Mistress vs. Vanilla (Full Version)

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WantingToServe11 -> Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 1:46:32 AM)

I have one of those friends which is one of those guys that know how to pick up a girl in almost any situation. I asked him how he does this and he says he does this by always being some what cocky, showing a lack of interest in the certain parts of the conversation, being humorous, and being charismatic. 

There were two things that I found to be very interesting in what he said. The first is being "cocky." I've always thought that women don't like men that are too confident. So I asked him how being being arrogant helps. His reply is " you can't let the girl think she is the prize rather make her think you are the prize." Then I asked him how showing a lack of interest in the girl helps. He said " For instance, if you walk up to a group of girls. Talks to all the other girls other than your main target. Let the one you want work to gain attention from you then act accordingly."

Now, I'm not saying that all women find this guys charm to be irresistible. But, he knows how to get a phone number; he knows how to pick girls up at the clubs, and he's very fast acting in his actions to every response the girl gives him. I mean, he knows how to pick up women, and it's obvious.

Now my question to you ladies is. Have you ever fallen for this sort of man but with him being a submissive version of this? Would you find this type of "submissive" to be attractive? Have you ever ran in to this type of submissive before?

The reason why I ask is because all of you claim to be normal women (which I believe to be true) but there must be some differences between what you all want in a man vs. a vanilla women other then the man having interests in fetishes.



chellekitty -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 1:49:37 AM)

I don't really have a comment other than this.....

You said he can get women...but can he keep them?



WantingToServe11 -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 1:52:11 AM)

Well, he did have a girl friend for a while. She wanted to do the whole move in thing with him. But of course, he wasn't interested in this at all.



SweetDommes -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 1:54:45 AM)

I've run into guys like him. I tend to ignore them. I don't know why some women are interested in that kind of nonsense and game-playing ... I think it's silly. I don't expect a guy to fawn over me, or anything like that ... but if he is honestly not interested in a conversation, then change the topic, and if he's "cocky" then I tend to feel like taking him down a peg or two before walking away. And if someone is ignoring me in favor of other ladies, I feel like they are not worth my time - if they don't want to take the time to get to know me, then they obviously aren't interested enough.

His advice on being charismatic is spot on, however. If you want people to be interested, then you need to be interesting. Having a sense of humor is a definite plus, as is knowing when it's appropriate to use it. Someone who thinks he has to be the funny man on every topic is going to be dismissed as either clueless, or trying too hard.



WantingToServe11 -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 1:57:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

I've run into guys like him.


I'm sure you've ran into guys like him. But have you ran in to a submissive like him?



SweetDommes -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 1:59:15 AM)

Didn't stick around long enough to find out how they identified. When I see a guy like him, I think "player" and move on.



chellekitty -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 2:05:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WantingToServe11

Well, he did have a girl friend for a while. She wanted to do the whole move in thing with him. But of course, he wasn't interested in this at all.



Ok, maybe I had more to say than I thought...

Would I be interested in a submissive who played games to "pick me up"? No...I like honesty...and just for the record I don't think anyone is "the prize"

Furthermore, would I be interested in a guy who seems to be about quantity rather than quality? Not interested in being a notch on the head board...



SweetDommes -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 2:09:17 AM)

Amen to that, chelle - which is why I don't stick around to find out how they claim to identify. Guys like that will claim to be whatever they think will get them into your pants fastest. That's most of the reason that Holly and I have never gone to bars and clubs - no desire to subject ourselves to that kind of thing. It's enough of a meat market online - bars and clubs are even worse.



chellekitty -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 2:10:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WantingToServe11

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

I've run into guys like him.


I'm sure you've ran into guys like him. But have you ran in to a submissive like him?



Most submissives I know (and Dominants, and come to think of it, most of the vanillas I know outside of bars) wouldn't play that particular game...at least not and not be called on it...and subsequently "shunned" because of it



LadyPact -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 3:27:24 AM)

I think it was nailed in the above.  It's a game.  How old is your friend? 

Personally, a submissive with a cocky attitude wouldn't work for Me at all.  Yes, a person should be confident about who they are, but there's a difference between that and what you are describing here.  I'm also not the type to attempt to get attention from someone who doesn't seem interested.  I get more than enough.   Someone who would be talking to the others in a group of folks more than Me would just give Me more of an opportunity to socialize with those who wanted to hold a conversation.

Feigning non interest in a Dominant female isn't the best idea for a submissive.  If you snooze, you lose and there will be a submissive who will make his interests known.



Politesub53 -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 3:49:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WantingToServe11

I'm sure you've ran into guys like him. But have you ran in to a submissive like him?



