RE: Dressing a male (Full Version)

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OttersSwim -> RE: Dressing a male (3/6/2010 10:57:49 PM)

The vast majority of males with gender leanings approach Dominant Females on this site as if the Lady were a used car with one feature that they particularly wanted.  It is like drinking from the fire hose of negativity when all a prospective submissive has interest in is how you would dress him and fulfill -his- fantasies...

A female-led relationship certainly contains elements that are important to both parties - but it begins and ends with the Lady - Her desires, Her wants, Her needs. 

The question that always gets asked in these threads is "So what's in it for the Lady?"

Hate to break it to you guys, but girls have quite a bit more going on in their heads than dress-up games...even when they like them!

I daresay that if more males with gender desires approached the Ladies here with intent to serve, and would commit to a relationship that put the Lady first, I firmly believe that the Ladies that were even a little bit open to a femme-boy submissive would be lining up.

And don't think they are not here because they are.




iwearpanties -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 5:35:19 AM)

wow i have noticed any time any posting or questions  with crossdressing or haveing a male dress or even any male asking about it always seem too cause replys of some form of ngeative talk !   Now before you all go on blasting me i know i know many ladies dont like it  or care for ..... yet we as male weather sub or not have too see ladies underware looking more and more male like with the cotton style briefs and the male fly front ......




MsStarlett -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 5:43:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Shoes that scrunch up the toes and murder the ankles;  shoes that you can't walk in without using a man as support. 


Support?  Poppy Cock!  Carry me you lazy lout.





VaguelyCurious -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 6:23:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Shoes that scrunch up the toes and murder the ankles;  shoes that you can't walk in without using a man as support. 


Support?  Poppy Cock!  Carry me you lazy lout.



[:D]
You just got told, Peon...




Andalusite -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 7:24:40 AM)

Here is a thread that is pretty much exclusively positive about cross-dressing, and has quite a few tips: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3027796/tm.htm

Back when I was looking, I was open to cross-dressers, and I've dated a couple in the past. I've also helped some of my drag queen friends dress up, loaned them clothes, do their makeup better, etc. I don't consider helping them dress to be a method for controlling them, and on its own, it isn't enough to get me hot, but it can certainly be combined with other things that *do*. A lot of women here have similar reactions - open to it as a reward, occasionally, but not interested in men who view being female as somehow simultaneously something to be ashamed of, something lesser, and something goddess-like and to be put on a pedestal. It's kind of like those guys who use "cocksucker" as an insult, then complain that their girlfriend won't give them a blowjob.




PeonForHer -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 10:09:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite
A lot of women here have similar reactions - open to it as a reward, occasionally, but not interested in men who view being female as somehow simultaneously something to be ashamed of, something lesser, and something goddess-like and to be put on a pedestal. It's kind of like those guys who use "cocksucker" as an insult, then complain that their girlfriend won't give them a blowjob.


Heh.  It does look very contradictory when it's put that way, doesn't it?  But I think that this goes to something even more fundamental about the way men see women.  What's seen as a desirable quality in the one sex is seen as the lack of a quality in the other - and much of that remains true even when we're talking about malesubs and femdoms rather than vanillas.   Few malesubs, I'd expect, would ask for a domme who's physically stronger than he is, for instance.  But it goes further.  I'd be surprised if many malesubs mind that a woman can't walk far in those wonderful, sexy strappy high heels (my favourite women's footwear [;)]) or that her long nails might hamper her ability to roll a fist properly. 

Hmmm.  I don't know.  I understand and appreciate all the objections women have used on this forum to those men who've wanted 'forced feminisation' (etc, etc) - but I still have this lingering suspicion that many, perhaps most, women just find it somewhat disturbing to see men 'feminised'.  If I'm right - then, I freely admit I have no real clue as to why. 

