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RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 4/6/2006 5:48:54 PM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline
Everyone has the right to say No, be they Dom/sub/switch/slave/male/female/pink with yellow spots. You are a person and a human being whatever else you may be, don't let anyone push you into anything that you are not 100% happy with.

(in reply to mathiasdomm)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 4/7/2006 4:18:11 AM   
treazure


Posts: 12
Joined: 4/5/2006
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I am going to answer just the original question......

When should a submissive be submissive?? 

When she feels it deep in her heart and not a second before.

treazure

(in reply to shivvy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 4/7/2006 4:22:25 PM   
zenditz


Posts: 13
Joined: 6/2/2005
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thanks everyone,

i know i didn't like post this question, but it's been something i've been dealing with a lot lately.  Like shivvy most of my D/s experience has been in real life, and just like recently i've started looking online for a new Dom.  And i've just like been totally blown away by how rude so many come across as.  Like as if i'm like Their's just because they instant messaged me, or sent me one message.  To be honest it was begining to make me feel kinda like hopeless and nervous about online D/s.  i like get this feeling that like a lot of online Doms are like expecting me to just submit, roll-over, and play dead.

When like my real life experiences have always evolved much more rationally, slowly and organically... and i've always been treated with respect in real life.  E/everyone's advice has made me feel a lil better and more than a lil sad, cause now it's like I know I'm not like the only sub being treated this way online.

Thanks again,
    Katie

(in reply to mathiasdomm)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 4/8/2006 12:19:04 AM   
optrists


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IMHO whenever i make a request for pics, phone numbers and such i do it partly because it sets the boundaries on the conversation if the other person is happy to send them it means i can push the limits a bit further if not i have to backtrack to find somewhere comfortable for us both.

as a Dom i like to push the limits but the sub/slave sets them to begin with anyway

(in reply to zenditz)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 4/8/2006 1:54:54 AM   
CanadianGuy


Posts: 219
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This thread got me thinking.  I'm discouraged and annoyed at how many people are using this site as a means to "pick up chicks" or simply advertise themselves in some way.  It's too bad it wasn't possible to remove those people somehow, and keep the database free from the CRAP that's out there.  Guys slap a "dominant" label on themselves and fire off 100 messages to anything labelled "submissive", ordering them to produce naked pictures for them to jerk off over.  This is not only abusive and shitty behaviour - it's also reflecting poorly on the smaller group of REAL dominants who are here.  This poor girl (the OP) has been frightened by all the idiots that it's unlikely she'll be able to accept or recognize a real person when he comes to her - if she manages to even read his message through the rest of the spam and idiocy.  I'm disheartened and upset, but that doesn't mean I don't think this site is great.  I just hope that people aren't totally disillusioned and that some of them are able to see through the trickery and blatant misuse of the system, and find the worthwhile things and people that are here.

(in reply to mathiasdomm)
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RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 4/8/2006 5:32:39 AM   
sublizzie


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CanadianGuy said: This poor girl (the OP) has been frightened by all the idiots that it's unlikely she'll be able to accept or recognize a real person when he comes to her - if she manages to even read his message through the rest of the spam and idiocy. 

I don't think it's that difficult to figure out the difference after a while. It takes time, but eventually you realize that there are a few real people out there and a lot of wankers. She has one up in having been in a real-time relationship because she can compare the reality with the fantasy some of these guys are spinning.

It amazes me how many "doms" will demand instant gratification. I've learned to ignore them or treat them the way my mentors keep telling me to. It's taken a while but I've realized I'm worth WAY more than settling for someone whose only value is a small piece of their anatomy, which is not located anywhere near their mouth. I have a brain. I'd like to use it for someone who is also in possession of one. When they show no signs of one in their heads, I pass them by. She'll learn to do the same thing.

(in reply to CanadianGuy)
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RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 4/9/2006 9:27:28 AM   
truesub4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Sending nude pictures to strangers is never a good idea.  Until my Master owned me, he could ask things of me, but  he said it was my choice to do them or not as he had no claims on me.  A lot of self professed dominants will try to take advantage of someone young and new. Just because you are submissive does not mean you must submit to anyone who calls himself/herself dominant.  In doing so, you will be trying to please everyone, which is impossible, and it will only leave you feeling confused and unhappy.

Any dominant worth talking to will understand your concerns, and would probably not be asking for nudes right away.  If someone you don't know asks and you say no, and he insists, it is best to turn away.  A good dominant will spend time teaching and developing, and will listen to questions and concerns, particularly in the beginning. 

Spend time here.  Read posts.  They will help you understand different points of view in this life of BDSM.  Absorb information and ask questions.

Best of luck to you.




LOL Owned... here's one of those time we agree again. Nicely put gal.