How is ignoring a Dominant woman, submissive behaviour ? The first thing she would note is that you dont listen to what she is saying. The second is that your cockiness then comes across as disinterest. Strike three, you would come across as hard work.

Why would a Mistress, see this as some sort of prize catch ?

quote:


but there must be some differences between what you all want in a man vs. a vanilla women other then the man having interests in fetishes.


The obvious difference is a Mistress wants a man with a more submissive personality. That said, Vanilla women dont all want domineering men either. Many look for the quieter types of guys. The things all women want in a man are honesty, manners, a sense of humour and a brain.

My own advice is if you want to come across as submissive, stop trying to copy your friend.



slavekal -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 5:44:28 AM)

Women often don't know what they want.  Whenever models are interviewed, they say that they want a guy with a sense of humor, etc.  Notice who they really date.  



Tantriqu -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 6:50:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

Women often don't know what they want.  Whenever models are interviewed, they say that they want a guy with a sense of humor, etc.  Notice who they really date.  


Actually Domme women know eeezackly what we want. Models are unlikely to be dommely: obsessed not only with their appearance which is manly [most models look like your best male friend from high school with bulimia, hair extensions and boob implants : 6' tall, no hips, angular jaws, big feet, but also with what people say and think about their bodies, so they deny their drives and appetites.
There's a reason most lifestyle Dommes are fluffy! We revel in our sexuality and appetites. We also don't need someone to buy us drinks or yachts.

So to the OP: lifestyle Dommes wouldn't be interested in a cocky sub aka smart-ass bottom. We also eye-roll, point and laugh at that skanky playah behaviour like your friend's. It makes my crop-hand twitch, but I wouldn't give them the satisfaction.
As been said, we want someone who knows who he is and what he wants, but that also means someone who is polite and tries to ascertain what WE want, and yes, absolutely, who has a sense of humour, but who laughs at what WE say, not just what he says.
So in three/five/ten years, you'll be in a good relationship, and your friend and his hepatitis will be unhappy and alone unless he can buy an escort. Karma's a prick.



LadyAngelika -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 8:15:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WantingToServe11

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

I've run into guys like him.


I'm sure you've ran into guys like him. But have you ran in to a submissive like him?



Yes I have. They usually don't use insults however. They have other techniques. I did somewhat fall into this trap about 5 years ago. I'm glad I noticed the pattern.

Today I see boys like that coming a mile away. It is funny that you mention this particular topic as the cheesy movie "Ghosts from girlfriends past" was playing on a movie channel last night. I was having a giggle at the cliché aspect of the film. But the film got one thing right: when you friend falls in love for real, his stupid ways will get in the way of him getting the girl and finding true happiness.

- LA



WantingToServe11 -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 8:36:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The obvious difference is a Mistress wants a man with a more submissive personality. That said, Vanilla women dont all want domineering men either. Many look for the quieter types of guys. The things all women want in a man are honesty, manners, a sense of humour and a brain.

My own advice is if you want to come across as submissive, stop trying to copy your friend.


I appreciate the advice, but I didn't say that I copied him anywhere in the profile therefore there was no need for you to assume that I copied him.



CarrieO -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 9:21:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WantingToServe11

I have one of those friends which is one of those guys that know how to pick up a girl in almost any situation. I asked him how he does this and he says he does this by always being some what cocky, showing a lack of interest in the certain parts of the conversation, being humorous, and being charismatic. 

There were two things that I found to be very interesting in what he said. The first is being "cocky." I've always thought that women don't like men that are too confident. So I asked him how being being arrogant helps. His reply is " you can't let the girl think she is the prize rather make her think you are the prize." Then I asked him how showing a lack of interest in the girl helps. He said " For instance, if you walk up to a group of girls. Talks to all the other girls other than your main target. Let the one you want work to gain attention from you then act accordingly."
 
I wanted to address the bolded portions above.  You mention your friend's use of "cockiness" and lack of interest, I would like to share something with you that might help you to see why in the long run this behavior could yield less than expected results.  My "something" is from an article on confident vs cocky in Sales...
(I apologize for the length, I have cut out the obvious business-related bullet points)
  • Confidence is being honest and upfront regardless of the consequences. Cockiness is only disclosing the good stuff (and hiding the bad).


  • Confidence is focused outward. Cockiness is focused inward.


  • Confidence is being yourself. Cockiness is being what you want others to see.


  • Confidence is giving a new contact your attention at a networking event. Cockiness is constantly scanning the room for better prey. (This point relates to your friend's suggestion of showing lack of interest)


  • Confidence is asking the right questions. Cockiness is making big statements.


  • Confidence is laughing at your own mistakes. Cockiness is laughing at your own jokes.