Having followed the history of feminism for some time, though - and even taught it, at times - I have sometimes wondered if it's to do with the way women (need to) see men.  Something that's very, very basic indeed.  That is: that in some essential way they want to see men as 'fixed entities', solid and reliable, like rocks (however rough around the edges'.  Men might have their faults, but at least women can be clear of what they are.  My mother put it like this, once: 'I like my cats to be cattish, my dogs to be doggy, and boys to be boyish'.  (Why do women so often compare boys and men to dogs?)  'Boys will be boys', the saying goes.  I've often thought the subtext of that old line is 'boys should always be boys'. 

The history of feminism has been spectacularly successful at changing women's minds, IMO, but has shown itself to be a great deal less successful at changing men.  In fact, it's very often been extremely scathing about men's efforts to change - and never more so than when men have avowedly tried to 'feminise' themselves.  TBH, I don't think the will has entirely been there to do that.

Just some very half-formed thoughts.  Beware: if you shoot me down in flames, I shall instantly put on a dress and burst into tears.  Fair warning.  [;)]




OttersSwim -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 10:38:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Beware: if you shoot me down in flames, I shall instantly put on a dress and burst into tears.  Fair warning.  [;)]


Peon, you are totally wrong, shitfaced wrong here and I am surprised and shocked at your bald faced finger-ejaculation you posted above. 

P.S.  I expect pics of your tear stained face and your pretty dress in my cmail box by 5 p.m. Mountain Time today.  [;)]




LadyPact -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 10:54:45 AM)

Hmmm.  I don't know.  I understand and appreciate all the objections women have used on this forum to those men who've wanted 'forced feminisation' (etc, etc) - but I still have this lingering suspicion that many, perhaps most, women just find it somewhat disturbing to see men 'feminised'.  If I'm right - then, I freely admit I have no real clue as to why.

In My case, it's not that I object to it because it is disturbing.  It honestly has so much more to do with Me being straight and not be attracted to females or anyone feminized in a sexual way.  On a friendship basis, I'm fine with it.  I'll happily hang out and socialize with anyone who is expressing their fem side.  At the same time, if they are in their fem persona, I see them in the same way as I do any other female.  Yes, they may look very pretty.  Yes, I can appreciate all of the hard work and dedication that they went through in order to obtain a female appearance.  At the same time, I perceive them as female, which means that I don't have any sexual interest.




PeonForHer -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 10:56:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Beware: if you shoot me down in flames, I shall instantly put on a dress and burst into tears.  Fair warning.  [;)]


Peon, you are totally wrong, shitfaced wrong here and I am surprised and shocked at your bald faced finger-ejaculation you posted above. 

P.S.  I expect pics of your tear stained face and your pretty dress in my cmail box by 5 p.m. Mountain Time today.  [;)]



Otters,

I'm really taken aback by your reaction.  I'm not into TV, nor 'forced-feminisation' and never have been; so, as I said, I'm playing with certain half-formed thoughts - no more.  I would of course defer to your practical experience.  You've lived something that I haven't.

What is it you object to about my post, exactly?  Educate me - don't whack me in the jaw!




Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 11:07:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Beware: if you shoot me down in flames, I shall instantly put on a dress and burst into tears.  Fair warning.  [;)]


Peon, you are totally wrong, shitfaced wrong here and I am surprised and shocked at your bald faced finger-ejaculation you posted above. 

P.S.  I expect pics of your tear stained face and your pretty dress in my cmail box by 5 p.m. Mountain Time today.  [;)]



Otters,

I'm really taken aback by your reaction.  I'm not into TV, nor 'forced-feminisation' and never have been; so, as I said, I'm playing with certain half-formed thoughts - no more.  I would of course defer to your practical experience.  You've lived something that I haven't.

What is it you object to about my post, exactly?  Educate me - don't whack me in the jaw!


Peon,

I'm pretty sure Otters just wanted to see you in a dress with tears streaming down your cheeks. [;)]




OttersSwim -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 11:09:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
...
Hmmm.  I don't know.  I understand and appreciate all the objections women have used on this forum to those men who've wanted 'forced feminisation' (etc, etc) - but I still have this lingering suspicion that many, perhaps most, women just find it somewhat disturbing to see men 'feminised'.  If I'm right - then, I freely admit I have no real clue as to why. 

