RE: Public Schools

RE: Public Schools (Full Version)

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subfever -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 5:12:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: I can't agree with you here. A healthy self-esteem needs to be nurtured from a young age. If I were the king of the world, I would create a system that education would be proud to reflect. You seem to be under the belief that the school system is at fault for the lack of self esteem, for the problems with education as well as later in life. If that is your position, can you please explain how you came to that conclusion? I'm not under that belief at all. If you've read my earlier posts, you would have read my claim that education is a reflection of our economic system. So my use of the above-highlighted word "system" meant economic system, not educational system.

tazzygirl -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 5:16:43 PM)
Lets try this another way. What is it you expect from the educational system?

subfever -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 5:32:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And yet when the concept of finance being taught to children was brought up... the response was.. how dare we! Sounds a bit... ummm... yeah... not gonna say it.. but you know what i mean. Yes, if I recall that post correctly, it was about teaching the kids to invest in stocks in 3rd grade. quote: You many also want to read my post to julia about my son and my own history with such things. I was hard on him, i was not harsh. Nor did i coddle. Nor did i allow him to use his learning disability as an excuse as i have seen so many other parents do. I have no doubt that you did what you believed best. quote: Children need to learn consequences. Indeed they do. I don't believe we've had any disagreement there. quote: Telling a child that a family suffers because of his actions wont go far especially as they grow older and learn the truth about coporations and finance. Sorry, I don't agree. By the time a child learns about corporations and finance, he should already have learned and embraced the moral code. This worked for my family. quote: There is also such a thing as a healthy level of fear. Indeed, a child should understand fear in terms of risks to personal safety and health. I do not agree that fear of physical punishment is the healthy and ideal method. YMMV.

tazzygirl -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 5:38:12 PM)
And i was first introduced to voting in 4th grade. I dont see either as wrong. quote: There is also such a thing as a healthy level of fear. quote: Indeed, a child should understand fear in terms of risks to personal safety and health. I do not agree that fear of physical punishment is the healthy and ideal method. YMMV. Why not? Is that not a consequence one can face when one becomes an adult?

subfever -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 5:38:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Lets try this another way. What is it you expect from the educational system? Education reflects on our economic system. Therefore, trying to overhaul education would be an exercise in futility. Problems in education are symptoms, not causes.

tazzygirl -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 5:40:31 PM)
And the cause is? yet you cannot lable the symptoms in order for a diagnosis of the problem.

subfever -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 5:44:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And i was first introduced to voting in 4th grade. I dont see either as wrong. quote: There is also such a thing as a healthy level of fear. quote: Indeed, a child should understand fear in terms of risks to personal safety and health. I do not agree that fear of physical punishment is the healthy and ideal method. YMMV. Why not? Is that not a consequence one can face when one becomes an adult? From the manner you've laid out your post, I'm not sure what you're asking why not to.

tazzygirl -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 5:46:25 PM)
I think i will wait for you to catch up on my posts.

takemeforyourown -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 5:48:47 PM)
As I've said, public schools teach what the government wants children to know. If that is not what you want your children to know, teach them to think for themselves.

tazzygirl -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 5:53:22 PM)
Children learn what they are exposed too. I cannot imagine a school teaching a child how to shoot a gun... yet many know. It is my opinion that we do children a huge disservice by not teaching them the fundamentals. Once they hit highschool, they should be encouraged to think for themselves, to begin making their own way, to discover what it is that makes them tingle. But to tell a child who is dead set on becoming the next Beyonce, and who cannot carry a tune in a bucket, that they have every right to follow the course, and to encourage them to do so, is letting that child down and setting them up for a huge failure. In such a situation, the school is not to blame.

juliaoceania -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 5:53:34 PM)
quote: my only requirement for his education is that he makes enough at what he chooses to do to support himself. i personally find it sad that you would wish anyone to live on grants while pursuing a career that may never pan out for that person. i still havent discovered what your issue is exactly with schools. you seem to be utilizing the system you state you hate for your own benefit, yet decry the notion that you are "forced" to do so. that part still confuses me. I have never personally attacked you, and you are personally attacking me... I stated in an earlier post that the public school system served me well, and my son went to the same school with almost the same result as I had until he was in 6th grade when we moved. My son is highly literate, well educated, and intelligent... he also has an affinity for computers even though they wanted him to play football (all 6 foot 4 over 220lbs of him), He is popular, kind, and I think he is the best person I have ever known... He is as fine a person as my parents were/are and he is my complete and total heart. I have more respect for him than anyone else outside of my mother... who is the other half of my heart... My problem with public schools is the hurt and pain I have seen associated with them.. do you think that school shootings are only the parents fault or the kids fault? I don't. I know things my son told me about people he went to school with, and I have issues with the structure of the schools which I do not believe further happiness or security... As far as your opinion about my education, well I suppose that is your opinion... which matters not to me. I pay my bills, you don't, so what do I care what you think? I worked my butt off for what I have, the same as you, but I work with my brain so you do not think that is of value... many others disagree with you, which is why I can do what I do. Perhaps that threatens you, people doing what they want to do, well... too bad.