  • Confidence is knowing you're a great salesperson. Cockiness is making sure everyone else thinks you are within the first five minutes of meeting them.  (I left this one in...simply remove the sales reference)



Confidence is sexy....cockiness, regardless of how the person identifies themselves, is not.

Now, I'm not saying that all women find this guys charm to be irresistible. But, he knows how to get a phone number; he knows how to pick girls up at the clubs, and he's very fast acting in his actions to every response the girl gives him. I mean, he knows how to pick up women, and it's obvious.

Being a pick-up artist is easy...anyone can sharpen those skills and get a number or two.  Will he still be talking with that person 2 or 3 months down the road?  What is the goal of the player?

Now my question to you ladies is. Have you ever fallen for this sort of man but with him being a submissive version of this? Would you find this type of "submissive" to be attractive? Have you ever ran in to this type of submissive before?

I've known men like this, they've usually identifed as dominant (this IS NOT a blanket statement against all dominant men).
The men I've know who say they identify as submissive and act this way still have fallen under the label of player.  No, I don't find this type of behavior attractive in anyone...regardless of how they identify. 

The reason why I ask is because all of you claim to be normal women (which I believe to be true) but there must be some differences between what you all want in a man vs. a vanilla women other then the man having interests in fetishes.

I can't speak for other women.  What's "normal"?  I think you'll find most women are attracted to men who can think outside of their fantasies and fetishes...unless what they want is strictly play and no relationship of any kind, even friendship.  It would be so much easier if there were some set of guidelines or a definition that fit ALL women, regardless of orientation.  Men could turn to page 75 in some book and read the desires and expectations of all dominant women....but it doesn't work that way. 
 
 Regardless of kink...you're still dealing with an individual.



*edited for clarification*



PeonForHer -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 11:17:52 AM)

If your friend really is a hit with the ladies, WTS, I'm willing to bet that it's got very little to do with what he imagines are his techniques.  There'll be something about him that disarms and charms women and I have a strong feeling he won't even be conscious of what that is.  But, whatever, I also think it's useless to try to copy another male.  That almost never works. 



Voodali -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 11:53:44 AM)

     This is a really interesting topic to me.  I often happen across advice telling guys who want to "pick up beautiful women" that they need to be douchebags.  I have often boggled over this approach, though there may be something to it, where a certain kind of woman is concerned. Maybe its because I have never been the stereotypical "beautiful woman" by today's rather high standards. The sites and books that dole out such advice often add the adjective "beautiful".  Not "Pick up Intelligent Women" or "Pick up Average Looking but Compatible Women" and certainly not "Pick up Dominant Women". Maybe model types do prefer this behavior because they are accustomed to people fawning over them, and they crave something different.  I wouldn't know. As for me, and probably some others like me, I have chosen to label myself as Dominant because I LOVE boys fawning over me, and I want MORE !
    I never could fathom why any woman would chose neglect and emotional abuse over respect and attention.  I do believe that a lot of my female vanilla friends claim to want a "man", someone who will occasionally put them in their place, who will make the plans and not fawn over them excessively, but I do not understand this at all.
  If I meet a man socially, and he is paying attention to everyone but me, I will assume that he's not interested in me, and I will not see him as a prospect.  I'll probably just think he's an ass.
The kinds of boys I have really fallen for are the ones who are sweet, humble, attentive, good with a compliment, blatant about their attraction to me in a classy way, and somewhat nerdy.  Big egos are a HUGE turnoff.  If he thinks he's the prize, he's not.



PeonForHer -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 12:13:00 PM)

If he thinks he's the prize, he's not.
 
At a deeper level that doesn't even make sense to me, Voodali.  Seriously, if a man thinks he's that much of a prize, why even bother with a woman - any woman?  If he himself is the prize, then he's already 'won' himself.  Any approach to any woman is going to feel somewhat empty and pointless at best.

I've read stuff, and seen programmes about, 'how to pick up women in huge quantities'.  I've tried it, in small ways, too.  The bottom line is always the same: a man can do this kind of thing, but the unspoken cost is a large portion of his soul.  He'll have to look, act, and even be, in many ways, that which he is not.  It's ultimately a soulless, bleak and miserable experience.  You add notches to your bedpost, but get that bit more depressed each time you 'score'.  




VaguelyCurious -> RE: Mistress vs. Vanilla (3/7/2010 12:32:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

If he thinks he's the prize, he's not.
 
At a deeper level that doesn't even make sense to me, Voodali.  Seriously, if a man thinks he's that much of a prize, why even bother with a woman - any woman?  If he himself is the prize, then he's already 'won' himself.  Any approach to any woman is going to feel somewhat empty and pointless at best.


Nah-because you (generic you-not you you) will always need recomfirmation that you really are the prize-and that means women chasing after you. As many women as possible...



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