RE: Confused Sub men?

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Lashra -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/14/2010 2:58:06 PM)
I try to help them find out what path they want to walk down, if I can. Personally I could not deal with a man who was submissive in the bedroom, only to step outside of it and think he was king of the castle, it just would not work, there would be too much head butting going on. As I have told many a "curious" male sub, do some soul searching about who you are and what you want out of life. ~Lashra

LunarBull -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/14/2010 3:36:45 PM)
I read about this topic on the home page and wanted to share my opinion. From my perspective, it is natural for a male to be confused. In America, societal upbringing has conditioned men to take a leadership role in all aspects of life. Eventually, self-assured and confident men will find their way. I spent the past year in a relationship as a submissive. This was both in the bedroom and out. I surrendered entirely to her. This means 100% to her wants and needs. My joy came from pleasing her. I actually found greater satisfaction taking care of her needs outside the bedroom. I was very clear on my role with her. I am not sure I would surrender again in a similar role, but I also found her to be exceptional. I think confusion is part of the growing process.

Andalusite -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/14/2010 3:43:39 PM)
doombunny, welcome to the forums! If you have repeatedly had these communication difficulties, I do think that you might want to consider the timing and phrasing with which you are expressing your needs and desires. There's nothing wrong with sharing them, and I think that the majority of Dominant people want and need that information from someone they are seriously exploring things with. However, bringing them up before connecting with them as an individual person tends to make people feel objectified, and comes across as very pushy. Kevin, nobody mentioned anything about tribute or money until you brought it up. I don't see how it's at all relevant!

doombunny -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/14/2010 5:08:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika quote: ORIGINAL: doombunny as a submissive male i actually find it to be difficult to find a Dominant knowing what i want out of a relationship. now mind you, i'm not pushy or dom-ming from the top, i just want someone who is going to respect me, help me to grow, and whom ultimately i can build a lasting relationship with through my giving myself to them. i think that many of the dominants i have encountered are maybe a little put off by my frankness and my less than obsequious mediative style when trying to communicate the out wants, kinks, and various other potential dimensions before getting into an actual relationship. i guess what i'm trying to say is that a failure in communication comes from both ends, and while the hallmark of a D/s relationship is the asymmetric balance of power, that i've found that many dominants are quite often not responsive and can frankly come off as churlish when a submissive actually knows what he wants out of a committed relationship I like men who know what they want. I also like men who can tell me in a way that doesn't come across like a little dog humping my leg. But most importantly, what most men lack, is knowing how to honestly court and seduce a Domme. They don't understand that once you figure out what makes a Domme tick, communication gets relatively easy. - LA thank you for your direction Lady Angelika, admittedly i've found that courting, let alone seducing a Domme to be a real challenge. i'm going to make a generalization, and so please forgive me if i come off as arrogant, and especially sexist, but i think that its not unfair to say that most heterosexual women, and bisexual women for that matter, tend to respond positively to a male when he demonstrates what gets called 'confidence.' furthermore, i believe that the gestures, attitudes, and behaviors that are ostensibly termed as 'confidence,' or 'being confident' have a biological correlation to- frankly, an animalistic exhibition of dominance. courtship of a Domme is then a very unusual dance. its a weird mix of kink, personality, respect, courtesy, animal instincts, and being on the whole emotionally grounded as a person. that said, i think that getting to understand a Domme 'to tick,' as you put it [;)], is a really good paradigm to operate under. quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit Doombunny, I haven't met you before, so I want to first say, welcome to the boards and it's great to have you here! I am like LA, I want a man who expresses himself and talks to me. However I don't want someone in a first email telling me what he wants kink wise! lol I want to know him as a person and I want him to see and know me as well. Despite what many think, it isn't all about kink in my world. I have to be able to relate to him and get along outside of the kink and I don't just want kink, but a relationship. I love a man who speaks his mind. Of course I do want it to be done respectfully as I will give that same respect to him and his wants and needs. I will only become disrespectful when someone is consistently disrespecting me in a personal relationship. But by that stage, it is over. lol There is no place for disrespect in a relationship, in my opinion. thank you Lockit both for your warm response and welcome. i'm happy to be here and working to build a sense of community. respect is so important to me and i couldn't agree with you more, lists are made for laundry and not for writing a Domme you want to get a response from.

