical policy directly, it was ignored and probably breached one or more stages after it left your bank.

E



Termyn8or -> RE: Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/6/2010 8:40:01 AM)

FR

Does anyone have a real conception of a bank ? In it's original form here anyway, it was more like a safe deposit. The banks knew people wanted to keep their money in there so they could lend out say, half of it at any given time. In time came certificates of deposit, which locks up the money from withdrawal for a time. Then they could loan all of it out, but there had to be an out. If the deposiitor needed their money back they can get it, but with a penalty. The bank might have to borrow a bit of money to maintain enough assets to keep going, and those penalties paid that interest.

That is the true nature of a bank in this country, and unrelated to banks in other countries. They used to be called "savings and loans" or "building and loans" among other things. The international banks were in power at the time, but not here. Not until the illustrious Roger B. Taney came around at least. Nice guy, rendered the Dread Scott decision. He was a key factor in getting the US mixed up in this fucking mess and was rewarded with a lifetime job on the supreme court, from where he adjucated that travesty of justice, which stated that a slave who escaped to a free state was to be returned to slavery.

So originally maybe a bank would pay you 3% on your deposit, which was better than having it under a mattress back when inflation was not so rampant. Then they loaned it out at say 5% and that 2% was the spread, which was their profit. But things have changed a bit haven't they ? I suspect that banking in the "good" countries developed in a similar manner, and one of the ideas of this whole country was to stay the hell out of it. So much for that eh ?

So tell me, how come the big banks needed a bailout while small banks were solvent as ever ? Because they see a trap when they see it. They don't fall into it. They do business the old fashioned way, like putting the money in checking BEFORE writing checks, something that was considered common sense up until a decade or two ago. Now you have automatic bill payments going out and therefore you need direct deposit lest your car breaks down or something. Now not only if you lose your job or something like that, your name is not only "mud" with your creditors, but with your own bank as well.

Welcome to the new millenium. And take the red pill, the blue ones are yucky.

T



Moonhead -> RE: Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/6/2010 8:43:12 AM)

Is that the co-operative lot, Aneirin?



LadyEllen -> RE: Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/6/2010 8:45:24 AM)

Indeed T - but then if we were to argue that the relaxation and extinction of the regulations that controlled the casino activity that obtained before them and now has obtained since them - which the smaller local banks generally couldnt engage in due to critical mass issues more than good judgment I'd argue, we should be described as socialists or some other such nonsensical term indicating how we think that the government should have control over our very souls.

E




Termyn8or -> RE: Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/6/2010 9:38:26 AM)

I'm grasping for the complete meaning here LE, but I will try.

If you're implying that I'm implying that banking is a form of "socialism" I don't think I can really disagree. Even in it's true form, without the bullshit that has happened, even the old way it is possibly true. One guy does not have the money to buy land or something. When the money he borrowed actually came from depositors I guess that is, in a way, socialism. At best he borrows the money that others have put there to get a bit of interest. The institution that administers thee loans make s a profit. But actually they are responding to the needs of some with the resources of others. Socialism may be a bad word now, but in it's true form can really work. The problem with socialism is the administrators. In this case that would be the bankers.

As in any market (and this is nothing but a money market) if there was robust competition the gougers would be out in a very short time, with everyone taking their business elsewhere, where the rates were better. But the comglomeration and centralisation has skewed the whole thing.

Banks get bought out all the time. I didn't know that one credit account I have was a part of X bank at all, I found out later. The main problem is lack of competition. This is prevalent in many industries. You buy a Zenith TV because it is made in America, then you find out when it breaks it is junk and was actually made in Mexico. So you buy a Goldstar (LG) and save a few bucks. Goldstar (LG) bought Zenith out years ago and you get the same piece of shit product. How the hell are you supposed to know ? I only know because I work on them.

Applying socialism to a republic is a very tricky thing and is not going well. We need some very strict regulations about businesses buying businesses. We used to have FCC regulations that prohibited anyone from having a media monopoly in any one given "market". Money has struck that down. We used to have the Sherman anti-trust act, which also was intended to prevent monopolies. Wonder how Sherman came about ?

A railroad company or two were operating at an extreme loss. Banking the company out of pocket for the sole purpose of putting the competition out of business. This was the spirit of the law back then. Look it up and see the date. That's probably the last time the government did anything for us. They ordered the breakup of ATT, and now it is SBC global. Nice work. They made a bunch of lawyers rich and where did it get us ? Out of a national monopoly and into a global one. If there ever was a definition of "Out of the frying pan and into the fire" this must surely fit like a glove. What's more I am not even sure of the impetus behind the Sherman act. I don't trust them, and I don't trust them a hundred years before I was born.

Given the facts, I find that we must by necessity engage in a form of selective socialism. Some things are too much for the commoner to handle now. Let's say that the electric company up and decides to triple it's rates tomorrow. Are we to freeze in our cold caves then ? No, that is a legitimate function of government, to protect us from enemies. And financial enemies are still enemies. I'm not saying they are doing their job, I'm just saying that it is their job.

T



LadyEllen -> RE: Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/6/2010 9:44:05 AM)

No T. What I'm saying is that suggesting a return to the regulation that prevented the sort of scenario we have just experienced will be described by some to be socialist or otherwise given a "bad" name implying government control over all aspects of life.

Such as would describe banking regulation thusly, fail to understand that the regulations were there to prevent the scenario we just experienced, it having arisen before until their introduction, and were introduced with enormous public support since it was the public that suffered most from the prior disasters. In other words, the people required the regulation of the banks for the benefit of the people - it wasnt oppressive government control intruding where it ought not.

E



pahunkboy -> RE: Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/6/2010 10:50:31 AM)

Gosh-  just about everyone can join a credit union.

They have lower fees.



Moonhead -> RE: Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/6/2010 11:21:57 AM)

But do they take gold fillings?



pahunkboy -> RE: Banks, do you know what your bank is into ? (3/6/2010 1:42:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

But do they take gold fillings?


Yes.



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