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ORIGINAL: Wolfspet

Dammit dude, I am not gonna follow you from forum to forum answering this

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I do not see it as an off/on switch that all.... to me it is more a question of the appropriate motivations/behaviors/needs/desires being expressed at any given situation.

Consider life like building that a house.  Alot of different materials and tools are needed to go into building a house.  Not to forget all the skills that are need to build the said house.  You need Carpenters, Electricians, Plumbers just for starters.  Maybe a designer as well as a drafter and/or architect.  Depending on what aspect of the house one is building, different skills, tools and materials are needed.  Life is much the same way.  We need alot of skills and tools and different materials to make our lives functioning.  Part of making our life is the relationships we incorporate into our lives.  Each relationship is like material/tool or skill needed to build the house.  The plumber doesn't have alot of use for the hammer in his tasks as compared to the carpenter,  or the wire cutters to the electrician.  But, all of them know how to use the a hammer or wire cutter... they don't turn of this skill.  It just isn't an appropriate tool for much of what they do.  Just like the slave/sub,  they don't turn off alot of the behaviors/protocals that they do in there primary relationship.  It is just that much of what they do isn't appropriate in the other interactions they do on a daily basis.  This is also not any different for Dominants/Masters.  We don't turn off who we are.... we just use the appropriate behaviors etc in the appropriate situations. 
 

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ORIGINAL: Wolfspet

Well, do me a favor and wait a day or two, he just refreshed the brand on my ass, and I am in enough pain.

Pretty please?

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ORIGINAL: la90066

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

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ORIGINAL: la90066
 It's simply the MENTAL aspect that's different.  The slave simply TRUSTS her Top more than the sub -- i.e., when instruction is given, the slave just "follows", where the sub may contemplate first, then follow -- or not.

You use the currency of "Trust" only to elevate the slave over the sub.  Granted a slave is very much what you and I may desire in our primary relationships, but it doesn't indicate slaves trust more than a subs.  It just means that our specific slaves will trust us more than others do... and we in turn trust them more as well.

Respectfully, one can not deny that the level of trust one has in another equates to the amount of control they are willing to hand over.  But more importantly, it is not I that am using "trust" as "currency", as you say -- others are -- nor have I stated that slave is better than sub, again... others are rushing to that judgement.

You and others are welcome to read that into my post, but that would be an incorrect assumption in my position.

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  Picture the circut breaker board from your house, the main line of power into the home is the M/s, cut it off, and nothing works. BUT...you can turn the individual breakers on and off at will without disrupting the main flow.

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ORIGINAL: la90066


Now, admittedly, I believe (and have been told) that my views on the Power Dynamic are somewhat different, shall we say, than most Doms/Masters on various kink sites -- but in truth, I feel my beliefs are simply more realistic and rewarding for both Top and bottom alike?!!

slave just "follows", where the sub may contemplate first, then follow -- or not.

This to me is where the confusion between sub and slave comes from, as there are MANY subs who trust to the same degree as a "slave" and just "follow", as the slave would --  example is those subs who refer to themselves as "slave-wired". 

So what's the difference then?  In my view, the difference is somewhere, somehow, someone started the notion that "slave = 24/7 kink" and "sub = part time kink".  And THERE, to me anyway, is the problem. You see, neither sub or slave, or Dom or Master for that matter, can physically be all kink, all day, every day -- that's just not realistic?!!

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ORIGINAL: la90066
Respectfully, I've already addrressed this... As I've already stated, it pertains to the PHYSICAL.  Tell me, does your sub/slave go to the grocery store or job interview or to her parents house on her knees?  No, she does not.  So yes, we do "turn off" and "turn on".

That is what I was referring to and was clear about it.

But again, thank you for your input and insight -- very much, actually!!!

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The above aside, the one area of my post that nobody has really commented on, however, is the sub who considers herself "slave-wired", but has hesitated to refer to herself as a "slave", again (and from my experience) because she believes she need give up everything in order to be a "slave", where I believe she doesn't -- as it's during the times she submits to her "natural role" that she can embrace her "inner-slave", if you will?!!
 
I would LOVE to hear commentary from others on this?

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ORIGINAL: feylin

Good evening:

I believe that there actually could be a physical difference between a D/s couple and a M/s couple -- subtle clues perhaps so I would hope to be allowed some time before making a guess.  Being able to only rely on what I have seen so far, the difference is fairly amazing once you have spent time with both types of couples. (I really do use the word types in a very general sense since everyone defines themself.) 

That's a good point.  I have spent time with both "types", though because I tend to be different, for lack of better expression, in how I interact with mine, that may have more to do with my position.  Good point... Thank you!

Now, if you said to me, "Look at this picture of two couples where one member of each was kneeling next to the other.  Which is the D/s couple and which is the M/s couple?"  I agree with you, I would not be able to tell from a one-dimensional visual.  But if we were at a party and you asked me which of these couples were which, I could make a fair and, I believe, accurate distinction.

Fair enough.

