Intervening For An Employee (Full Version)

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beej -> Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 3:14:13 PM)

over a week ago, a guy came into our business to play dominoes with my granny. it's a small family business in a small family town, so it was very charming and not unusual. granny loves to throw her bones. he was here for a few hours out in front, and the only other person there was the girl who works the register. i was in my office or out running errands. after the dude left, register girl comes in to my office and says, "i didn't want to say anything in front of your granny, but he was talking nasty to me!" i asked her what he'd said, and he'd made several very explicit sexual overtures. then she said, " i told him i have a man at home." i asked her if she'd told him to fuck off, and she said, "yeah, i told him i didn't want his number, wasn't going to call his number, puh-lease." i said, "that's happened to me when i'm behind the register, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't tear a strip off his hide. don't put up with that," because it seemed to me like she had been sexually harassed and wasn't understanding that. i said, "i'll take care of it," and she said, "no, that's okay." then she kind of laughed and said, "you've seen my man. i wouldn't want his ugly ass anyway."

today, i made a lunch run, and when i came back, the dominoes guy was here talking to register girl. i didn't eavesdrop, but i went into the office to watch on my security monitor (which unfortunately does not have audio). it didn't look like anything untoward had happened, but as soon as he left, she came into my office and laughingly reported more of the same as last time. i said to her, "you shouldn't let him talk to you like that or else whenever he comes in here, he's going to do it. don't put up with that; i don't care if it's the mayor. cuss his ass out if you need to, or i can." she declined again.

now i'm wondering if there's something more that i should do. she brought it up to me as a personal matter and not as an official complaint, so is it sexual harassment in a way that i'm supposed to act on? i feel that it is harassment in a way that she's not understanding, but i'm not sure how to get that through to her. then what if he comes in and does it again, am i not supposed to jump down his throat because she told me not to?



MsLadySue -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 3:36:41 PM)

I'm not sure what the right answer is but personally I would quietly speak to the man and tell him he's already been told his advances weren't welcome and insist he stop sexually harrassing your staff.



kiwisub12 -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 4:01:48 PM)

You can't get in trouble by intervening. I agree with MLS - politely asking him to cease and desist isn't out of line. And if your employee comes back later and says she notified you that she was being harassed,and you didn't do anything and she is going to sue, you can say that you did intervene. I would also document all of this and keep it. I might be paranoid but too much is better than too little.



BlueEyedSubinDE -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 4:10:14 PM)

Did she mention it to you at work? If so, then it is a case of an employee has mentioned something personal to her supervisor/manager. And as someone else said, if she has mentioned it to you and you do nothing she might be able to sue you for sexual harrassment. As you said, you have their discussions on video with no sound.

What is more important, keeping your business or sparing some mild embarrassment?



beej -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 4:27:51 PM)

well, mostly i would a) like it to stop happening, and b) make sure this girl realizes the nature of what was going on. i hope she's not tolerating this all the time and this is just the first i've heard about it. i don't mind getting involved, i just dunno if there is an appropriate way to do it. if she isn't going to defend herself in general, supposed i get in this guy's face, and then he takes it out on her later? i wasn't raised a Southerner, so whereas the city in me will get in a guy's face quick over anything, the Belles do things with honey or whatever that phrase is. i don't want to assume that she doesn't know what's going on (she's 28 not 18), but i dunno. it just doesn't feel right. her reaction seems odd to me. from what she said, he wasn't just hitting on her, you know? but she's acting like he was just hitting on her, so do i have a right to get righteous? because it didn't happen to me, after all.



beej -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 4:29:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueEyedSubinDE

Did she mention it to you at work?


yes, it was at work.



BlueEyedSubinDE -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 4:46:50 PM)

So again, what is more important? Your business or some possible hurt feelings or embarrassment?

Because what you have is an employee who has reported - be it official or unofficial - sexual harrassment.

Stop trying to please everyone with what if's that you can't control. Stop justifying you not doing anything by coming up with 800 different what if's.

Have an official meeting with her and ask her for all details including what she expects you as her employer to do, write it up and both of you sign it. It's not 100% protection for you, but it is proof that you are aware and willing to resolve the situation. Once you have the details, then next time he comes in, you politely and firmly tell him that you do not appreciate the way he treats your employees and his buisiness is no longer welcome. Have your cell phone in your hand and should he even blink, call 911.

You have an obligation to protect your employees AND your business from unwanted harrassment. If you don't, then the employee can sue you. Do you want other customers to hear him?




mstrj69 -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 5:07:13 PM)

I agree the courts will tend to take the employee's side if you do nothing. At the same time, you can walk in on their conversationa and see what you hear being said or try to do it discretely. Also, you can stop him and ask him what is he saying. You can then politely tell him what has been said as to what his remarks were and that you do not appreciate it and will not accept it in your place of business. From all you know, she could have started it by flirting with him and now has changed her mind.

You can tell him playing dominoes with granny is fine but playing with the help is not.[/size]



heartcream -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 5:17:33 PM)

Maybe there will be an opening for you to quietly talk to the guy. You counsel your employee to not take that shite so be a role model and dont take it either! I would stick up for my staff.



LiveFreeAndSpank -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 5:22:22 PM)


Fire Her NOW



domiguy -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 5:23:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

Maybe there will be an opening for you to quietly talk to the guy. I would stick up for my staff.


So, you would fuck the guy?



SweetDommes -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 5:28:49 PM)

Before saying anything to him, I'd listen to what is actually being said. Then you have a reason for stepping in and telling him to shove off if he really is saying inappropriate things.