juliaoceania -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 5:57:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And i was first introduced to voting in 4th grade. I dont see either as wrong. quote: There is also such a thing as a healthy level of fear. quote: Indeed, a child should understand fear in terms of risks to personal safety and health. I do not agree that fear of physical punishment is the healthy and ideal method. YMMV. Why not? Is that not a consequence one can face when one becomes an adult? I did not think it was appropriate to teach my son about credit cards in the third grade. I also do not think it is appropriate for credit card companies to market to college kids on college campuses... I suppose we will have to agree to disagree... see how that works... I did not get all personal and attack your profession or your life or your family or anything... try it sometime.

tazzygirl -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 6:00:11 PM)
quote: Funny, I was not raised with a lot of fear and I didn't steal anything. My son was not raised as you suggest and yet he isn't a thief. My parents did not want to raise me to be petrified of authority, and I certainly raised my son to question authority....and I would say your analysis of most children is sadly mistaken, is that how you view your own kids? My son feared disappointing me far more than he feared my wrath, but then I was always a soft touch and he loves that about me... he even respects it. Not all kids are adversaries to their parents, most kids want to please them even more than they want to please their friends... I assume you are talking about teens... Like I said, I do not know what universe you inhabit where kids are all out breaking laws, dissing on their parents, and generally only care what their peers think, but it is not the same universe I inhabit... thank God! I adore young people... they are our future, and there is nothing wrong with them, but there is a hell of a lot wrong with viewing them as the enemy. We also disagree on what is an attack. Enjoy your evening, julia. I have tried to have a discussion. I wont be pulled into your anger party.

juliaoceania -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 6:04:48 PM)
quote: We also disagree on what is an attack. Enjoy your evening, julia. I have tried to have a discussion. I wont be pulled into your anger party. Anger party?.... all I have done is state an opinion and profess my love for my child and mother, and state that I can do what I do because other people see value in what I do... and that is somehow angry? You just got personal and I called you on it... if that is "angry" to you I wonder how you would react to someone that was really mad I am not angry... sad that you are so locked in and defensive you can't understand my positions and needed to get personal and berate my vocation... and I have a vocation.... I have actually made money at my profession...

tazzygirl -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 6:07:01 PM)
No one "got personal". I simply stated my confusion in hopes you would clear things up. You have been extremely muddy about what you believe the true problems are, or how you would solve them. If thats personal... If its too personal asking about information you bring up in a thread.. then dont offer that information. Step back from defensive mode and realize not everyone is out to attack you.

juliaoceania -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 6:07:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subfever quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Lets try this another way. What is it you expect from the educational system? Education reflects on our economic system. Therefore, trying to overhaul education would be an exercise in futility. Problems in education are symptoms, not causes. I think this is the crux of the matter...

subfever -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 6:08:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And the cause is? yet you cannot lable the symptoms in order for a diagnosis of the problem. The cause is the outdated and hopelessly corrupt economic system, largely based upon fear and greed.

tazzygirl -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 6:09:23 PM)
And yet, neither of you will expand. In order to find a cure, the symptoms must be presented, the causes discovered, before any hopes of curing the "disease" can even be thought about.

Musicmystery -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 6:09:32 PM)
quote: Like I said, I do not know what universe you inhabit where kids are all out breaking laws, dissing on their parents, and generally only care what their peers think, but it is not the same universe I inhabit... thank God! I adore young people... they are our future, and there is nothing wrong with them, but there is a hell of a lot wrong with viewing them as the enemy. Good grief, julia. Try to stay in the same universe. No one is claiming children are the enemy, and it's disingenuous of you to misrepresent things that way.

tazzygirl -> RE: Public Schools (3/14/2010 6:10:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subfever quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And the cause is? yet you cannot lable the symptoms in order for a diagnosis of the problem. The cause is the outdated and hopelessly corrupt economic system, largely based upon fear and greed. Expand a bit more, please. Whose greed? Whose fear? And how are these affecting the educational system?

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