Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (Full Version)

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AlderTheKitty -> Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (3/31/2006 6:13:57 PM)

i do not take kindly to women saying "i am a goddess and you will worship me" or "your a pathetic little male worm i am a goddess and you may not argue with me" as well as "you are a male your only purpose is to serve me cause i am a goddess"

well i don't mean to rain on your paraid but you are not a goddess to this sub this sub only worships real goddess (I.E. the phantom queen morigan, aphrodite, tara and hera to name just 4 of them) and i am insulted at how many of you think that it's ok to call you self a "Divine Being" i got news for you treating men like shit and thinking tha all subs want to be treated worse then insects is insulting

now another problem i have seen with goddess types is feminist militant extreamism that is thinking that to support feminimity that you have to oppress men from every actual femist site i have looked at and i have looked at a few the goal was of liberation and equalty nothing about opressing men and making them slaves and saying that women should be in control because they are more compsionate

clears throught if women are more compassioate then why do these so called feminists seam to be just as opressive as say hitler stallin saddam and lastly goerge bush.

lastly the principal that i subscibe to is that no one in the lifestyle is more important then another and that every one is equal and subs are equal in importance to there doms because with out a sub your just abusive



Lashra -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (3/31/2006 6:47:49 PM)

First of all you might want to use a spell checker. Secondly there are as many oppressive Dom's as there are Domme's, you just have to weed thru them if thats not your cup of tea. Some subs love that *oppressive* attitude and they love being treated like *worms* and viewing their Domme as a goddess. Not ALL Domme's are like that, I myself am not like that. I don't want a groveling sniveling male who's afraid to say anything. The sub I have now speaks his mind and has his own opinions and I want him to be like that. If I wanted a Robosub I'd buy one.
I too am a Pagan and my sub calls me his Goddess on his OWN. So what you need to realise is that yes there are oppressive Dominant people out there of both genders and if you don't like that sort of a person then tell them to fuck off and steer clear of them.
I myself get rather pissed off when I go to certain sites or in certain rooms and hear men spouting off about * male superiority* or *the natural order of men having dominion over women*. Sorry folks its bullshit we are all equal, we all have dom/sub traits and the ones who say that they dont' are in clear denial. Having a cock-n-balls or a tits and a pussy doesn't make one superior, it is whats between the ears. I'm a Domme and I dont believe in the female supreme jazz and I don't want to hear about it either.
Subs are equal people but they do have different needs then a Dominant. Any Dom/me who looks down at their sub as a *inferior* person or doesn't respect them isn't worth beans and no sub should waste their time with them.

~Lashra



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (3/31/2006 8:38:44 PM)

Alder,

What you're speaking out against is most commonly seen in Female Supremacist beliefs. While I feel that those who wish to believe these things have a right to do so, I have to agree with you that I see it as a warping of Goddess religions. I believe that we all have the Divine in us, making us ALL Divine, not just a few. I also believe that if a man or woman wants to worship the Goddess (any Goddess), they should look within, to awaken those feminine qualities that they desire, and without, to exhibit those qualities they admire. In such a way, the Divine (be that Goddess or whomever) is honored.

I feel that to base a belief system on revenge, as is the argument for a lot of Female Supremacists, isn't doing any of us any good: they become what they preach against. I also feel that to elevate one person above another based on sex, religion, etc. is not a positive belief system.   But these are only my opinions. However, I do agree that you need a spell checker.[;)]
  Fire



lushusboobs -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (3/31/2006 9:14:12 PM)

I'm a pagan and a Domme and some refer to me as Goddess because of my size.  However I'm not a female supremacist.  The female supremacist position is a kind of reverse sexism.  Although I can enjoy worship and adoration, I stop short of espousing those kinds of reverse sexist values.  I prefer a more equal relationship during non scene times.

I think that at the core of my belief in paganism is a belief that I can find the divine within me and invoke the divine within myself.  Now that does not mean that I equate myself with a Goddess or that I have such a big ego as to think that I have Goddess like powers.  What I do find is that it gives me some self confidence that was not instilled in me from my primarily negative towards women family that I grew up in.  I need that kind of confidence because of the shame that was instilled in me with regard to being a woman.

The traditional religion I grew up in saw power as being extrinsic rather than intrinsic which gives no power whatsoever to the individual.  However paganism allows the individual to take their own power from the divine.  How do you see your own power?  Do you feel empowered even as a submissive to set your own limits? 