slavekal -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/14/2010 5:18:10 PM)
Too many guys don't have the guts and/or honesty to seek out what they really need. They often spend years in unsatisfying relationships and wasting the time of dominant ladies who are looking for real slaves. Of course no man feels submissive every second of every day, but we have to keep our eye on the prize. Going to work or the gym isn't fun every second, either. But the rewards are worth it.

HeathenMa1am -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/14/2010 7:02:36 PM)
I disagree that "confidence" is a dominant signal. In my experience, it's extroversion that's a dominant signal. Introversion or shyness is usually perceived as personality-submissive (as distinct from sexually-submissive; everybody is dominant or submissive personality-wise, but only some people ENJOY power exchange). For example, I was out with some work colleagues at a night club last night. One guy who is really really handsome and attractive in a vanilla way, was also out shaking hands with people and trying to drum up business, an extroverted characteristic. I was doing the same thing. Another guy, who is kind of geeky and a bit overweight and not really the kind of guy one would put on a calendar, was hanging back and waiting to be introduced. He was basically acting like a wallflower. I noticed him swaying to the music a little, and I had to restrain myself from grabbing him and making him dance with me. I had to remind myself I wasn't at a lifestyle event! I found his introverted style irrestible. I wanted to protect him and help him open up and enjoy himself. I wanted to dominate him. This guy does not lack confidence! He's great at what he does and he knows it. He just doesn't act like a leader. And I like that, since I'm dominant and I want to be the leader.

LadyAngelika -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/14/2010 7:17:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: doombunny thank you for your direction Lady Angelika, admittedly i've found that courting, let alone seducing a Domme to be a real challenge. As it should be ;-) It's not a task for a weak man! quote: i'm going to make a generalization, and so please forgive me if i come off as arrogant, and especially sexist, but i think that its not unfair to say that most heterosexual women, and bisexual women for that matter, tend to respond positively to a male when he demonstrates what gets called 'confidence.' furthermore, i believe that the gestures, attitudes, and behaviors that are ostensibly termed as 'confidence,' or 'being confident' have a biological correlation to- frankly, an animalistic exhibition of dominance. Absolutely. Just because I'm a dominant doesn't exclude that I am a woman. Overtime, I've come to reflect on the qualities that I find most desirable in a submissive man. You can read about my thoughts on what makes a strong submissive man here. quote: courtship of a Domme is then a very unusual dance. its a weird mix of kink, personality, respect, courtesy, animal instincts, and being on the whole emotionally grounded as a person. that said, i think that getting to understand a Domme 'to tick,' as you put it [;)], is a really good paradigm to operate under. And yet, if a man is truly submissive and enamoured with a woman that he desires to submit too, and that she demonstrates interest in him, it will be the easy thing he ever has to do. - LA

lobodomslavery -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/15/2010 2:12:56 AM)
It s not relevant Andalusite, im sorry Kevin

LadyAngelika -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/15/2010 4:31:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LunarBull I read about this topic on the home page and wanted to share my opinion. From my perspective, it is natural for a male to be confused. In America, societal upbringing has conditioned men to take a leadership role in all aspects of life. Eventually, self-assured and confident men will find their way. I spent the past year in a relationship as a submissive. This was both in the bedroom and out. I surrendered entirely to her. This means 100% to her wants and needs. My joy came from pleasing her. I actually found greater satisfaction taking care of her needs outside the bedroom. I was very clear on my role with her. I am not sure I would surrender again in a similar role, but I also found her to be exceptional. I think confusion is part of the growing process. Firstly, welcome to the boards LunarBull. You are absolutely right that confusion is part of the growing process. In addition, I think that it is normal that you do not envisage submitting to just any woman again. In fact, I think it is quite healthy. You need to ensure that if you do find yourself in a position to submit to someone again, that it is a woman you admire and hold in high esteem. Otherwise how can you truly submit from the heart? - LA