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 4/9/2006 2:31:43 PM   
zenditz


Posts: 13
Joined: 6/2/2005
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i like agree with E/everyone,
 
i mean i'm still like new to like online meetings when like looking for my Dream Dom, and so far most have just been like bad... but i'm more prepared now... like of course i knew it was gonna take a while to find someone i really click with.  To me, i do like most have like already said.  i start our meeting off like i would any like first conversation... i mean it's like not even like a first date yet.  When i get asked about my limits, or start getting demanded to do something like the first conversation... and like especially if they like start asking for pictures like right away, than i like know right away that well this one's not going any where and thats ussually that, and i've only been talking with online Dom's for like three days now, but thanks to everyone's advice, and common sence... and mostly like because i'm like coming from like having quite a bit of real life D/s experience before like getting online... at least i know i can have a wonderful Dom in my life... although i still have doubts about like meeting my Dream Dom online... i'm like so totally not the kinda sub who settles.
 
Take care & good luck,
        Katie

(in reply to mathiasdomm)
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RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 4/10/2006 3:10:17 AM   
orfunboi


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Joined: 10/22/2005
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"i have been speaking to a very kind lady in America, who suggested i say "i am a submissive, but i’m not Your submissive." i feel like that’s really good advice, and it’s wot i feel like saying. But would a Dom accept that? "
 
If he is not your Dom, he better accept it or its called assault. Don't ever let anyone tell you, you have to do anything you don't want to. .
 
That said, i have a question....your profile states your only 20, so how old were you, when you were collared to your first master? Inquiring minds and all that.....


(in reply to shivvy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 4/22/2006 2:10:44 AM   
shivvy


Posts: 746
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From: Ireland, living in Kent, England.
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Hello, me again
 
i just wanted to say thank you to everybody who has taken the time and trouble to write on here and to say thank you for your kind words of advice and support.
 
luv,
 
shiv
xx

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xxx
Owned and collared by SavageFaerie and Master P

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RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 4/22/2006 2:27:04 AM   
RavenMuse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: shivvy
i don’t want to be disrespectful or disobedient and at the same time, i don’t wanna seem like a whinging winnie, but i learnt all i know real time, and i had my Master to look after me then. i have respectfully (i hope) said no, and explained why, but wot should i do if a Dom insists?
 
i have been speaking to a very kind lady in America, who suggested i say "i am a submissive, but i’m not Your submissive." i feel like that’s really good advice, and it’s wot i feel like saying. But would a Dom accept that?


Any Dom that is worth submitting to wouldn't need to accept it as that would already be the case in his own mind dear. Before you have submitted to someone then they are just another blip on the radar, sure there maybe potential with some but there is no obligation and no right for them to treat you in a manner you find you are uncomfortable with. They can make requests, but can not make demands.... well OK they can try but in such cases it would be an appropriate responce to dispence with politeness and tell them unequivicaly to stop or get lost.

There are many types of people out there sweetie, many of whom have decided for one reason or another to pin the lable 'Dom' to their chest. It doesn't mean they are worthy of the lable nor obligate you to behave in any particular manner. That only comes once you find one you can build trust with and find yourself wanting to kneel at his feet and feel his collar on your neck.

That you normaly respond politely is good, but don't let that become a problem in saying no, that way is a slippery slope to all kinds of unpleasent experiences.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to shivvy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 5/4/2006 1:30:39 AM   
shivvy


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Joined: 3/25/2006
From: Ireland, living in Kent, England.
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Thank You RavenMuse Sir for Your kind advice. Probably like many on here, i am used to dealing with blokes in a vanilla setting, but i just feel like on here, as in any D/s situation really, i just feel uncomfortable saying no to a Dom, because it just seems wrong to me and goes against the grain.

In the "real world" i'm just another face in the crowd. But on here, everybody knows wot i am. And whilst that gives me a certain amount of freedom to just be me, i feel like it also binds me to a certain code of ethics/rules (if that's the right way to put it). i would really like to do as i'm asked and not upset nobody, and i neva had a problem with doing as i woz told before, but i just wish people would show some understanding sometimes.

But aye, i realise now that if a "Dom" won't take a gentle No as an answer, then i just gotta be stronger and say No more forcefully.

So again, thank You Sir for Your kind advice.

shiv.


< Message edited by shivvy -- 5/4/2006 1:31:11 AM >


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(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´ ¸¸.•¨¯`•.εΐз¸¸.·*´¯`v´¯`*·.¸¸ـ εΐз ~*luv shivvy*~ ـ εΐз

xxx
Owned and collared by SavageFaerie and Master P

(in reply to RavenMuse)
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RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 5/4/2006 6:50:32 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline
shivvy,

I am going to a heavy S&M party with strict rules of protocol where all submissives will be considered slaves and treated as such.  The intent is to bring people to do really extreme hardcore stuff. 

