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RE: for punishment - 3/16/2010 8:36:20 AM   
atractivenuisane


Posts: 30
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		That would be a relief. I'd be a bit embarrassed to be unshaven, but if the order came from above, I'd think of it as a vacation.

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: for punishment - 3/16/2010 6:05:59 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		So what exactly does this do to correct the problem? It doesn't solve it for the future, it doesn't even inquire into the circumstances. It's just stupid and useless. If he's too dumb to find out why and figure out a solution to prevent the problem from reoccuring, then he deserves sleeping with a yeti.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: for punishment - 3/16/2010 11:43:15 PM   
fadedshadow


Posts: 751
Joined: 4/27/2009
From: a place
Status: offline 		it wouldn't be a significant change for me lol

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your living nightmare

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: for punishment - 3/17/2010 12:05:12 AM   
itsmeinLV


Posts: 207
Joined: 12/23/2009
Status: offline 		Punishment for the sub or the Dom?  Cuz I think that's more a punishment for the Dom, lol!

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: for punishment - 3/17/2010 12:10:29 AM   
fadedshadow


Posts: 751
Joined: 4/27/2009
From: a place
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: itsmeinLV

Punishment for the sub or the Dom?  Cuz I think that's more a punishment for the Dom, lol!


ditto, me not shaving for 90 days is more of a reward than anything. i like having a beard lol

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your living nightmare

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 2:43:39 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Yet another osf question that has only one answer.... it would depend on ....

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Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 4:33:12 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Yet another osf question that has only one answer.... it would depend on ....


I can think of at least two more...

"Define 'punishment'"

and

"'punishment' for what?"


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 4:47:12 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		RM, 'punishment for what' would require communication with the slave. And osf has clearly stated he is uninterested in that.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 4:52:20 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		Strange Des, apart from his OP I haven't seen him say anything in this thread?

But to take up your point... if "Punishment for what" is irrelevant then it isn't punishment at all, just an excuse.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 6:00:43 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

Strange Des, apart from his OP I haven't seen him say anything in this thread?

But to take up your point... if "Punishment for what" is irrelevant then it isn't punishment at all, just an excuse.



It was a question for the submissives to answer, not being submissive i don't have any feelings from that side so no answer

and as for what, well i don't have time to list all the possibilities

where have i said i'm not interested in communication? i've said may times i want control and can anybody tell me how that is accomplished without understanding?

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 6:12:39 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline 		Why would I want to punish myself?
Sheesh. I give consequences that restrict her, not me.



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HST

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 6:15:11 AM   
antinomy


Posts: 124
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		OSF, this is really no different than the thread you posted a while back in 'Ask a Master', about having a sub/slave undress in a restaurant. The "what if" factor being irrelevant to you. What you basically asked the doms is, "do you expect your sub/slave to obey?" The details just mucked things up. I see the same thing here. Who cares if they shave or not for 90 days? The real question you are asking is " would you obey?" And, I have to wonder why you would care? I mean, obviously, if you had control over a woman in the sense you wanted- you would want HER answer to be yes. But, not sure what purpose a question like this really serves otherwise? Even if 99.9% of the respondents said "no", it would have absolutely no bearing on you, what you are seeking, or what you want your relationship to look like.

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 6:20:08 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		not shaving for 90 days? as long as I got some pretty beads to braid unshaved hair, ...nah not a punishment
clink clink clink


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(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to antinomy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 6:27:57 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf
It was a question for the submissives to answer, not being submissive i don't have any feelings from that side so no answer

and as for what, well i don't have time to list all the possibilities


All putting a question on the submissives forum does is highlight that the questioner is mostly interested in answers from that perspective. It doesn't prohibit others answering, it is an open forum.

No feelings from that side? nothing at all? No experience of dealing with submissives about such issues to draw on?

The benefit of these being open forums is that oft the other side can point out an element that opens the discussion up and gets a more rounded response from the target group as well as the 'other' contributors. I for one welcome the submissive contributions on the Masters forum for that very reason.

If you can't pin down the 'for what' then it looks (Not saying it is, just what that singular statement would seem to imply) like arbitrary bullshit rather than anything logical and stemming from a working Dynamic.

Personally I don't pun a punishment dynamic. If she fucks up I will impose discipline, that is quite different than arbitrarily beating her ass. I look at the why of what happened and find out what needs to be done or put in place to help avoid it happening again. Punishment, on the rare occasion (Twice in over 2 and a half years... so far)  it is used in this household is used to draw a line under something and prevent her from continuing to beat herself up over it, not to correct behaviour... communication is the primary means used for that.

quote:

where have i said i'm not interested in communication? i've said may times i want control and can anybody tell me how that is accomplished without understanding?


That you can take up with des... As I said, I hadn't seen you say anything of the sort in this thread!