Kaiel -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/15/2010 4:56:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TenderBlade Have you come across sub men who are confused about what they really want?They don't know whether they are just sexually submissive or whether they are a lifestyle submissive. Is it a big turn off for you? Yes!

doombunny -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/15/2010 9:38:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Andalusite doombunny, welcome to the forums! If you have repeatedly had these communication difficulties, I do think that you might want to consider the timing and phrasing with which you are expressing your needs and desires. There's nothing wrong with sharing them, and I think that the majority of Dominant people want and need that information from someone they are seriously exploring things with. However, bringing them up before connecting with them as an individual person tends to make people feel objectified, and comes across as very pushy. thank you Andalusite, as i mentioned before its a real pleasure to be here and to be getting such great feedback

AlexandraLynch -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/16/2010 1:08:55 AM)
I don't mind a man who isn't sure what he wants yet, but I do mind when he isn't willing to think about what he wants, and the implications of what he wants. I have other things to do than wait around while he tries to decide, and then comes up with a must-have fetish that is on my must-not-have list.

Lucienne -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/16/2010 8:06:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeathenMa1am In my experience, it's extroversion that's a dominant signal. Introversion or shyness is usually perceived as personality-submissive I don't think there's a great deal of overlap between introversion and shyness. I think shy people tend to be insecure extroverts.

LadyOddsworth -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/16/2010 5:58:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blmtrsne The image men have of being dominated is almost everytimes a reflection of their dreams. When you start to dominate, they are freightened. Then they run or stay. That's the way I see it, but it's a gut feeling, not a sceintific fact. I've had more than one drop out of sight the moment having "coffee" is mentioned. It becomes too real for them. Better to find out sooner than later.

Domin8tingUrDrmz -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/16/2010 6:00:22 PM)
So have I LadyOddsworth. It's rather amusing how evil coffee is to some 'submissive' men...lol.

Andalusite -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/16/2010 7:38:51 PM)
Heathen Ma1am, when I go dancing, I tend to ask the "wallflower" guys on the sidelines. Most of them are brand new, and are worried they'll mess up. It's so rewarding when about halfway to 3/4 of the way through the song, they relax, start moving more fluidly, and smile! I used to be extremely shy, especially about public speaking. For a while, I had to push myself to do it, and now, it is a lot easier. I'm still a little nervous in a large venue if I don't know anyone, but I can almost always find at least one person to have an interesting conversation with, then the rest of the event is easy. I need both people time and alone time, so I'd say I'm right on the border between introversion and extroversion.

RavenMuse -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/17/2010 5:16:57 AM)
I've been doing this for about thirty years now...... Thank fuck I'm a straight male, I feel sorry for My Female Peers because I can count the number of male submissives I've EVER met who actually knew what it meant to SUBMIT on the fingers of one hand. The vast majority are simply do-me-bunnies who will happily drama queen their way into getting what they want from whichever deluded Lady mistakenly gave them attention. The tiny few, when asked what they want... their first response isn't a list of kink play they want doing to them, but rather what sort of skills they have that they could use for the Lady they submit too... those are a refreshing change and the fact that I've met a few is the only reason that I haven't entirely written off sub males as ENTIRELY unworthy of My respect. Some of that has to fall on those that claim to be Female Dominants though.... they let them away with it (The ones I have respect for as Peers DON'T, it is just a general observation including many of those I see but don't bother getting to know because I see nothing WORTH getting to know)