There is a different air to a slave in my opinion.  She (or he) may join in a conversation with me, may be the perfect hostess at a party but she always has an awareness of her Master's (or Mistress') presence, their comfort, their need.   That is what I usually zone in on as I people watch:  the focus part which often includes both subtle and overt physical clues -- but mostly it is in the eyes, that awareness.  Its not a weekend or Wednesday night kink.  It is not even a kink in my mind because of the combined mental and spiritual effects that go along with being in such a relationship because bondage, flogging, etc. may or may not play into it.  Its not the sight of a whip, the smell of a whip, the hint of a whip that gets you through the day.  Its just being.  Its not using profanity alone in the car on the drive home when traffic is a mess because you know that type of language is something your Master does not permit his slave to use.  Its remembering to pick up the dry cleaning in a jam-packed day because you want to be sure he has everything he needs for a business trip.  Very normal really, not a kink at all.  Just being.  It is not wearing panties to work because it pleases him.  It is not a fantasy, its not just following orders....its living as you want to be...for him.

Yes, I fully understand what you're saying, though I believ that may have less to do with whether one is a "sub" or "slave", as I've had "vanialla" women (I date both kink and 'nillas) act the same way.  So it may have more to do with the individual and less to do with the kink... possibly, anyway?

I really hope a submissive does not trust her Dominant any more or less than a slave trusts her Master.  While I agree that a Master/slave relationship might imply more committment, more long term because of the TPE, it surely cannot be applied to every couple or family; which you also pointed out in your post.  But even simple occasional play with occasional people should take on a greater importance for security than meeting up with mere acquaintances for the slave and submissive alike.  Why wouldn't you be absolutely sure you are with people who would do anything to protect your wellbeing when you allow yourself to be so vulnerable?

I think both "trust", but I do believe in order for one to turn over all control (or such a significant amount), the "slave" trusts more (or at the very least, seeks to trust more) -- which is neither better or worse, just different.

But the term "just follow" bothers me because it implies that a girl has no will and is mindless while she serves.  Perhaps you did not mean it as such, it was just that while I was reading the words I was put off by them.  There is real joy in serving, a fulfillment and what you might see as mindless following, she might see as joyful obedience.  Even when a command is boring, or exhausting, or frightening, or whatever, a slave might find happiness in begging for leniency or accomplishing whatever it is simply because it is pleasing.  I have not seen slaves roll their eyes, and drag themselves along to perform a task with dour faces and demeanors.  <smiles> I am sure those are out there, too, but I have not seen it yet. Nor have I seen tasks completed with blank stares and expressionless movements.  Perhaps I should just consider myself lucky on this point.   I have heard some good-natured grumbling from submissives which has sometimes been immediately corrected and sometimes allowed to pass.  The slaves I have witnessed simply seemed thrilled to be allowed to serve.

Yeah... I didn't mean it that way (i.e., doormat) -- I could have picked a better expression/word.  All I was trying to show was the trust element again.  But you're right, I certainly didn't mean to imply a lack of "will" -- in fact, I covered my beliefs on that in my "Side Note" rant.

I actually do not agree with the switch on/off  theory.  If the parties are in agreement about their relationship, I think their days can be spent keeping that commitment to each other...and are even able to do so with their clothes on. <grins>  Its not kink so much as just different goals than a purely equal vanilla relationship. 

I don't expect everyone to -- viva la differance, right?!!  BTW... Thank you for such a well thought out reply and contribution -- I VERY much appreciated reading it!

Best wishes,
christine

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

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ORIGINAL: la90066
Respectfully, I've already addrressed this... As I've already stated, it pertains to the PHYSICAL.  Tell me, does your sub/slave go to the grocery store or job interview or to her parents house on her knees?  No, she does not.  So yes, we do "turn off" and "turn on".

That is what I was referring to and was clear about it.

But again, thank you for your input and insight -- very much, actually!!!

you  miss the point.... It is the mental intellectual choices that are motivated towards a specific goal in any given situation.  The physical is irrelevant and doesn't indicate that one is a slave or a sub or that there thoughts are off or on. 

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ORIGINAL: denika

When I am at home with my husband we  don't interact on a slave Master level or even a Dom sub level, we are equals and that relationship doesn't make me any less of a submissive.

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ORIGINAL: la90066

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Yes, I do deny that fact.  The level of trust for the person has in another is indeed a motivating factor in what can be handed over... Complete Trust doesn't equate that a person will be a slave to another.  I trust my girls with my life and the life of my children... but yet I hand over not control what so ever.  It's one's intrinsic motivations/nature that will dictate the effects increased Trust will have on a relationship.  You make an assumption that complete Trust will result in more control being hand over.  I only state that "Trust" alone is never enough to cause the power shift to occur.

No, I make the argument that a slave has a greater degree of trust in another because she HAS to in order to hand over vital elements of her life.

Yes, I do believe you are making "Trust" a currency to elevate the Slave over a sub... and thus as a Master you imply your own elevation.  If you cann't take responsiblity for the logical implication of your words bring that is your issue and not mine or others  assumption or judgement.

So let me get this straight... I specifically tell you I do NOT hold this position, but you continue to maintain I do?!!  How silly.  Please speak only for yourself as you are not me. 
 
And no, I'm not about to "take responsibility" for a position YOU think I have, despite your Toppy leather pants.  Nonsense.

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ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel

LA, I know what you mean, exactly. We all compartmentalize. We work, we deal with waitresses who only want a 20% tip (okay, so I only give 15%) and could care less if you have a sub.

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ORIGINAL: champagnewishes

I just happen to fall within that minute percentage that by esoteric interests alone, put us outside your definition.  aka the exception to the norm or at least the majority in this case.