Having followed the history of feminism for some time, though - and even taught it, at times - I have sometimes wondered if it's to do with the way women (need to) see men.  Something that's very, very basic indeed.  That is: that in some essential way they want to see men as 'fixed entities', solid and reliable, like rocks (however rough around the edges'.  Men might have their faults, but at least women can be clear of what they are.  My mother put it like this, once: 'I like my cats to be cattish, my dogs to be doggy, and boys to be boyish'.  (Why do women so often compare boys and men to dogs?)  'Boys will be boys', the saying goes.  I've often thought the subtext of that old line is 'boys should always be boys'. 

The history of feminism has been spectacularly successful at changing women's minds, IMO, but has shown itself to be a great deal less successful at changing men.  In fact, it's very often been extremely scathing about men's efforts to change - and never more so than when men have avowedly tried to 'feminise' themselves.  TBH, I don't think the will has entirely been there to do that.
...


So...now that the humor is out of the way...your post is really quite insightful!  [:)]

I think there are so many reasons for reaction to expressions of gender fluidity in males that it is impossible to pin it down to any one thing.  There are just as many types of gender expressions as there are Ladies to react to them - and each will be different and unique unto itself.

An interesting commonality that I have noted over the years however, is -intent-.  When you look at a male expressing female leanings, you have to ask yourself "Why are you doing this?"  It doesn't take terribly long to ferret out a few fairly common reasons in our community:

1.  Sexual gratification - being dressed in female clothing inspires sexual arousal
2.  Submission enhancement - being dressed in female clothing brings out deeper feelings of submission
3.  True Gender Dysphoria - being dressed in female clothing brings this some part of this person closer to their true self, thus inspires feelings of rightness, and self

When you take each of these reasons in turn and probe deeper into their specific "why" question then you discover things like:

1.  A Gender Bias - either dressing in female clothing brings out feelings of inferiority, or a closeness to superiority - each in its own way a misplaced (IMO) gender bias
2.  Historical Precedence/Trigger - something in their past caused or enhanced these feelings - often times, this can be intense emotionally powerful experiences, sometimes traumatic, sometimes positive.
3.  A Trope - Being dressed gives permission to bring into being/express feelings that their socialized male self will not allow.

Most are on a journey of self discovery and will traverse any or all of these reasons as they go along their journey.  I have experienced most of them myself.

Certainly combinations of these have the possibility to cause negative feelings in a female - especially a dominant female - sexual gratification, combined with a gender bias for instance.  Combine that with the clueless factor of not understanding at all where a dominant female is generally coming from and you have an explosive combination.

So there are my half-formed ideas - finger ejaculated while I am at work...if you flame me, be aware that I am already wearing a dress and don't cry nearly as easily as Peon does...but I will cry for cookies...  [;)]




OttersSwim -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 11:10:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Beware: if you shoot me down in flames, I shall instantly put on a dress and burst into tears.  Fair warning.  [;)]


Peon, you are totally wrong, shitfaced wrong here and I am surprised and shocked at your bald faced finger-ejaculation you posted above. 

P.S.  I expect pics of your tear stained face and your pretty dress in my cmail box by 5 p.m. Mountain Time today.  [;)]



Otters,

I'm really taken aback by your reaction.  I'm not into TV, nor 'forced-feminisation' and never have been; so, as I said, I'm playing with certain half-formed thoughts - no more.  I would of course defer to your practical experience.  You've lived something that I haven't.

What is it you object to about my post, exactly?  Educate me - don't whack me in the jaw!


Peon,

I'm pretty sure Otters just wanted to see you in a dress with tears streaming down your cheeks. [;)]


Totally! 