CarrieO -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/17/2010 6:31:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TenderBlade Have you come across sub men who are confused about what they really want?They don't know whether they are just sexually submissive or whether they are a lifestyle submissive. Is it a big turn off for you? I've met men in general...dominant, submissive, switch and every shade inbetween...who don't know what they want. I think there's lots of people, especially here on CM and other online sites, that are trying to understand the feelings they have. I will be the first to admit I was unsure myself until I explored and accepted my switchiness. I'm not turned off by a man who's trying to understand the feelings and desires he has as long as he admits it and is willing to branch out beyond the bedroom play. I am turned off by men who use the label "submissive" as a way to sidestep their responsibility within the relationship. You know, the ones who want to lay back and enjoy the sensations but ignore the work it takes to build the trust that leads to those sensations. Also..."lifestyle" doesn't matter to me as much as a man fitting into MY lifestyle. Sex is part of my lifestyle so both things matter to me.

doombunny -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/17/2010 11:36:07 PM)
quote: I've been doing this for about thirty years now...... Thank fuck I'm a straight male, I feel sorry for My Female Peers because I can count the number of male submissives I've EVER met who actually knew what it meant to SUBMIT on the fingers of one hand. The vast majority are simply do-me-bunnies who will happily drama queen their way into getting what they want from whichever deluded Lady mistakenly gave them attention. The tiny few, when asked what they want... their first response isn't a list of kink play they want doing to them, but rather what sort of skills they have that they could use for the Lady they submit too... those are a refreshing change and the fact that I've met a few is the only reason that I haven't entirely written off sub males as ENTIRELY unworthy of My respect. Some of that has to fall on those that claim to be Female Dominants though.... they let them away with it (The ones I have respect for as Peers DON'T, it is just a general observation including many of those I see but don't bother getting to know because I see nothing WORTH getting to know) Ravenmuse, i have to disagree with you, while i do agree with you that providing a list of skills, and perhaps more as well as things which would offer enjoyment to the Domme is far more important than the laundry list of things that would get me off, i do believe that 'submission' with respect to a Domme/male submissive relationship means different things to different people, and yet while its mostly a created dynamic between two consenting individuals, that there is a general typology. i read recently that the distinguishing feature between gay and straight male bdsm is that gay bdsm seems to focus around activities which may be broadly labeled as 'hypermasculinity,' whereas heterosexual male bdsm may be said to focus around activities of humiliation. that said, i think it would be great if they had a kinky eHarmony Dyadic Adjustment Scale type test because perhaps then male submission, and humiliation in particular (following the logic of the aforementioned study with regard to Domme/male submissive relationships), would be evaluated through the various domains by which a either partner but particularly the male submissive, defines himself. Midori's Wild Side Sex, features an essay, The Heart of Erotic Humiliation. which discusses erotic humiliation as a form of humiliation which while humbling a person's 'secondary pillars actually strengthens a person's 'primary pillars' of identity. so while a male submissive might think of himself as primarily, say, attractive or ambitious, perhaps he may think of himself secondarily as say authoritative and let's say 'immersed in masculine gender coding.' by destabilizing these latter two, and perhaps while giving him menial tasks that not only 'please his Mistress,' but also keep her floor vacuumed, his primary pillars of identity are actually being strengthened. perhaps submission, within a Domme/slave dynamic needs to be understood one that preserves one form of identity while surrendering another. i guess what i'm saying is this, that yes its true there are a lot of very horny guys looking to release a little man-tension, but that many of us whom remain sincere in our pursuit, are maybe more than a little wary about any relationship where submission, while the defining quality of such a relationship, is worded with such rigid and expiatory language. in my personal experiences it never ceases to surprise me just how much i'm willing to give of myself to another person when i feel safe and respected enough to do so.

Andalusite -> RE: Confused Sub men? (3/17/2010 11:40:53 PM)
doombunny, I agree that a lot of submissive men are interested in humilation, but it's by no means universal. Personally, I'm not particularly drawn to humilation, and am outright opposed to some forms of it.

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