Despite the above, if you didn't bring her, don't touch her, don't harass her, don't do anything but be polite.

So if that level of protocol is in effect at such an extreme event (hopefully extreme) then feel free to delete emails without responding, ask for apologies, ask questions, etc.  You owe me nor any other dominant, domme, top, whatever, anything till you CHOOSE to submit to them.

If I was a submissive, I would state what I would like the first response to be like.  Not an iron clad rigid request but something like "if you desire to inspire me, tell me what S&M books you have read and why you did or did not like them, what you think of public play, and what is your favorite hobby, or perhaps tell me your best and worst traits"

Gives a guy a bit of room to show off, weeds out the wankers (or at least makes them easier to delete), and by what you ask, shows potential suitors what you are like.

(in reply to shivvy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 5/4/2006 11:09:47 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
shivvy,

One way i found to refuse to do something without sending a good potential friend or partner off  is to explain that some things you want to keep for your eventual Dom or Master..  "How would You feel if i came under You, but You thought i had been web-camming with every guy i talked to over the last 8 months?  or sent them all nude pics?  i want my future partner to know i have saved certain things for Him alone."  

Something in that makes sense to even the wankers,  and also, when and if you do cross over to feeling comfortable about such things, it sends a clear signal to the man you're talking to that you are moving forward with him in a way you haven't with others.

That should be the first dom-space feeling he should get from you anyway, that you're sharing / doing / offering something nobdy else is getting

(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 5/4/2006 11:36:37 AM   
bia


Posts: 8
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
Hi shivvy,

There has indeed been a lot of good advice given here. I'll probably be repeating it in my own way, but maybe I can give you a few other things to consider as well.

The internet has been great for bringing BDSM to the world, to those who might be in rural areas and not have access to local BDSM communities, or who may not be able to locate real time resources. On the other hand, the internet has been absolutely horrible for bringing some real abusive people into BDSM.

Absolutely anyone can sign up for an account on here and say they are a sub, a slave, a Mistress, a Master. You don't have to pass a test to call yourself a Master, like you do to drive a car. There also aren't any police here looking for erratic drivers, checking to see if they are indeed licensed to operate a motor vehicle, or more to the point, looking for and finding fakes, players, abusers and either fining them or tossing them in jail.

If there were, can you imagine how many Masters and probably subs too would be behind the BDSM prison wall???

In my journal, I write about the audacious emails, the jaw-dropping, I can't believe someone wrote this type of email. Part of why I write about them is because it serves as a reminder to me when I am feeling pressure to be submissive to someone who isn't really dominant, or who doesn't have my interests at heart, that I can say, "No, thanks". I also write about it so that maybe the real Dominants out there can see what tacking submissive or slave next to your name attracts, so that maybe They understand why a girl would want to proceed cautiously, and why a girl may not take every man at his word when he says he is a Dom. And the last motive for writing about those emails, is so that other women, women who may not have a support network, women who may be new or women who just need a reminder will see that they don't have to tolerate abusive emails just because they are submissive.

I am sure, that there are a number of people in here who claim to be either Dominant or submissive simply because of their sexual desires for bondage. "I like to tie women up, therefore I am a Dom", or "I like to be tied up or blindfolded, therefore I am a slave." Things that do not a Dom or sub make...

So the long and short of all of that is that just because someone lists themselves as a Dom or a sub, doesn't mean they know the first thing about mastering their own self, let alone someone else. Nor does it mean they know the first thing about serving their Owner... (I have to cast both perspectives, I don't want anyone to think I am anti-Doms! That would be just soooo wrong!! :)  )

So if you bear in mind that MasterWRAPEMUPTIGHT (this is a fictional name any semblance to an actual screen name in here is completely unintentional) might say he is a master, he may be in actuality, an underage punk, a woman pretending to be a man, a man who has no clue what BDSM is about but wants to get off, a psycho... (some people in locked mental hospitals DO have access to the internet!) or a million other things, none of which may be Dominant... If you bear all of that in mind, then you may find it easy NOT to be submissive to every unproven screen name.

And you know what else, it doesn't make you a bad sub to be choosey, to make your own decisions while you are unowned. It makes you a smart and safe sub.

Yesterday, I got an email from a man in here who says he is a dom. I had never spoken to him before. Never, not once. His exact email was, "When can we get together?" No "hi, how are you."  No "My name is blah blah blah." No "I saw your profile and wanted to introduce myself" Just, "When can we get together?".