I guess my "flame" was too realistic!  Sorry P, I consider you a dear person and your thoughts on this topic were insightful! 




KITTYLECTRO -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 11:13:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iwearpanties
......

I agree with you about the negative replies, they are abundant as they are bigoted and unnecessary.

Fortunately, to the lower left of every post is a feature called "Hide".

I encourage you to use the "Hide" feature whenever you encounter these bigots (or their apologists) on this website.




PeonForHer -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 11:13:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Hmmm.  I don't know.  I understand and appreciate all the objections women have used on this forum to those men who've wanted 'forced feminisation' (etc, etc) - but I still have this lingering suspicion that many, perhaps most, women just find it somewhat disturbing to see men 'feminised'.  If I'm right - then, I freely admit I have no real clue as to why.

In My case, it's not that I object to it because it is disturbing.  It honestly has so much more to do with Me being straight and not be attracted to females or anyone feminized in a sexual way.  On a friendship basis, I'm fine with it.  I'll happily hang out and socialize with anyone who is expressing their fem side.  At the same time, if they are in their fem persona, I see them in the same way as I do any other female.  Yes, they may look very pretty.  Yes, I can appreciate all of the hard work and dedication that they went through in order to obtain a female appearance.  At the same time, I perceive them as female, which means that I don't have any sexual interest.



No, LP - I'd never have expected you, yourself, to say any different.  I think you're one of those rare few who've moved beyond such headaches.  One of those who've moved so far beyond such hang-ups that you come across as though you don't even understand why it's a hang-up in the first place.  God, seriously, I love it when rare Dommes - like you - make things look so damned straightforward.  You are a diamond.  [;)]




Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 11:18:37 AM)

Flame? I just wanna see you two kiss and grope and stuff.

As much as I prefer my boys to look like boys. I do not dislike those who want to dress as girls...depending of course on their attitude as to why they want to dress as girls.

Much like LadyPact, when a guy is dressed as a woman, I view him as a woman. I am not sexually attracted to women. I have no problem whatsoever helping a man, put on make-up, find proper fitting attire, and going out to a club and seeing who can get more phone numbers from other men. That to me, is fun...but, there is NO chance that I will want to dominate that person, or have any type of sexual fun with that person.

If however, I had a submissive partner who had the qualities I seek, and he had a fantasy and wanted to explore cross-dressing, I may occasionally humor him and let him dress up. During that time it would not be me forcing it upon him, or me using it as a form to control him, or any other such thing many who come here fantasize about. Instead, it would be me rewarding him, and allowing him to have something he wants. He would need to acknowledge that and realize that it does not get me hot, it does not make me feel superior, and it does not do anything for me other than make me happy to see him gain some enjoyment. Even so, it would be a very limited activity, because ultimately I want to feel aroused or excited when with my submissive partner.




PeonForHer -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 11:19:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwimTotally! 

I guess my "flame" was too realistic!  Sorry P, I consider you a dear person and your thoughts on this topic were insightful! 



Otters,

Thank you. 

But I've often thought you hold back too much. I think you're doing so now.  I'm not made of delicate porcelain:  please say what you think.  What you think has years of brains, as well as real-life experience, behind it.  So trot it out, sunshine!




OttersSwim -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 11:37:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KITTYLECTRO

quote:

ORIGINAL: iwearpanties
......

I agree with you about the negative replies, they are abundant as they are bigoted and unnecessary.

Fortunately, to the lower left of every post is a feature called "Hide".

I encourage you to use the "Hide" feature whenever you encounter these bigots (or their apologists) on this website.



No Kitty, I'm sorry but this time I am serious - you are wrong, shitfaced wrong about your belief that the Ladies here are in any way "bigoted" against crossdressing or gender fluidity in males.  An expression of preference is not bigotry - not by a long shot.  What we see in the fair expressions of preference are in actuality a representation of the overall population of dominant women - the majority are not gonna be into it.  And that is just how it is, and not bad at all for a male coming here to see that hard reality and hopefully realize that deeper thought is required.