Moloch -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (3/31/2006 9:34:09 PM)

lushusboobs :1    AlderTheKitty: 0
Alder how many people do you think know specifics of pagan relegion?  They are not naming themselves a "godess" to offend your relegion, they are doing it because it feels right for them. What If I am an iconoclast orthodox christian? should I stop talking to catholics and protestants because "those Ignorant Idiots wear crosses and have paintings in their churches" which deepley offends my relegion? Maybe I should drop by Vatican and tell pope to burn all relegious drawings and Icons it offends my brand of christianity. 



perverseangelic -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (3/31/2006 10:07:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch
Alder how many people do you think know specifics of pagan relegion?


Off topic, but "pagan" isn't a religion. While there are pagan faiths, there are no tentes of "paganism" etc.

's all.



lushusboobs -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (3/31/2006 10:11:06 PM)

Paganism is an umbrella term.  Specifically I'm wiccan.  It's easier to use a general term than to try to define my spirituality which is pretty eclectic.  I usually define myself as Unitarian Universalist which encompasses a whole conglomeration since UUs believe it is okay to follow whatever path (or non spiritual path) that is good for you.



Moloch -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (3/31/2006 10:28:27 PM)

Yes Im aware thanks, Im just lumping it into one category for the sake of simplcity.

  



mantis65 -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (3/31/2006 10:59:52 PM)

quote:

(I.E. the phantom queen morigan, aphrodite, tara and hera to name just 4 of them) and i am insulted at how many of you think that it's ok to call you self a "Divine Being" i got news for you treating men like shit and thinking tha all subs want to be treated worse then insects is insulting 


What’s wrong with insects?



LadyThornrose -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (4/1/2006 12:49:29 AM)

I consider myself a witch (spiritual belief) but not a Wiccan (religious tradition).  I have GREAT respect for the spiritual beliefs and religious traditions of other people. 

Here is the definition of Goddess according to the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:
1 : a female god
2 : a woman whose great charm or beauty arouses adoration

As a Domme, I am sometimes referred to as a Goddess.  I see it as a sign of respect.  In many religious traditions there are various archetypes of the Goddess.  Women are often used as a mortal representation for the worship of deity.  Since spirituality is a significant part of my personal views on BDSM,  I am very comfortable with being called a Goddess. 

As a side-note, I don't consider myself a Goddess-worshipper.  I prefer referring to deity as God - equal parts male/female, just as I view a Dominant Woman and a male submissive as two sides to the same coin.  



Jasmyn -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (4/1/2006 1:26:57 AM)

Ayecrumba who peed you're panties?



AlderTheKitty -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (4/1/2006 8:38:29 AM)

Sorry, about the spelling I was pissed of cause lately I have noticed allot of Domme’s seam to be out to get back at any man they can get there hands on. Furthermore, often times it is a new inexperienced sub that she finds take, take advantage of him, and make him think that he has to like to be treated like shit to be a submissive and being a victim of such a person my self, I do not want to see it happen to another person.

yes they’re is that use of goddess but many of the ones I have seen think they have an entailment to it cause they are "Fem Supreme" and say I should automatically worship them cause they put goddess in they're name. Lastly, this was meant to publicly voice my disgust at women using the term goddess as an excuse to be abusive. When in fact many goddesses who where worshiped widely were know for great deeds. As in helping, an army stop an invasion or watching over a mother as she gives birth rarely for oppressing a social group for frivolous reasons.



fergus -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (4/1/2006 5:53:23 PM)

Alder,

I have been pagan for over 15 years.  The people that use "goddess" as an appelation to their name are not doing so in a spiritual context, and I would not let it worry you too much.  Just as much, there are many 18 y/o "High Priests and Priestesses" who got ordination through ULC without having any real training.

Many terms just don't mean something concrete ... they convey concepts.  Why do we pagans like to play the semantics game so mcuh?  I guess I'll never understand.  Perhaps ask why so many pagans use the terms "Lord this" or "Lady that" in their craft names without having either earned the title through training, or recognition of their spiritual community (or actually being royalty for that matter).

fergus



MarinaBlack -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (4/1/2006 11:15:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlderTheKitty

i do not take kindly to women saying "i am a goddess and you will worship me" or "your a pathetic little male worm i am a goddess and you may not argue with me" as well as "you are a male your only purpose is to serve me cause i am a goddess"

well i don't mean to rain on your paraid but you are not a goddess to this sub this sub only worships real goddess (I.E. the phantom queen morigan, aphrodite, tara and hera to name just 4 of them) and i am insulted at how many of you think that it's ok to call you self a "Divine Being" i got news for you treating men like shit and thinking tha all subs want to be treated worse then insects is insulting
...