DarkSteven -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 5:30:31 PM)

You may want to speak to her as well.  If she's offended, she needs to show it.  It sounds like the guy thinks that he's being encouraged.



purepleasure -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 5:35:08 PM)

I would start spending more time near the register, to observe how your customers and staff interact.

In your opening remarks, you mentioned that granny likes to "throw her bones", which to someone that does not play dominoes could sound sexually suggestive. Your customer may have invited your counter help to play dominoes.



ricken -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 5:39:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

You may want to speak to her as well.  If she's offended, she needs to show it.  It sounds like the guy thinks that he's being encouraged.


I have to agree here, she came to you twice, but then she said she didn't want you  to get involved...kind of makes no sense to me. Watch her she just might like drama.



DesFIP -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 5:49:03 PM)

Next time he comes in, you stand by the register. If he isn't doing business, he shouldn't be bothering your staff. I'd just ask him to leave.



LafayetteLady -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 6:20:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: beej

well, mostly i would a) like it to stop happening, and b) make sure this girl realizes the nature of what was going on. i hope she's not tolerating this all the time and this is just the first i've heard about it. i don't mind getting involved, i just dunno if there is an appropriate way to do it. if she isn't going to defend herself in general, supposed i get in this guy's face, and then he takes it out on her later? i wasn't raised a Southerner, so whereas the city in me will get in a guy's face quick over anything, the Belles do things with honey or whatever that phrase is. i don't want to assume that she doesn't know what's going on (she's 28 not 18), but i dunno. it just doesn't feel right. her reaction seems odd to me. from what she said, he wasn't just hitting on her, you know? but she's acting like he was just hitting on her, so do i have a right to get righteous? because it didn't happen to me, after all.


Ok, but here is the problem....you don't really know what is happening, only what the girl is telling you. Obviously, the family business is some type of retail business, since you have a register. She said he made sexually explicit overtures, but you didn't mention if she told you what they were.

How long has she worked for your family? How long have you been involved in the family business (since you say you are a "city girl")? When you were watching the video, did his body language indicate that he was coming on to her? Realistically, you should be able to tell by his body language. Her not wanting you to say something is a bit odd since she is making a point of telling you what is happening. You and her are close in age, she could have some issues of her own wanting you to know that men find her attractive. She could want to see how you react, as others have said, possibly a bit of a attention seeker.

The problem is you have nothing but her say so that the guy is saying anything inappropriate. You have given no indication that you know her well enough to know what she finds offensive. If the guy was simply asking her for her phone number or out on a date, that does not meet the standard of proof for sexual harassment. But you have no idea what was actually said. What about granny? She was there, what did she hear? You might want to ask granny what she heard. In this case, the liklihood of her actually having a valid case for sexual harassment is slim. No one else is hearing the conversation. She is pointedly asking you NOT to say anything to the guy. In such a case, the guy would have to be called in as a witness and you can bet your ass he isn't going to say he said anything inappropriate. Granny is sitting right there and she isn't upset by it (which you think she might be). A sexual harassment case here is a big loser. It would cost her more for an attorney than a lawsuit is worth.

If the guy comes back, I would stick inconspicuously within hearing distance to find out exactly what he is saying. If he is saying something inappropriate, don't wait for her permission, take charge and let him know. Is this guy a regular or is he new? There are all kinds of ways to look at this, but honestly, none of them are likely to add up to a sexual harassment suit that the girl can win. In the meantime, you have the ability to listen in to what is being said, ask granny and talk with anyone else who might be familiar with this guy since you said you are in a small town.



heartcream -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/12/2010 7:03:04 PM)

Yeah find out what is going in if you can and then if he is being harasssssive then ask him to stop or suffer the consquences.



Fitznicely -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/13/2010 1:21:48 AM)

Not to be nasty, but I don't think you're listening to what your employee is saying. She isn't making a complaint, just making conversation. Some people can handle their own shit. allow your employee the dignity of handling it herself. It's not your job to tell her how she should be feeling.



LadyEllen -> RE: Intervening For An Employee (3/13/2010 6:26:44 AM)

Whatever you do, cover your own backside.

Write a memo (or a more formal letter) to all staff (or just her if she's the only one) to remind them of your policies as an employer, including the policy as regards sexual harassment by other staff and customers. Ensure staff are informed that you do not tolerate sexual harassment (et al) in the workplace and that they are under a duty to report it - formally (in writing) should they experience it, on which an investigation shall follow and appropriate remedial action taken - just as you are under a duty to take action should it come to light.

Are staff under such a duty? Absolutely, and just as they are also under a duty to report dangerous working conditions. Should they then fail to report then (in English law at least) there may be a degree of contributory negligence such that this mitigates or entirely extinguishes any claim against you as the employer. But, it is vital to ensure this duty is communicated clearly to them.

If you dont have an "employee handbook" or something similar incorporated into your employment contracts, which makes you compliant with employment law and mitigates your liabilities - importantly the onus is on you to show you took all reasonable precautions, exercised reasonable supervision and carried out all reasonable remedial action - then get one, and have staff sign to say they have received it, read it and understood it. Get someone to help you if needed, though there is "Employment Law for Small Businesses for Dummies" available, and this will guide you through what you need to do - you could even rope in your insurers to help perhaps, as its their potential losses this will mitigate.

As an aside, I would also check about your potential liabilities and insurance coverage as regards folks dropping by to play dominoes with grandma in the workplace. I would seriously doubt your insurance covers you for recreational activities for non staff and non customers like this, unless you have specifically advised it, and you owe a duty of care to both.

E



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