Now after the thread about what do submissives want in a master, and the comments about subs not responding to emails... I was feeling a bit guilty. So instead of assuming he was asking when we would physically meet, I decided to do the benefit of the doubt thingy and believe maybe he meant, meet online in yahoo or MSN.  So I asked for clarification.

Oh no, he was quite clear. He wanted to know when I would meet him physically, in real life. Is anyone else as astonished as I still am? When I told him that he was making some gross assumptions especially given that I had never talked to him and that I didn't even know his real name, he quickly apologized, told me his first name and asked me to tell him about myself.

"Thanks, but no thanks." Maybe I am wrong, but my impression is that this man doesn't have the first clue about being a Dominant. So why should I be submissive to him? Why should I obey him? Why would I be stupid enough to give him control over me when he knows absolutely NOTHING about me? Just because I am not going to be submissive and easily manipulated by every Tom, Dick and Harry who claim to be masters, doesn't make me any less of a submissive. And that is what you have to remember. You aren't a bad subby, you aren't being a princess subby, just because you are doing what is necessary to look out for yourself.

Unfortunately, it seems, there are those who see the title submissive or slave and they automatically think that means the person is saying they are there to get said master off. Just because I would be my Master's slut, doesn't mean I'm going to drop my jeans and screw everyone. A real Dom won't email you demanding nude photos, demanding that you meet him and start obeying him the second he sends his first email. And you aren't being a fake sub just because you recognize that.

It gets very confusing when you do start exchanging emails, before you get serious or even to the "let's meet" stage. Maybe you are talking to a few different men, trying to see if there is a connection with any of them, and then wham, bam! They all start giving you assignments, or telling you to do this or that. It's hard, and if you just blindly start obeying, you are going to end up in one heck of a jam. Because the reality is that (as someone else said) you can really only obey one Master. Eventually, there will be a conflict, and you could end up losing the One who was real.

If a Dom, who is not your Dom, cannot accept it when you say you are uncomfortable doing something, or that you are not prepared to give him your obedience which comes along with your submission, then ummm... can you really trust him to do what is best for you?

You don't have to be submissive to strangers. And just because you aren't being submissive doesn't mean you are being rude. You don't have to subject yourself to abusive emails, or demands from strangers to still be a sub or a slave. That is a preposterous notion, remember that so that you can have a long, and healthy experience in this lifestyle.

And, if the pressure gets to much from any one, if they make you uncomfortable and won't respect your wishes, then you can report them and/or block them from further contacting you.

Stay safe, shivvy, I'm sure your future Master would want that!

-smiles warmly-

I wish you well,
bia


(in reply to CrappyDom)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 5/4/2006 3:26:27 PM   
babysburnin


Posts: 421
Joined: 2/16/2006
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The "trick" to being submissive is finding someone who deserves your submission. 

You are young, it will take time.  You are still feeling "in-love" with Richie, you are used to how things were with him - he taught you.

A good Master/Sir/Dom will be a "Good Person" and not take advantage of you.  I personally believe that submission IS A GIFT to another who has been proven worthy.  Your submissive nature should not taint your inner-strength as an individual who makes good choices for YOU.

It's good to hear that your daugther comes first - as it should be.  

_____________________________

-Babysburnin

"Love is, above all else, the gift of oneself."
- Jean Anouilh

"The highest proof of virtue is to possess boundless power without abusing it."
- Lord Macaulay

(in reply to shivvy)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 5/11/2006 6:01:00 AM   
shivvy


Posts: 746
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: Ireland, living in Kent, England.
Status: offline
hello again everybody.
 
i just wanted to say thank you mavis, that's a really grand idea. Next time it happens, i might use that

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(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´ ¸¸.•¨¯`•.εΐз¸¸.·*´¯`v´¯`*·.¸¸ـ εΐз ~*luv shivvy*~ ـ εΐз

xxx
Owned and collared by SavageFaerie and Master P

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 5/11/2006 6:24:22 AM   
shivvy


Posts: 746
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: Ireland, living in Kent, England.
Status: offline
and thank you too bia, wot you wrote woz spot on. so thank you.
 
and babysburnin.

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(¯`v´¯)
`*.¸.*´
¸.•´¸.•*¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´ ¸¸.•¨¯`•.εΐз¸¸.·*´¯`v´¯`*·.¸¸ـ εΐз ~*luv shivvy*~ ـ εΐз

xxx
Owned and collared by SavageFaerie and Master P

(in reply to bia)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: When should a submissive be submissive? - 5/11/2006 8:01:40 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
I will say this in as few as words as possible... You do not owe strangers on the internet ANYTHING. People get the respect they earn, and if they are not respecting you then I would hit the block button... PERIOD It has nothing to do with being not submissive enough, it is about keeping yourself safe and finding the right partner for you

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to shivvy)
Profile   Post #: 39
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