There was a woman here a couple of years ago who -was- bigoted and came into every CD thread to express how she "just did not understand it" and how it creeped her out.  She has luckily sought posting solace elsewhere for a time at least.

What is abundant here are the clueless males coming here thinking that a dominant woman is nothing more than a life support system for their kink and presenting themselves as entirely self focused on that kink and only that kink and I can pull up dozens of threads that drive that point right through the heart of your argument.




PeonForHer -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 11:48:32 AM)

So, Otters, why has it worked out for you?  Why are you so different?

I'm asking you to explain - and try not to be frigging modest about it, like you usually are.  If you can manage that.  [;)]




LadyPact -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 12:56:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

quote:

ORIGINAL: KITTYLECTRO

quote:

ORIGINAL: iwearpanties
......

I agree with you about the negative replies, they are abundant as they are bigoted and unnecessary.

Fortunately, to the lower left of every post is a feature called "Hide".

I encourage you to use the "Hide" feature whenever you encounter these bigots (or their apologists) on this website.



No Kitty, I'm sorry but this time I am serious - you are wrong, shitfaced wrong about your belief that the Ladies here are in any way "bigoted" against crossdressing or gender fluidity in males.  An expression of preference is not bigotry - not by a long shot.  What we see in the fair expressions of preference are in actuality a representation of the overall population of dominant women - the majority are not gonna be into it.  And that is just how it is, and not bad at all for a male coming here to see that hard reality and hopefully realize that deeper thought is required.

There was a woman here a couple of years ago who -was- bigoted and came into every CD thread to express how she "just did not understand it" and how it creeped her out.  She has luckily sought posting solace elsewhere for a time at least.

What is abundant here are the clueless males coming here thinking that a dominant woman is nothing more than a life support system for their kink and presenting themselves as entirely self focused on that kink and only that kink and I can pull up dozens of threads that drive that point right through the heart of your argument.



As usual, Otters and I agree on the subject.  The tossing around of the word bigot is not only ridiculous, but it's also rather offensive.  I have a hard time believing that it would be used in the context of anyone else saying they are a straight male and therefor only attracted to females.  Would the same term be used in regard to any lesbian who wasn't sexually attracted to males?  Well, I certainly hope it wouldn't anyway.

I don't for a second believe that anyone out there is sexually attracted to every other person on the face of the planet.  That doesn't make it bigotry.  It means that, as individuals, we respond to others according to how we're wired.  Some things don't appeal to some of us, and frankly, that's good enough.  The fact that some people want to stamp their feet and say that everyone has to be sexually attracted to them because they think they are entitled to it, just doesn't work.






SweetDommes -> RE: Dressing a male (3/9/2010 12:56:49 PM)

For us, it's mostly along the same lines as LP. Even though Holly and I are totally in love with each other and devoted to each other ... it's the person inside the package that we love, not the package. In general, we are just not attracted to females. I can appreciate an attractive female without being attracted to her.

Most of the time, with the boys who come on here talking about dressing, it's degrading how they want to be dressed - they want to be turned into a mockery of femininity. That's offensive to me. If a boy truly wants to dress because he enjoys being feminine (like Otter, and somethingXclever who started a very well thought-out thread about crossdressing a while back), then that's fine. I'm happy to go out shopping with him, even if he doesn't quite pass. I'm happy to spend time with them in either attire - but don't expect me to be attracted or turned on by it.

The guys who come here and post definitely have a bad attitude about this. They expect that, because we are dominant females, we obviously want everyone to be women [:'(] and that, of course, we think that men have to be humiliated simply because they are men. There is that contradiction of wanting to be made into a female that is weak and the process is humiliating ... but they want to be made into that weak, humiliated female by a strong, confident female. It makes no sense. If they really feel that being made into a female is humiliating and makes them weak, then they should be looking for a man to do so, in my opinion. Go bug the Master's forum and see how well this bullshit goes over.




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