If you've ever participated in ritual with a Priestess of Wicca you may have observed something often referred to as "Drawing Down the Moon" in which the Priestess BECOMES Divinty (or a Goddess within Dianic Traditions).
If a BDSM scene is not ritual, I don't know what it is.
The Domme is then the Priestess, so within an exceptional FemDomme scene the Domme in fact is a Goddess.

I do agree with what you've said about equality between subs and Dom/mes. The roles are opposite, but not one "above" the other - and it's not like I believe that EVERY Domme is capable of Drawing Down the Moon either.

Now get over yourself and move on.
This forum is for asking Dommes questions, not for venting your spleen.



MarinaBlack -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (4/1/2006 11:20:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlderTheKitty

...When in fact many goddesses who where worshiped widely were know for great deeds. As in helping, an army stop an invasion or watching over a mother as she gives birth rarely for oppressing a social group for frivolous reasons.



And many Goddesses did terrible things.
Think of all the War Goddesses to start, and the Goddess of Spite...



LostLenore -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (4/2/2006 12:53:53 AM)

I got as much right to call myself a goddess as my partner would to say he's a priest if we were doing a Catholic scene.  It's PLAY for the sake of all things holy!  Nobody gets certified as a Dominant or submissive, and nothing is sacred in the pursuit of sexual fulfillment.  (Well, some things are illegal or widely regarded as immoral, but most are up for grabs or negotiable.)

Why assume a Domme claiming divinity is not telling the truth?  My sister's name is Tara, one of the goddesses invoked, so perhaps I spring from a family of deities and don't even know it.  Plenty of men have played demi-god on purpose or at the insistence of their followers.  If people can believe in both Jesus Christ and David Koresh, it shouldn't be a stretch to worship a woman of this world.  So many religions are based on flimsy facts and fanatical devotion that pledging one's self to a living person of palpable power seems comparitively sane. 

By the way, my cat says she's offended that you call yourself AlderTheKitty because such titles are reserved for her kind according to the doctrines of feline faith.

(Now, who do I have to beat or have sex with to get rid of this damned vanilla ice cream cone?)



DiannaVesta -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (4/2/2006 7:04:32 AM)

Hmmmmm… wow, ok, well I was going to leave this alone but maybe I’ll grab another cappuccino and mull this over.   The topic of fem supremacy has out done itself in these forums. The threads ate lengthy and heated. In fact nothing stirs a heated debate more then that topic. Still it makes me wonder how many people actually read the threads or give it thought beyond the buzz words and accusations that any person is better then another. 

 AlderTheKitty I find your post to be a bit immature. Not because you can’t spell but the references you make about Goddesses. I’m not trying to insult you but feel confused why a pagan would make such statements. It makes me wonder if you’ve done your research or how long you’ve been involved in paganism.  

MasterfireMaam your statements shocked the hell out of me. I know that you don’t believe in fem supremacy but I always found your post to be open-minded.   I was involved in wicca, the Dianic sect for many years before discovering BDSM. Without sharing my life story I will say that it was my journey into sexual alternatives that opened my eyes to having relationships with men. Prior to that I would have never considered it. Being a spiritual woman of the Goddess opened many doors and freed my sexuality so that I could explore my options.   Fem supremacy has nothing to do with degrading men or warping spirituality. FS is simply placing the feminine as primary in order to seek balance in a patriarchal world that discriminates against women. The symbols and rituals we adopt are tools we are all entitled to.

The Goddess lives within us all. If the title Goddess empowers a woman to project her sexuality and frees her, then by all means, she should act upon it. As Lost Lenore posted it really is role-play and not intended to be taken literally. Besides, who is to truly say that Goddesses and Gods don’t live among us? Lol – Is the ancient history the only period entitled to such beings?  

Keep in mind that there are many layers here. For instance a woman may be a witch who prefers women but enjoys submissive male energy. This may manifest in all forms. It’s whatever the two decide on which makes up their relationship. I do not believe you understand the purpose of humiliation and how for some it can be very constructive and liberating. If you see a post or ad where a woman is stating that she wants a worthless worm then that is the dynamic she is seeking because it turns her on. A man who enjoys/needs this will fall over himself getting to her. Every body has their *thing*. This is no different.

