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What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Judgment


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What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Judgment - 3/14/2010 9:24:39 AM   
Brain


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Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Eric Holder is the only person in DOJ who could overrule this cover up.
On the other hand, Margolis would never be allowed to make this decision on his own, which means it came from Holder, which means it came from Obama - shame on all three of them.
 
What Torture Is and Why It's Illegal and Not "Poor Judgment"

Margolis decided that an internal report into the conduct of John Yoo and Jay S. Bybee, who wrote the notorious memos in August 2002, which attempted to redefine torture so that it could be used by the CIA, was mistaken in concluding that both men were guilty of "professional misconduct," and should be referred to their bar associations for disciplinary action.

Instead, Margolis concluded, in a memo that shredded four years of investigative work by the Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR), the DOJ's ethics watchdog, that Yoo and Bybee had merely exercised "poor judgment." As lawyers in the Office of Legal Counsel (OLC), which is charged with providing objective legal advice to the executive branch on all constitutional questions, Yoo and Bybee attempted to redefine torture as the infliction of physical pain "equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death," or the infliction of mental pain which "result in significant psychological harm of significant duration e.g. lasting for months or even years."
 
http://www.truthout.org/what-torture-is-and-why-its-illegal-and-not-poor-judgment57622
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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/14/2010 9:30:55 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		Maybe this means that the CIA can once again waterboard a terrorist to gain valuable intel.

(in reply to Brain)
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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/14/2010 9:50:45 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Personally, I cant believe we should be having such a conversation conducted at such senior level, or even at all.

What this is about is criminal activity - assault of one sort or another, premeditated assault with the full intent to cause injury to specified persons.

We then have this criminal activity not merely being endorsed but recommended by government.

And we have proof that this criminal activity was so endorsed, recommended and carried out.

But instead of arrests, trials, convictions and sentencing, we have senior judiciary dealing with it as if it were a minor misdemeanour rather than a coordinated, conspiratorial, serious crime - made all the more serious by virtue of it being directed and executed by and with the authority of the government.

And worse, treated in this way because the offenders in question attempted to redefine the law according to their own criminal intent and purpose, and however unconvincing their attempts in this regard they are nevertheless being regarded as valid.

And this adds to or detracts from the opinion of so many that government is corrupt, whimsically oppressive and unrepresentative? This adds to or detracts from the skepticism, cynicism, distrust and even hostility to the democratic republic the US is founded on?

E

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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/14/2010 11:37:41 AM   
thornhappy


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Status: offline 		If waterboarding was so effective, do you think they would have done it over 100 times to the same individual?  It's like witch-finding.  If someone doesn't fess up, why they must be a witch.  If they do make a false confession, why then they are a witch.  We knew that this technique generated false confessions during the Korean war, why would it miraculously start working now?

Even the SERE guys said it's ineffective, and warned the DoD not to do that.

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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/14/2010 6:35:22 PM   
HeathenMa1am


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Status: offline 		Of course it's illegal. In the Bush years our country was sliding fast on the slippery slope to tyranny. Thank goodness that's over. I am disappointed, though, that the war criminals responsible are not being prosecuted. And I'm also disappointed that the last election's loser did not continue his one-man campaign against torture but instead turned into an old blowhard and sore loser whom no one can take seriously anymore. Where is the leadership on this issue? This is not the kind of thing that should be allowed to be swept under the rug.


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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/14/2010 7:08:36 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Maybe this means that the CIA can once again waterboard a terrorist to gain valuable intel.
Once again?.....pray tell servant....please regale us with a few recitations of prior successes?

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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/14/2010 7:11:17 PM   
InvisibleBlack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeathenMa1am
Of course it's illegal. In the Bush years our country was sliding fast on the slippery slope to tyranny. Thank goodness that's over...


Over? You're kidding, right?

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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/14/2010 7:17:29 PM   
DarlingSavage


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Status: offline 		"nudity, hooding, shackling in painful positions"

What? You mean to tell me these guys aren't having the times of their lives right now? What is wrong with these people?

No, I agree, these are heinous crimes which need to be dealt with accordingly. I continue to be appalled by the lack of judicial action on this issue.

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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/14/2010 7:33:36 PM   
popeye1250


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Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		"Torture?"
That's Janet Reno in a neglaget comming at you with a box of rubbers!
(Larry the Cable Guy)

This site is chock full of sadists and your trying to say that torture is illegal? LOLOL!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 3/14/2010 7:35:10 PM >

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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/15/2010 12:54:50 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		You people wouldn't even agree with me that senators and congressmen should get the same retirement and medical we get, so there is no point in me even saying that those who authorized torture should be now tortured themselves. I guess eye for an eye really is out the window now.

T

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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/15/2010 8:47:24 AM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		For every misdemeanour that is allowed to happen in  US, a land that built itself on freedom, the more it gives the dangerous uncompromising enemies the reason to do what they wish to any that are caught from the US or sympathising countries, we are sowing what we will come to reap and those that engage in these heinous acts will never be the ones caught, it will be those minding their own business, the common or garden tourist, or other, possibly non combatant other.

By doing these things to foreign nationals, they are advocating the same be done to US citizens, and British citizens for our intelligence agency's involvement in this. Who again is the enemy ?

< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/15/2010 8:58:08 AM >

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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/15/2010 2:17:41 PM   
Real0ne


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sorta makes ya wish ya still had that dusty ole constitution dun it?


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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/15/2010 4:51:04 PM   
NihilusZero


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Status: offline 		You discover who the scary people are when the argument ceases to be a discussion about the ethical/hypocritical flaws of torture and, instead, it becomes a mere question of whether the process can yield anything we could conceivably label as "valuable".

Fucking frightening shit.

Seriously.


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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/15/2010 4:53:48 PM   
heartcream


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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

You discover who the scary people are when the argument ceases to be a discussion about the ethical/hypocritical flaws of torture and, instead, it becomes a mere question of whether the process can yield anything we could conceivably label as "valuable".

Fucking frightening shit.

Seriously.



Exactly.

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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/15/2010 5:53:47 PM   
DarlingSavage


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Joined: 9/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream


quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

You discover who the scary people are when the argument ceases to be a discussion about the ethical/hypocritical flaws of torture and, instead, it becomes a mere question of whether the process can yield anything we could conceivably label as "valuable".

Fucking frightening shit.

Seriously.



Exactly.


I agree, too.

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RE: What Torture Is and Why Its Illegal and Not Poor Ju... - 3/16/2010 9:19:12 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Maybe this means that the CIA can once again waterboard a terrorist to gain valuable intel.


Yes, and it means Sean Hannity can once again feel free to have himself waterboarded to prove that it's not really torture.

Whatever happened there?

Maybe you should volunteer to step in for him. 

(in reply to servantforuse)
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