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 6:32:10 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: antinomy

OSF, this is really no different than the thread you posted a while back in 'Ask a Master', about having a sub/slave undress in a restaurant. The "what if" factor being irrelevant to you. What you basically asked the doms is, "do you expect your sub/slave to obey?" The details just mucked things up. I see the same thing here. Who cares if they shave or not for 90 days? The real question you are asking is " would you obey?" And, I have to wonder why you would care? I mean, obviously, if you had control over a woman in the sense you wanted- you would want HER answer to be yes. But, not sure what purpose a question like this really serves otherwise? Even if 99.9% of the respondents said "no", it would have absolutely no bearing on you, what you are seeking, or what you want your relationship to look like.


I see a difference one was to masters, or whatever and this is asking the sub/whatevers how they feel

The question was based on a real conversation I had with a sub and wondered how others felt about it.

Do all questions stemming from curiosity have to have a direct bearing on the questioner?


I probably wouldn’t have the question about a woman I controlled as I would hope I’d know her well enough to know the answer.


A mistake a lot of people seem to make here is that they can glean insight into me from the questions I ask here, when most are just what if type questions and nothing more.

If you want to know me, get to know me, take the time.


_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 6:35:38 AM   
antinomy


Posts: 124
Joined: 3/7/2008
Status: offline 		I wanted to add something here. As OSF has stated, it's all about control for him. That said, I'm not sure that punishment means the same thing to me as it does to him.

For punishment to be effective to ME, it generally has to fit the crime. About the only things I can see this one fitting are using His razor, when told not to....or not cleaning out the tub after I shaved. Yeah, I could see this as a legitimate punishment then. I would be uncomfortable for 90 days, and it would likely be EFFECTIVE in having me not commit said offenses in the future.

I suppose, what I'm getting at is this: I don't understand the question as posed. Would I obey is really between my and my dominant. It's irrelevant anywhere else. And, when considering punishment, the question to me is really what's effective? If I forgot to feed the gosling (was going to say cat here, and decided to make it post specific...lol), and was told I could not shave for 90 days, there's no cause and effect going on. If, instead, I didn't get to have supper for a couple of days, I might better understand what I'd done wrong....

(in reply to antinomy)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 6:40:26 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf
It was a question for the submissives to answer, not being submissive i don't have any feelings from that side so no answer

and as for what, well i don't have time to list all the possibilities


All putting a question on the submissives forum does is highlight that the questioner is mostly interested in answers from that perspective. It doesn't prohibit others answering, it is an open forum.

No feelings from that side? nothing at all? No experience of dealing with submissives about such issues to draw on?

The benefit of these being open forums is that oft the other side can point out an element that opens the discussion up and gets a more rounded response from the target group as well as the 'other' contributors. I for one welcome the submissive contributions on the Masters forum for that very reason.

If you can't pin down the 'for what' then it looks (Not saying it is, just what that singular statement would seem to imply) like arbitrary bullshit rather than anything logical and stemming from a working Dynamic.

Personally I don't pun a punishment dynamic. If she fucks up I will impose discipline, that is quite different than arbitrarily beating her ass. I look at the why of what happened and find out what needs to be done or put in place to help avoid it happening again. Punishment, on the rare occasion (Twice in over 2 and a half years... so far)  it is used in this household is used to draw a line under something and prevent her from continuing to beat herself up over it, not to correct behaviour... communication is the primary means used for that.

quote:

where have i said i'm not interested in communication? i've said may times i want control and can anybody tell me how that is accomplished without understanding?


That you can take up with des... As I said, I hadn't seen you say anything of the sort in this thread!




I haven't said anything because i wanted to see where it went and really had nothing to add

and a simple what if question is being over complicated

It was a how would you feel about X question, not X+Y or X-Y or 1/3X +/- 1/2Y

< Message edited by osf -- 3/18/2010 6:42:02 AM >

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 6:47:15 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: antinomy

I wanted to add something here. As OSF has stated, it's all about control for him. That said, I'm not sure that punishment means the same thing to me as it does to him.

For punishment to be effective to ME, it generally has to fit the crime. About the only things I can see this one fitting are using His razor, when told not to....or not cleaning out the tub after I shaved. Yeah, I could see this as a legitimate punishment then. I would be uncomfortable for 90 days, and it would likely be EFFECTIVE in having me not commit said offenses in the future.

I suppose, what I'm getting at is this: I don't understand the question as posed. Would I obey is really between my and my dominant. It's irrelevant anywhere else. And, when considering punishment, the question to me is really what's effective? If I forgot to feed the gosling (was going to say cat here, and decided to make it post specific...lol), and was told I could not shave for 90 days, there's no cause and effect going on. If, instead, I didn't get to have supper for a couple of days, I might better understand what I'd done wrong....



I see Three things as distinctively different discipline, correction and punishment

Discipline as the structure of a relationship and it’s maintenance

correction , as don’t do it that way, do it this way, problem solved

punishment for willful and or repeated acts

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 6:47:53 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		X without context rather strips it of relevance

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: for punishment - 3/18/2010 6:50:15 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

X without context rather strips it of relevance


the one answering is free to add their own context, think of this as a discussion where the question was meant to be made personal to the one answering the question

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 40
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