Humiliation is a very complex thing to play with. People dabble in it all the time. From mild to extreme it serves a purpose for those who seek it. Since the beginning of time people have humbled themselves to Gods, Goddess’s and symbols in an attempt to invoke a state of being.  

I am Goddess Dianna Vesta. At the core I believe there is only one of us here and that we are all equally connected. I harbor no distain or anger towards anyone. I chose the path that works for me and others of like mind share that with me. In this here and now, on this planet, in this time, I chose to project the divine feminine and give that priority in order to achieve balance. These are difficult times for both men and women. If psychological, sexual and physical extremes helps heal and bring a greater sense of being in a human then what could be wrong with that?   I would be the last person to ever try and convert someone to Fem Supremacy. It is simply my style of living and what makes me happy. At the same time I respect and honor the views of others. There are many ways and paths to love & peace. Mine is just different.

The spiritual elements of FS are rituals and with that sex can become a complex matter or there are many women who simply enjoy the dynamic or dominance and submission without BDSM. We are ALL kind, compassionate, down to earth, loving and even in our bitchiest state constructive. I do not take action without considering all the repercussions and three fold law.   I can only ask you to really get to know these women before passing judgment. There are a lot of imposers just as there are with people claiming to be pagan. They light candles, chase demons, etc. without truly knowing or understanding the real meaning. Especially those who are first embarking on the path. They make mistakes, say stupid things and try and convert everyone they know thinking their way is the only way, right? Those who are experienced and have felt the light won’t criticize but smile knowing that they too much find their own way and pay their dues.  

It doesn’t matter how you get there as long as you do. Don’t let things threaten you. Embrace it all as part of life and someone else’s choice.   

Dianna  



fergus -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (4/2/2006 7:20:06 AM)

And as I consistently tell people in my spiritual circles.

Ask ten pagans the same question, and you will get 12 different answers.

I have always found Wicca to be about balance (male and female) ... and as we all have these aspects within us, men can also draw down the moon, just as either sex can draw down the sun.  It is about connecting with the divine elements within yourself that are either masculine, feminie, or both ... and how they relate to divinity(s).

On the topic of FS ... at risk to personaly injury ;) I will also say that I am egalitarian.  I do not believe that one can 'balance' the world ... imbalance only creates more imbalance.  I believe you balance yourself, and teach your children and students how to do the same.  When it comes to FS and male vs. female supremecy ... I am reminded of what the head of a local Buddhist monastay once taught me: "How can a bird fly if its left wing is stronger than its right wing?"

Men and women are different.  Different energies, different strengths and weaknesses, different 'a lot of things'.  Equal value, but different.  When we stop fighting 'the war between the sexes' and approach each other with mutual respect and dignity, THEN we may just find balance.

fergus



MHOO314 -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (4/2/2006 7:24:18 AM)

Well, let's see if I can present My feelings on the matter---first of all I'd like to separate Dommes from Female Supremacy---to understand the L/life, one must constantly separate generalizations and unfortunately be a tad OCD about clear statements--Female Dominantion and Female Supremacy do NOT go hand in hand---yes there are many Dommes who espouse, defend and preach Female Supremacy---that is their schtick and after all we do preach that the L/life is tolerant--so ok that's their thing--right or wrong, it is what it is--there are also others ( like Myself and many of My Sisters in the Life) the believe in being Dominant in the relationship--totally dfferent aspect.
 
Now as for "titles"--there are no laws against what one calls themselves--I will not get on My soap box about priests being called "father" and their shenanigans--which is IMHO a far site worse than "kneel you male worm"--
 
I happen to be Lady Amethyst in the Wiccan community--I am Mistress to the boy, but when he whispers, "you are my Goddess"--it makes the world spin--
 
Yes, there are the extremists, but we are all at the end of the day sadly human, injustice, fraud, and deceit reside whether one is called Dom/me or Mr/Ms--be strong, be wise, use your spirituality to guide your actions and all will be well.



fergus -> RE: Goddess Worship Through a Pagan Subs Eyes (4/2/2006 7:37:22 AM)

Right on MH :)

I think I also has difficulty with those whose craft names, ren faire personae, and D&D character are all the same ;)

fergus



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